Mob boss Natale in hot water with ex-mistress Book , Movie

[Cheech]

again dead on. 99% was all bullshit/ maybe the biggest disappointment i have had reading a book. i was expecting a big inside look at merlino and crew and got none

[B.]

As well as his claim that only John Gambino backed Stanfa as boss and the actual bosses wouldn't recognize him because he was made in Sicily.

This is one I'm curious about.

I believe it was Toto who posted about Nino Giuffre's testimony where he said John Stanfa attended his making ceremony in Caccamo and stood in as his sponsor, which indicates Stanfa was a member or at least "recognized" by the Caccamo family.

Angelo Bruno inducted Al Amedeo into the Philadelphia family, then later Amedeo moved to Sicily and supposedly transferred to the Sicilian mafia (of which his father was a member), so there is a precedent for Philly-Sicily transfers. Bruno also recognized his Sicilian cousin Sinatra as well as Rosario Gambino's membership even though Gotti apparently didn't recognize Gambino's membership. It wouldn't shock me if Stanfa was made in Sicily and allowed to transfer into the Philadelphia family under Bruno.

The Stefanelli tapes indicate that the Lucchese family still recognized Scarfo as official boss of Philadelphia as recent as the early 2010s. So that's one family that likely didn't recognize Stanfa as boss. Have any of the high-ranking NY CWs from the early 90s like Gravano, D'Arco, Sessa, Vitale, etc. mentioned anything about Stanfa?

Serpiente over on BB (I know, big deal, right?) doesn't even think Merlino is made if Stanfa was the one that made him. But he does raise an interesting point in that if NY didn't recognize Stanfa as boss and Stanfa wasn't acting in an official capacity for Scarfo, could he make someone? I think it falls into that Galante category wherein enough made people recognized him as boss that it legitimized his ceremonies.

Not to mention, the NY families currently not only recognize Merlino as made but as boss of Philly.

That's an interesting point about Merlino's status. The same would also apply for all of the other guys Stanfa made, though, like Massimino and Lucibello. What sort of legitimizes Stanfa is that Anthony Piccolo and the other family leaders recognized him as boss, attended ceremonies, etc. We know from the Goodfella tapes that Sparacino initially didn't support Stanfa as boss but he did fall in line eventually.

Seems the Luccheses didn't recognize Merlino either, if I remember right. It's confusing, though, because one reason for Scarfo Jr.'s demotion was him trying to take over Philly, but at the same time the Luccheses (or certain Lucchese leaders, i.e. Amuso?) were standing behind Scarfo Sr. What I know of the situation is all very vague, though -- maybe Chucky remembers or has seen more on this.

[Pogo The Clown]

Doesn't look like the Genovese and Gambinos recognized Merlino or Ligambi in the early 2000s either. Evidently that must changed by the mid 2000s.


Pogo

[phatmatress777]

I can understand in the olden days this being a big deal when the commison was running and calling shots but since they commison really doesn't govern nationally like it used to ... is it really a big deal if one fam doesn't recognize him ? Other powerful capos recognize him enough to work with him...


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[B.]

Doesn't look like the Genovese and Gambinos recognized Merlino or Ligambi in the early 2000s either. Evidently that must changed by the mid 2000s.


Pogo

What was the situation with them? I remember the story about Pete Caprio conspiring against Ligambi/Mazzone/Borgesi (I believe it was those three) with backing from individual soldiers in NJ, but did anything specific come out about the Genovese/Gambinos not recognizing the leadership?

On the Stefanelli tapes, it sounded like John Gambino was only going through the motions in order to keep channels open with Philly. Stefanelli recorded himself in the bathroom with Gambino during the meeting saying some good things about Ligambi, and from what I remember Gambino echoed those good things, but said something about regrettably not being able to help him. The vibe I took from it was that it was beyond his control.

[scott22]

Answering previous question about GA and the Natale book project.

This book was brought to George A, who passed. I was on board briefly, but bailed over "philosophical differences" in the approach to the material and compensation. They brought on McShane at the end and he wrote it.

Scott Burnstein

[scott22]

I wanted the bulk of the story to take place in the 1990s, they obviously went in another direction.

SMB

[scott22]

I actually think there was another author on board before me too, now that I'm thinking of the timeline.

Scott Burnstein

[Pogo The Clown]

Doesn't look like the Genovese and Gambinos recognized Merlino or Ligambi in the early 2000s either. Evidently that must changed by the mid 2000s.


Pogo

What was the situation with them? I remember the story about Pete Caprio conspiring against Ligambi/Mazzone/Borgesi (I believe it was those three) with backing from individual soldiers in NJ, but did anything specific come out about the Genovese/Gambinos not recognizing the leadership?

Nothing concrete. There was the Caprio conspiracy with Gambino Soldier Anthony Proto and Genovese Vito Alberti. There were also articles from the period mentioning how they weren't recognized and how the Genovese family wanted to put their own guy in to run things (I remember Tino Fiumara being named). Of course that could have just been media BS. However I don't think those two would join in a conspiracy to murder the administration of another family all on their own without at least some tacit approval (even if unofficially) from their own families. Not long after this period it came out that the Genovese had set up their own sports book right in Philly so there was probably something to it.


Pogo

[phatmatress777]

I wanted the bulk of the story to take place in the 1990s, they obviously went in another direction.

SMB

That's a damn shame I'm sure you would have done a lot better than what was put out. Almost sounds like this book should be labeled as fiction.


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