How important was Russel Bufalino really?

[Pogo The Clown]

I thought it was always Frank Costello who was rumored to have been the one to tip FF the cops as payback against Genovese? Though personally I think, like Raven said, that the cops just came upon it by accident.


Pogo

[willychichi]

I thought it was always Frank Costello who was rumored to have been the one to tip FF the cops as payback against Genovese? Though personally I think, like Raven said, that the cops just came upon it by accident.


Pogo

I read an old article in the NY Daily News a few days ago by a retired SUNY Professor named Mike La Sorte who said that the cops overheard Barbara Jr. in a local hotel a few days before the meeting booking a bunch of rooms and may have decided to stake the place out. La Sorte also offered another theory that he gave less credence too and that was it was Lansky who tipped off the State Police to undermine Vito Genovese grab for power. It's probably more likely that they just stumbled across all the activity in that quiet little town.

[faffy444]

during that point in history there where a lot of illegal wiretaps all across the country listening in mobsters everywhere. ive always believed that somewhere along the line law enforcement knew of the meeting in advance but because of the illegal listening never had a concerted effort to formally interupt the festivities. there really wasnt any basis legally to raid the barbara home. its why all those captured in the raid had the charges dropped against them.

[Dwalin2014]

during that point in history there where a lot of illegal wiretaps all across the country listening in mobsters everywhere. ive always believed that somewhere along the line law enforcement knew of the meeting in advance but because of the illegal listening never had a concerted effort to formally interupt the festivities. there really wasnt any basis legally to raid the barbara home. its why all those captured in the raid had the charges dropped against them.

This can explain why the convictions weren't upheld and why only a part of them were convicted, but what I don't get is why didn't they bring enough cops to capture ALL of them, if they knew about the meeting beforehand? At least they could identify everybody, make conclusions about the importance of each one, based on who did attend and who didn't etc. Instead, they let many escape through the "net", not being there enough cops to block everybody, so the identities of many of the attendees can be only guessed.

[faffy444]

what probable cause did they have to raid in the first place ? none.

[Ed]

A relation of La Torre(maybe his son?) appears to have fed the FBI Intel about the Bufalino's in the mid-late 1960s. He identified members and gave some background history on the crime family. He also helped the FBI recover some stolen property. The informant was an associate.

[Dwalin2014]

what probable cause did they have to raid in the first place ? none.

I understand, but if they decided to do it anyway, they could at least have done it professionally and with good results (by capturing all of them and making a complete list for the future dossier). If the raid wasn't legally sanctioned, I understand, but they could either not do it at all or do it good. What was the point of doing it in a sloppy manner, with relatively few cops who were therefore unable to hold all the present mafiosi?

[Eld]

Calogero "Colagio" Consagra
* Soldier
* Born 1870
* Immigrated 1903
* Early black hander, active in 1910's

Luigi "Louis" Consagra
* Soldier
* Born 1891
* Immigrated in 1909
* Relative of Calogero
* Joined him in the Black Hand

Louis Consagra was an FBI informant in the late 1950's. He died prior to 1966.

[OlBlueEyesClub]

during that point in history there where a lot of illegal wiretaps all across the country listening in mobsters everywhere. ive always believed that somewhere along the line law enforcement knew of the meeting in advance but because of the illegal listening never had a concerted effort to formally interupt the festivities. there really wasnt any basis legally to raid the barbara home. its why all those captured in the raid had the charges dropped against them.

This can explain why the convictions weren't upheld and why only a part of them were convicted, but what I don't get is why didn't they bring enough cops to capture ALL of them, if they knew about the meeting beforehand? At least they could identify everybody, make conclusions about the importance of each one, based on who did attend and who didn't etc. Instead, they let many escape through the "net", not being there enough cops to block everybody, so the identities of many of the attendees can be only guessed.

If I'm not mistaken, none of the attendants whom were taken into police custody were never formally charged of anything. So there wouldn't be any needs for convictions.

[Dwalin2014]

during that point in history there where a lot of illegal wiretaps all across the country listening in mobsters everywhere. ive always believed that somewhere along the line law enforcement knew of the meeting in advance but because of the illegal listening never had a concerted effort to formally interupt the festivities. there really wasnt any basis legally to raid the barbara home. its why all those captured in the raid had the charges dropped against them.

This can explain why the convictions weren't upheld and why only a part of them were convicted, but what I don't get is why didn't they bring enough cops to capture ALL of them, if they knew about the meeting beforehand? At least they could identify everybody, make conclusions about the importance of each one, based on who did attend and who didn't etc. Instead, they let many escape through the "net", not being there enough cops to block everybody, so the identities of many of the attendees can be only guessed.

If I'm not mistaken, none of the attendants whom were taken into police custody were never formally charged of anything. So there wouldn't be any needs for convictions.

I understand, but my point was that, if they managed to temporarily hold everybody, they could make a COMPLETE list of the attendees, which would be very useful for making a dossier to use for future investigations, since only the key figures of the national-scale Mafia attended (and only several minor figures like drivers or a few bodyguards I think), and it would have been very useful for law enforcement to know the identity of EVERY major player (or almost every major player) of those times. Even if somebody, like Carlos Marcello or Raymond Patriarca for example, didn't attend, the list would have still been useful. I mean, to carry out the raid successfully and not letting anyone escape would have been useful for information purposes, not for an indictment or a trial, that's what I meant...

[OlBlueEyesClub]

There arent any law enforcement produced lists around. But there many made by researchers whom have done a pretty decent job, I think, of tracking attendants.

[Dwalin2014]

There arent any law enforcement produced lists around. But there many made by researchers whom have done a pretty decent job, I think, of tracking attendants.

I agree, the later reconstructions are good. What I meant is that, from the perspective of the police themselves, if they really knew of the meeting beforehand, it's weird they did a relatively poor job of doing the raid, by not sending enough people. If they decided to do it, having probable cause or not, at least they could have gotten results (information) to use already back then, by "netting" all the attendants and filing a list to start a dossier and to understand who was in charge even before Valachi's testimony. On the other hand, some people say Valachi's testimony was already "put in his mouth" in some parts and really came from other sources, like Scarpa for example. Don't know which is correct...

[JCB1977]

So I'm trying to figure out how important and influential Bufalino really was and I'm curious on other posters' opinions. Finally got around to reading "The Quiet Don" which I didn't find to be that great which is what prompted me thinking about it. So I went through "I Heard You Paint Houses" again and the 1980 Pennsylvania Crime Commission Report(and if you haven't read it and are interested in Pennsylvania organized crime it is a must read) again and even Fratianno's claimed relationship with him in Last Mafioso and I'm kind of conflicted on how influential he really was. I'll point out that I understand that Fratiannos was a name dropping liar who embellished his entire life and I personally believe he committed perjury while testifying. And "I Heard You Paint Houses" was horribly researched and Sheeran was clearly lying about a great many things in that book. And I don't for a second believe the theory in the Pennsylvania Crime Commission report that Bufalino was running his family and the Buffalo and Genovese families. And the theory that Bufalino was involved in the Kennedy assassination is laughable to me. That being said here are some things that I just find confusing.

Why was Bufalino personally trying to get money from Jack Napoli? And he got recorded doing it And then Bufalino personally asked Fratianno(who he didn't even know) to find Napoli so he could be killed? And I'll grant you that Fratianno may have lied about that, but they also have another guy Stephen Fox who claimed that Bufalino approached him while in jail and also tried to get him to kill Napoli. Doesn't seem smart for a powerful boss.

Pennsylvania Crime Commission in 1980 suggested that Bufalino's organization was possibly more influential than Philly(which to me is ridiculous) and had 35 members. Now they were almost all really really old, but a little over a decade later it seems like the family was just William D'Elia. Now that's fine if they never made any new members, which they probably didn't, but there doesn't even seem to be an organization anymore. I may be mistaken, but it didn't seem to be D'Elia and his associates, it just seemed to be D'Elia. So I don't see how a powerful organization just disappears in that short amount of time.

One thing that does throw me off is Charles Allen's testimony about the murder of Francis Marino the Philadelphia labor organizer in 1976. Now he claims that Bruno said the murder couldn't happen but that Bufalino said to go ahead and do it(this is all via Sheeran by the way). Now I'll grant that's pretty bold to do in another Family's city, but I'm not sure if that's Bufalino being respected enough to pull it off or if that's just people doing whatever they wanted regardless of what Angelo Bruno said. Which is kind of how I feel about how respected Bruno was which is better done in an entirely different thread.

I'll also note that I really don't believe Sheeran's claim on the Hoffa killing at all. I'm not even one of those people who buys the idea that Sheeran is telling most but not all of the story or is intentionally changing certain facts. I just don't buy that. Also claiming the Gallo and Briguglio murders was just too much for me. But that's just me.

So I'm interested in other people's ideas on Bufalino.

Adam

There are a few threads about Bufalino, check them out. And the Quiet Don was pitiful and had many inaccuracies. Not intentional, just not researched properly. Look at this link:


http://m.citizensvoice.com/news/the-ris ... -1.1175897