SonnyBlackstein wrote:Its the same as on the stand, these guys HAVE to sell it, to literally, sell it. So why not throw in a rumour you once heard or hell, even make one up? It'll only sell more books.
But I've heard you go on and on about how absurd it is for murderous rats to get such lenient sentences (and you KNOW I agree with that). But if a guy's making shit up to sell books, what does that say about his testimony on the stand?
@Christie: We're pals, but at the end of the day I realize that writers have to stick together, and I respect that.
"Listen, here's the thing. If you can't spot the sucker in your first half-hour at the table, then you ARE the sucker." ---- Rounders.
SonnyBlackstein wrote:Its the same as on the stand, these guys HAVE to sell it, to literally, sell it. So why not throw in a rumour you once heard or hell, even make one up? It'll only sell more books.
But I've heard you go on and on about how absurd it is for murderous rats to get such lenient sentences (and you KNOW I agree with that). But if a guy's making shit up to sell books, what does that say about his testimony on the stand?
@Christie: We're pals, but at the end of the day I realize that writers have to stick together, and I respect that.
I'm hardly a writer, technically I'm published but it's an article. Big whoop. I can respect authors/writers who have integrity in what they are covering. Something turns out to be wrong based on new information, that's an honest mistake. But Someone's a liar or embellishes, fuck em.
East Bronx wrote:But if a guy's making shit up to sell books, what does that say about his testimony on the stand?
Personally I just dont trust Cicale. Not that I 'trust' any rat, but talking about shit well before your time definitively, coupled with contradicting common wisdom (concerning Canada) leaves this poster with the feeling its publicity for dollars rather than factual content.
East Bronx wrote:But if a guy's making shit up to sell books, what does that say about his testimony on the stand?
Personally I just dont trust Cicale. Not that I 'trust' any rat, but talking about shit well before your time definitively, coupled with contradicting common wisdom (concerning Canada) leaves this poster with the feeling its publicity for dollars rather than factual content.
Aka I think he's mostly full of shit, tbh.
But who knows....
Well put, exactly how I feel.
"Listen, here's the thing. If you can't spot the sucker in your first half-hour at the table, then you ARE the sucker." ---- Rounders.
East Bronx wrote:But if a guy's making shit up to sell books, what does that say about his testimony on the stand?
Personally I just dont trust Cicale. Not that I 'trust' any rat, but talking about shit well before your time definitively, coupled with contradicting common wisdom (concerning Canada) leaves this poster with the feeling its publicity for dollars rather than factual content.
Aka I think he's mostly full of shit, tbh.
But who knows....
Well put, exactly how I feel.
He's an informant, no one should trust him. But when he discusses his story, things aren't always right or wrong, but different shades of both. These guys are professional liars and it's a second nature. And notice all of them display themselves as the smartest, most honorable, best moneymaker in the room... A true researcher should know how to go through these stories and be able to verify what he can, offer what someone says about certain subjects but use restraint by not publishing what can't be verified or too ludicrous. Kuklinsi murdering Jimmy Hoffa made me lose all respect for Phil Carlo as an author and lets me know that he's only serving as a mouthpiece. So when Casso's book came out, I took it with a grain of salt. That's what happens when you become a fraud, it's why I have such a hard time digesting Bill Bonanno's claims.
Chris Christie wrote:These guys are professional liars and it's a second nature. And notice all of them display themselves as the smartest, most honorable, best moneymaker in the room.
Well there you go. Cicale was a fucking brokester. He couldn't even rent a studio apartment without Vinny vouching for him.
"Listen, here's the thing. If you can't spot the sucker in your first half-hour at the table, then you ARE the sucker." ---- Rounders.
Chris Christie wrote:These guys are professional liars and it's a second nature. And notice all of them display themselves as the smartest, most honorable, best moneymaker in the room.
Well there you go. Cicale was a fucking brokester. He couldn't even rent a studio apartment without Vinny vouching for him.
Cicale ain't no Valachi, but had you been his contemporary you probably wouldn't have liked him either, and what's to like at the end of the day? I see your point. For me it's easier to take a 'non-bias approach,' you know some of the players so you're going to have some strong feelings on the subject, I enjoy hearing what you have to say and appreciate it. Your perspective is one of the most interesting on here, no comparison.
Chris Christie wrote:[ A true researcher should know how to go through these stories and be able to verify what he can, offer what someone says about certain subjects but use restraint by not publishing what can't be verified or too ludicrous.
This is whats called 'journalism'.
A skillset lost and replaced by 'info-tainment' and the pursuit of the almighty dollar irrespective of the 'cost'.
East Bronx wrote:But if a guy's making shit up to sell books, what does that say about his testimony on the stand?
Personally I just dont trust Cicale. Not that I 'trust' any rat, but talking about shit well before your time definitively, coupled with contradicting common wisdom (concerning Canada) leaves this poster with the feeling its publicity for dollars rather than factual content.
Aka I think he's mostly full of shit, tbh.
But who knows....
What is the big lies Dom told ? He seems in line with every other rat that comes down the pike IMO, And Why is he classified as a Junkie , Does he shoot dope ? And wasn't Nick Cirillo classified as a junkie , What were these two junkies fighting over the crack pipe , They killed the wrong junkie it looks like... idiots
Last edited by joeycigars on Sun Jan 04, 2015 6:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
East Bronx wrote:But if a guy's making shit up to sell books, what does that say about his testimony on the stand?
Personally I just dont trust Cicale. Not that I 'trust' any rat, but talking about shit well before your time definitively, coupled with contradicting common wisdom (concerning Canada) leaves this poster with the feeling its publicity for dollars rather than factual content.
Aka I think he's mostly full of shit, tbh.
But who knows....
What is the big lies Dom told ? He seems in line with every other rat that comes down the pike IMO, And Why is he classified as a Junkie , Does he shoot dope ?
I don't think he told any lies per se, I think it just generates when he's on the cover next to Capone, Gotti, Gigante and discusses events that occured when he was a child and can't have any firsthand info on the event. But I think alot of it is what Basicano told him. And that's interesting to me. Basciano had a long criminal career.
Chris Christie wrote:
I don't think he told any lies per se, I think it just generates when he's on the cover next to Capone, Gotti, Gigante and discusses events that occured when he was a child and can't have any firsthand info on the event. But I think alot of it is what Basicano told him. And that's interesting to me. Basciano had a long criminal career.
I dont see anything out of line if he tells a little history to go with his updated info , Most would , That cover seems to be Scarpo Ed's doing ,
Well his claims that Rizzuto was read the riot act and the Montreal cell was firmly under Bonanno control and not quasi-autonomous are in stark contrast to the claims made in 'The Sixth Family'.
Now one can believe the journalists who wrote that book and their contention that the Rizzuto organisation was independant based on their research or one can believe Cicale, with his vested interest to fill a book with juicy gossip, that it wasnt.
SonnyBlackstein wrote:Well his claims that Rizzuto was read the riot act and the Montreal cell was firmly under Bonanno control and not quasi-autonomous are in stark contrast to the claims made in 'The Sixth Family'.
Now one can believe the journalists who wrote that book and their contention that the Rizzuto organisation was independant based on their research or one can believe Cicale, with his vested interest to fill a book with juicy gossip, that it wasnt.
I know which one I choose.
Between the two, I'd go with Cicale. Unfortunately, we've seen far too often the propensity by mob authors (even good ones) to exaggerate their topic. I always felt this hype was present in The Sixth Family, hence the reason I always had a hard time buying into the Rizzutos being the "most powerful Mafia group in North America" nonsense.
Cicale really has no reason to lie about what transpired between the Bonannos and Canada after Sciascia was murdered and, considering his close relationship with Basciano who would become acting boss, he was in a position to know. I suspect the main ones who will immediately try to discount what Cicale said are those who have already bought into The Sixth Family narrative.
I think it was very important to Cicale and the publisher to inflate Vinnys power and that of the Bonanno family over the Rizzutos.like when Vinny told Vito to step it up and then Vito sent $100k instead of the normal $20k. Etc. By doing this it Made them look more power and Cicale by proxy etc. Its a better story one that would draw the reader in more . so there is always a reason to lie. $$$
when he's on the cover next to Capone, Gotti, Gigante and discusses events that occured when he was a child and can't have any firsthand info on the event. But I think alot of it is what Basicano told him. And that's interesting to me. Basciano had a long criminal career.