What Family did Joe Valachi REALLY belong to?

[B.]

I'd be curious if Valachi himself ever says in his own words that there were ONLY six crews, or if he simply mentioned six crews and Maas went with the "two of the six crews" because he assumed that was all of them. I don't think the chart can be used as a source for the total number either because at the very least the Catena crew is missing. Jerry Catena is listed as the underboss so Gene Catena would have been capodecina by then and I thought DeCarlo had already been promoted as well. Could be wrong, though. John DeNoia is listed a former captain on the chart and he was a Jersey guy as well. Was he a captain and if so where does he fit in with the succession given that Moretti was the captain and then his crew supposedly split?

I feel very confident in Valachi's info on Manhattan / Bronx and the general "west side", but I've never gotten the impression that he knew much about the family's presence in Brooklyn, Queens, and that direction. Seems possible to me that he overlooked or wasn't aware of the set-up over there. Who took over Augie Pisano's crew for example? I was under the impression Jimmy Generoso was a captain at some point and he had a history with Pisano, but I don't know enough. Who did Mickey Generoso later replace?

Also not totally confident in his knowledge of Jersey even though he popped into Duke's in Ft. Lee frequently. For example he butchers Richie Boiardo's name and doesn't sound too knowledgeable of him, doesn't reference the Catenas much if at all even though Jerry Catena was one of the most powerful members of the family, etc.

On the other hand, I've been reading a doc with a lot of great info from a longtime Milwaukee member informant (might do a breakdown of it soon) and though he doesn't seem knowledgeable about NY at all, he mentions that a capodecina's crew range from being very small to as large as 50 men. There are few families where this would even be in the realm of possibilities and based on this informant's areas of knowledge I think the large crews he's referring to are in Chicago, who he says was a very large family, but I couldn't help but think of this Valachi discussion. This informant seems to be an old timer who has comprehensive knowledge of Cosa Nostra's history as an organization, so the fact that he would say a crew can be as large as 50 men gives some validity to the idea that the Genovese had ~6 massive crews.

Just a side note on something I mentioned earlier, but Valachi says that Tony Bender was promoted to captain VERY soon after being made. Seems Vito Genovese was most likely the captain of that crew, then when he was promoted to underboss it went to his recruit Tony Bender. This would put Tony Bender's induction somewhere around 1930/31.

[B.]

Let's look at the actual crews on the Valachi chart. It's a little confusing the way they are arranged, but this is what I see:

Current captains:
Vincent Alo (Successor to Joseph Doto)
James Angelina (Successor to ?)
Rocco Pellegrino (Probably an original Masseria captain)
Michael Coppola (Successor to Ciro Terranova)
Pasquale Eboli (Successor to Dominick DeQuatro, who Valachi says was (acting?) captain of this crew before Eboli, but this was originally the Strollo/Tommy Eboli crew as we know)
Thomas Greco (Successor to Charlie Luciano? I recall Rick saying that)
Richard Boiardo (Successor to Moretti?)

Former captains:
John Biello (Succeeded by ?)
Gaetano Ricci (Succeeded by ?)
Anthony Carfano (Succeeded by ?)
Generoso Del Duca (Succeeded by Tony Carillo?)
Quarico Moretti (Crew split between Catena/Boiardo)
John DeNoia (Succeeded by ?)

Missing:
Gene Catena (Successor to Jerry Catena)
Ray DeCarlo (? -- not sure if he was promoted yet)
Anthony Carillo (Possibly successor to Del Duca)
Alfred Toriello (? -- mentioned in DeCarlo tapes as possible captain over Frank Celano)

----

Can someone add some insight to this list? Any names that shouldn't be there? Names that are missing?

Even if we were to say that the Valachi chart was 100% correct, how are we supposed to interpret it? The current / former captains don't match up all that seamlessly.

http://66.media.tumblr.com/79a0df75f732 ... 1_1280.jpg

[Antiliar]

-In the Valachi hearings he said that there was a council of consiglieri. Each Family had one consigliere, and the council consisted of the five New York Families plus Newark (he seems unaware of the Elizabeth Family). The boss makes the tie-breaker vote. Valachi also implied that Luciano created the position of consigliere and created the council of consiglieri to protect the soldiers. The council is different than the Commission. (Pages 236-37)
-Genovese Family had 450 to 500 members (p240).
-Valachi lists then current bosses and underbosses (p246).
-John Shanley of the NYPD says they prepared the charts WITHOUT conferring with Valachi (p247) - meaning the chart was ORIGINALLY made without his input, but was later updated to include it (the names with asterisks* were supported by Valachi).
-Jimmy Angelina was closely associated with Augie Carfano (p255).
-Valachi said that there were 2000 active members in the 5 Families plus Newark, plus an additional 2500-3000 inactive/retired members (p271).
-On p289 he says that Joe Bruno was the New England boss before Phil Buccola.
-p293 Mike Miranda is the "counsel."
-p297 - guys who paid Frank Scalise to become members between 1954 and 1958.
-p319 - Frank Costello in 1948 banned narcotics.
-p320 - All the Families banned narcotics in 1957.
-pp320-21 - Chicago paid members not to use narcotics; Genovese Family had 450 members in 1948.
-p324 - Before Genovese was boss he depended on the Tony Bender, Mike Miranda and "Richy Nowak" crews for support.
-p326 - Valachi unfamiliar with Nick Delmore of Elizabeth Family; says Richie Boiardo succeeded Moretti. Says Don Steve was stabbed to death in the 1950s [1955]. Says Steve Badami was from Newark, but he was apparently that Elizabeth boss before Delmore and concurrent with Gaspare D'Amico of Newark. Said Sam Accardi was in Newark in 1931, but connected him to Don Steve (whose name he thought sounded like "Bonanno"). He was very confused about New Jersey. (Also see 232-236)
-pp332-33 - Details about Steve Badami, Monaco and Russo of the Elizabeth (Valachi says Newark) Family.
-pp348-49 - Valachi believed that Gambino and Biondo had Anastasia killed, with Genovese backing them up.
-p364 Chee Gusae for about year, then Costello as acting boss (in the Real Deal he said it was Moretti, then Costello).
-p383 - chart of those ID'd and not ID'd by Valachi.

-I didn't see where Valachi said there were only six crews when he was brought into the Luciano Family.

Free download of the Valachi hearings here:
https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/publications/ ... ?ID=119303

[Angelo Santino]

Ok, ya buncha bitches, there were more than 6 crews. Hah-peeeee!??

Seriously, good arguments and yes, it appears there's evidence for more than 6. Perhaps like you guys said: Mass looked at the chart (compiled without Valachi) and concluded it was 6. I'll go with the evidence. As they say in Mid-World: thankee-sai - HK, B. Antiliar - for clearing that up and spending time bringing me up to speed.

[Pogo The Clown]

Thanks for this info guys. We are learning new things everyday.


To B.


I have Angellino taking over for Carfano.


Pogo

[johnny_scootch]

You don't have to be a capo before being something higher in the organization. Once your made you can hold any position regardless of previous rank or age. Also singular made men can have huge crews of unmade guys and wield vast power even enough to pose a threat to a boss.

A more recent example is Bruno Facciola whom Amuso killed cause he was afraid Bruno could take the family when Amuso went away. Bruno had a big crew of unmade shooters and stick up men plus some made guys were loyal to him. Amuso realized he had a small army and if he took out some key guys he could have taken over and believe me no one would have told him hey your not an official captain or a consigliere yet so you can't be boss.

[AlexfromSouth]

You don't have to be a capo before being something higher in the organization. Once your made you can hold any position regardless of previous rank or age. Also singular made men can have huge crews of unmade guys and wield vast power even enough to pose a threat to a boss.

A more recent example is Bruno Facciola whom Amuso killed cause he was afraid Bruno could take the family when Amuso went away. Bruno had a big crew of unmade shooters and stick up men plus some made guys were loyal to him. Amuso realized he had a small army and if he took out some key guys he could have taken over and believe me no one would have told him hey your not an official captain or a consigliere yet so you can't be boss.

What crew of shooters?who were thay?

[johnny_scootch]

You don't have to be a capo before being something higher in the organization. Once your made you can hold any position regardless of previous rank or age. Also singular made men can have huge crews of unmade guys and wield vast power even enough to pose a threat to a boss.

A more recent example is Bruno Facciola whom Amuso killed cause he was afraid Bruno could take the family when Amuso went away. Bruno had a big crew of unmade shooters and stick up men plus some made guys were loyal to him. Amuso realized he had a small army and if he took out some key guys he could have taken over and believe me no one would have told him hey your not an official captain or a consigliere yet so you can't be boss.

What crew of shooters?who were thay?

Larry Taylor, Al Visconti, the Argentina Brothers

Al D'Arco said "He had about twenty stick up guys around him, tough guys who knew how to take care of themselves."

[AlexfromSouth]

You don't have to be a capo before being something higher in the organization. Once your made you can hold any position regardless of previous rank or age. Also singular made men can have huge crews of unmade guys and wield vast power even enough to pose a threat to a boss.

A more recent example is Bruno Facciola whom Amuso killed cause he was afraid Bruno could take the family when Amuso went away. Bruno had a big crew of unmade shooters and stick up men plus some made guys were loyal to him. Amuso realized he had a small army and if he took out some key guys he could have taken over and believe me no one would have told him hey your not an official captain or a consigliere yet so you can't be boss.

What crew of shooters?who were thay?

Larry Taylor, Al Visconti, the Argentina Brothers

Al D'Arco said "He had about twenty stick up guys around him, tough guys who knew how to take care of themselves."

For real, never read that book..Thank you for that.. All East NY guys? Al Visconti was one of the guys who robbed the big time hotel in 1972 right?

Got any more info on bruno?

[B.]

Ok, ya buncha bitches, there were more than 6 crews. Hah-peeeee!??

Seriously, good arguments and yes, it appears there's evidence for more than 6. Perhaps like you guys said: Mass looked at the chart (compiled without Valachi) and concluded it was 6. I'll go with the evidence. As they say in Mid-World: thankee-sai - HK, B. Antiliar - for clearing that up and spending time bringing me up to speed.

Haha, well I don't think we've proven anything so you might still be right, you 6 crew believing son of a gun.

I looked at Pogo's succession lists to compare and some of the loose ends are explained there, but not all of them. One thing for sure is that they didn't have a lot of crews 1930s through the 1950s, but from where I'm standing it looks more like 9 or 10 possible crews opposed to 6, which is still relatively few crews for such a large family.

Pogo's list has Jerry Catena replacing Willie Moretti, then later on Boiardo taking over that crew and still later it was split between Boiardo, Gene Catena, and Gyp DeCarlo. I was under the impression that Moretti's crew was initially split between Boiardo and Catena, with Gene Catena replacing his brother upon becoming underboss, then DeCarlo later getting promoted to his own separate crew. Boiardo obviously was semi-immortal. If the Valachi chart is correct, John DeNoia was an earlier NJ captain at one point as well but I've never seen that elsewhere... with Moretti occasionally popping in as an acting administration member, I wonder if DeNoia was his acting captain which is why he appears on the list as a former captain. (the chart doesn't differentiate between acting/official and I believe Patty Eboli / Dom DeQuatro were both only acting captains but they appear on the list)

I'm hoping HK takes a look at some of this and weighs in as he knows a lot about the Genovese family circa 1950s/1960s and how some of the guys on the chart might be connected.

[Pogo The Clown]

You could be right B. on the Moretti-Catena-Boiardo split. I don't remember where I originally got it. I was probably operating on the assumption that there were only 6 Crews during the early/mid 50s. Also good point on some of the former Capos listed being Acting Capos.


Pogo

[Antiliar]

I agree with B. Valachi talked about having the support of three crews in the late 1940s: Tony Bender, Mike Miranda, and "Richie Nowak." Richie Nowak has to be Ritchie Boiardo from Newark.

[Snakes]

"Nowak" lol. That has to be Valachi saying "Newark."

[HairyKnuckles]

Ok, ya buncha bitches, there were more than 6 crews. Hah-peeeee!??

Seriously, good arguments and yes, it appears there's evidence for more than 6. Perhaps like you guys said: Mass looked at the chart (compiled without Valachi) and concluded it was 6. I'll go with the evidence. As they say in Mid-World: thankee-sai - HK, B. Antiliar - for clearing that up and spending time bringing me up to speed.

Haha, well I don't think we've proven anything so you might still be right, you 6 crew believing son of a gun.

I looked at Pogo's succession lists to compare and some of the loose ends are explained there, but not all of them. One thing for sure is that they didn't have a lot of crews 1930s through the 1950s, but from where I'm standing it looks more like 9 or 10 possible crews opposed to 6, which is still relatively few crews for such a large family.

Pogo's list has Jerry Catena replacing Willie Moretti, then later on Boiardo taking over that crew and still later it was split between Boiardo, Gene Catena, and Gyp DeCarlo. I was under the impression that Moretti's crew was initially split between Boiardo and Catena, with Gene Catena replacing his brother upon becoming underboss, then DeCarlo later getting promoted to his own separate crew. Boiardo obviously was semi-immortal. If the Valachi chart is correct, John DeNoia was an earlier NJ captain at one point as well but I've never seen that elsewhere... with Moretti occasionally popping in as an acting administration member, I wonder if DeNoia was his acting captain which is why he appears on the list as a former captain. (the chart doesn't differentiate between acting/official and I believe Patty Eboli / Dom DeQuatro were both only acting captains but they appear on the list)

I'm hoping HK takes a look at some of this and weighs in as he knows a lot about the Genovese family circa 1950s/1960s and how some of the guys on the chart might be connected.

I was thinking the exact same thing. DeNoia was a power on the Newark docks and I believe was closely associated with Bobby Manna´s father, Willy Moretti and a possible early Genovese member by the name of Anthony Giantomasi aka "Joe Gent". It could very well be that they were all under Moretti. My take is that Moretti was the first Genovese crew leader and that his crew was split between Jerry Catena and DeCarlo after his murder. Boiardo seems to have been an independent gang leader untill he was made into the Genovese Family and headed his own crew. That´s been my impression but I have no documentation for this so I could be wrong. My knowledge is limited when it comes to the Genovese crews pre 1960. But I assume Gene Catena was upped by the time of Jerry´s elevaton to underboss.

I disagree with the notion that Angellina took over from Carfano. Angellina was based out of Bellmont in the Bronx. Did Carfano have interests in the Bronx? The thing is, almost all of the members in Angellina´s crew were based in the Bronx which makes Angellina taking over from Carfano less likely. Carfano seems to have been a Brooklyn guy mainly with interests also down in Florida. To me, it could be that John Biele was the one who inherited portions of Carfano´s interests in Florida, before he was demoted around 1963. An interesting aspect in all this is that Biele seems to have originally been a Bronx guy.

Frasca took over from Tommy Licata in the early 1950s. His crew was a merger of members based in the Lower East Side and members who had previously belonged to a smaller Brooklyn based crew. It´s possible that Licata originally broke off from Tommy Greco. The members of the two crews were very closely associated way into the 1970s.

Harry Lanza is another crew leader who pops up in the mid 1960s. I don´t know for how long he had been a captain but he had a grip on the Fulton Fish Market once his brother Joe "Socks" was forced out of there. Toddo Marino may have acted as his crew leader occasionally until he took it over after Harry Lanza´s retirement in the early/mid 1970s. After Marino´s death in 1979, the crew went to Tommy Contaldo.

Miranda´s crew was split five ways, like I said in an earlier posts.

[AG777]

- Valachi says "they made a council of six" to "protect the soldier" and prevent soldiers from being killed just because the boss didn't like them. He says if a soldier did anything wrong, he would get a trial where he is judged by seven men. He says he doesn't remember who the seventh man would be, but the extra man was added to prevent there being a tie vote. He says "everyone was happy about the council." Not sure if he is referring to the Commission or something else -- this sounds like something a bit different.

This looks like an example of what I bet he meant to settle a beef. See info in photos. Six men. One of the six men is the advisor or council to represent Damone who is an associate (more like a civilian, he's a singer), against Di Carlo (Buffalo family) Di Carlo wanted Vic Damone dead for breaking off his engagement with Di Carlo's daughter.