What Family did Joe Valachi REALLY belong to?

[B.]

Couple things:

- In the period leading up to Maranzano's death, Valachi said that Bobby Doyle Santuccio was a lieutenant. Valachi uses the term lieutenant exclusively to mean captain, so sounds like Santuccio was a captain in the Maranzano family for a period.

- Dave Critchley seems to think that the council mentioned by Valachi was the same as the council supposedly set up by Luciano after the war that included all of the 5 families' consiglieres. This doesn't make sense, as not only were there six men on the council mentioned by Valachi, but there was also a seventh there to break ties. He also only mentions this council in the context of the Genovese family.

Also is there any evidence that a separate council of NYC consiglieres even existed? One of the Luciano creation myths is that he created the position of consigliere after Maranzano was killed and I believe mentioned in the same breath is the idea that the consiglieres had a council. I think that's mentioned in the Valachi Papers, but it's not mentioned in the available pages of the Real Thing.

[B.]

How could Valachi have been misinformed about how many captains were in his own Family? When the Mafia Charts in 1963 were presented, the Genovese Family was the only group to have the crews broken down with soldiers and capo successors. Now granted he misidentified several people, Caponigro of Philly and Persico of the Colombos come to mind, but he was pretty adamant about there being 6 crews. And several law enforcement officials were surprised by some of the members being "only soldiers" such as Phil Lombardo and testified that they thought he was much higher due to his level of insulation.

Yeah, it's his own family and he was a part of it for 30 years, so if he says there were six captains it's hard to argue otherwise. I suppose it depends on whether he was saying "these guys are captains" vs. "these guys are the ONLY captains". It's clear he wasn't familiar with everything going on in even his own family, but you would still think he'd have a firm handle on the number/identities of captains unless the Genovese purposely kept members in the dark about the structure, which is also possible.

I can't offer anything to back up the belief that there may have been more captains, but to go back to the topic at hand I feel pretty confident that these six captains formed the council, with the consigliere being in the tie breaker role.

[Angelo Santino]

"After the initial purge of the Maranzano "faithful," ... "Luciano moved swiftly to reduce the special tensions that existed in the New York area by establishing consiglieri, or councillors, six men in all, one from each of the five New York Families, and the sixth representing nearby Newark; the function of the councillors was to shield individual soldiers from the personal vengeance of various lieutenants who might have been their targets during the Cast War. The councillors, Luciano declared, had to hear the precise charge against a particular soldier before his death was authorized. If there was a tie in vote, any one boss could sit in and break it. While the councillors were as often as not ignored, their formation at least projected an aura of stability Luciano was bent on achieving."

[Angelo Santino]

How could Valachi have been misinformed about how many captains were in his own Family? When the Mafia Charts in 1963 were presented, the Genovese Family was the only group to have the crews broken down with soldiers and capo successors. Now granted he misidentified several people, Caponigro of Philly and Persico of the Colombos come to mind, but he was pretty adamant about there being 6 crews. And several law enforcement officials were surprised by some of the members being "only soldiers" such as Phil Lombardo and testified that they thought he was much higher due to his level of insulation.

Yeah, it's his own family and he was a part of it for 30 years, so if he says there were six captains it's hard to argue otherwise. I suppose it depends on whether he was saying "these guys are captains" vs. "these guys are the ONLY captains". It's clear he wasn't familiar with everything going on in even his own family, but you would still think he'd have a firm handle on the number/identities of captains unless the Genovese purposely kept members in the dark about the structure, which is also possible.

I can't offer anything to back up the belief that there may have been more captains, but to go back to the topic at hand I feel pretty confident that these six captains formed the council, with the consigliere being in the tie breaker role.

He stated that Genovese could count on only two of the six crews to support him against Costello. He was adamant about six captains and six crews.

One thing I forgot to mention, drawing back to the Valachi Paper quote re. "consiglieri," is that we really don't know when that rank was implemented. I haven't seen that rank in the 1800's in Sicily or America (except for online sources). I always assumed it was just overlooked. Assumptions are the MOAFU's so maybe it was implemented later in the 1930s. I'd like to get Rick's take if he's seen it prior to this time and era. There's some rumors (online of course) that the Colombo family under Profaci didn't have a consig.

EDIT/Update: Salvatore Pollacia was supposed to have been Masseria's consig and if true, is probably the earliest example we have. He would have been demoted in 1931, predating this "Luciano's consiglieri of 6" thing.

[Snakes]

All of the things Valachi divulged were before we had our "modern" idea of what an LCN outfit should look like. I'm not saying this what either one of you are doing but perhaps the definition of "capo" in the Genovese family has evolved over time. Me being more familiar with the Outfit, I can point to their structure as being similar to what Valachi describes. A set of a half dozen or so individuals who were "captains" and operated the top tier leadership positions under the boss/underboss/consigliere. They could have any number of made guys underneath them, many with their own singular crews and who would have been described as "capos" now, but back then may have been under one of the six upper leadership guys and not recognized by Valachi as such. However, to outsiders (law enforcement, press), they simply saw 15-20 individuals in leadership positions within the family and did not differentiate between who were "upper-tier" capos or "lower-tier" capos.

This has led to a lot of confusion within Chicago as any guy with a crew has been described as a "boss." As an example, around 1983 you had the top boss of the family (Aiuppa), the boss of a territory (LaPietra) and the boss of a crew within that territory (Frank Calabrese, Sr.) This is how Chicago has traditionally operated so it's possible that the Genovese operated under a similar organizational structure at one time.

[B.]

"After the initial purge of the Maranzano "faithful," ... "Luciano moved swiftly to reduce the special tensions that existed in the New York area by establishing consiglieri, or councillors, six men in all, one from each of the five New York Families, and the sixth representing nearby Newark; the function of the councillors was to shield individual soldiers from the personal vengeance of various lieutenants who might have been their targets during the Cast War. The councillors, Luciano declared, had to hear the precise charge against a particular soldier before his death was authorized. If there was a tie in vote, any one boss could sit in and break it. While the councillors were as often as not ignored, their formation at least projected an aura of stability Luciano was bent on achieving."

In the Real Thing it's much more vague:

"I sure hope that I would had told him now I find out that they made a council of six, meaning they made a new board. It was to protect the soldier, in ... of his soldiers killed just because he did not like him. It meant that if a soldier did anything wrong he will get a trial and be judged by seven men. I don't remember who the seventh man will be cause it had to be 7 in case there will be a three and three tie then the seventh man will decide the decision. Everyone was glad to hear about the council."

If the part you quoted is true, then the inclusion of Newark explains the missing sixth member of the council. The part about any boss sitting in to break the tie doesn't sound right to me, though... also strange that Valachi would go from not remembering who the seventh man was to firmly saying it was any boss.

He stated that Genovese could count on only two of the six crews to support him against Costello. He was adamant about six captains and six crews.

Did Valachi himself say "two of the six" or did he simply say two and Maas compared that to the six captains that Valachi publicly named? Not sure if that distinction makes sense but hopefully you know what I mean.

I'd assume consigliere came about once the families started to swell in size... I have a hard time believing Luciano created it, but maybe it is one aspect of the myth that is true. Magaddino didn't have a consigliere during his time as boss... not sure about Profaci except for the mentions of Buffa.

[Angelo Santino]

Here is a thread from a few months back detailing the Gen Crew succession. As you can see, Pogo helped tremendously.

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=1392

And here are the pages from the Mass book:

http://s1.postimg.org/m4eg2m1v1/val.jpg


Gen Family lineage:
http://s27.postimg.org/qvsodfvlt/gencrews.gif

[Antiliar]

-Pollaccia is the earliest consigliere that we know of. Not to say there weren't others before him.
-The Justice Dept. made the New York charts from a combination of sources, including Valachi, Scarpa and others, even police detectives. So there's bound to be data that disagrees with Valachi, or is outside his area of knowledge.

Here's a couple more things from "Real Deal":
-One of the reasons he didn't want to go to the Gagliano/Lucchese Family was because there were a couple guys he didn't like, particularly Vincent Rao (p328)
-After Joe Baker was killed Valachi was loaned to the Newark Family for five weeks. He drove a truck while they focused on trying to kill someone important. "I remember his name but it is a hard name and I will try to do the best I can -- his name was Pordanor. He was a rich man and is important in Newark today. [So obviously they failed to kill him - Rick] While I was in Newark I met quite a few boys. I met Tom Bell, Sam Accardo [Settimo "Sam" Accardi], Sam Monicor [Sam Monaco], Don Steve, a fellow named Joe and they were also after Richie [Ritchie Boiardo]. This Richie was shot in the head by Steve Ranelli..."
-Maranzano was explaining how Joe the Boss and "his buddy Peter Morello were killing members and shaking them down and they were killing them without just [cause] and how they sentence Mr. Maranzano and all the Castellamerese to their death without just [cause] he mentions a half dozen other members and former bosses. I remember he mention[ed] a Don Antonio, he was another big boss." This had to be Tony Lombardo of Chicago, which backs up Gentile's version.
-He says that Joe the Boss and Peter Morello were the bosses and replaced by Lucky and Vito, which confirms that Morello was the underboss.
-He says Don Steve was made the boss of Newark and "Sam Monoca" his underboss.
-"Then there was Frank Socolic [Scalise] and I'm not sure who was the underboss, could have been Jimmy Marino from Forham."
-Maranzano then named Angelo Caruso for his own underboss [some people have thought that Maranzano was a Boss of Bosses without being a boss of his own Family, so this refutes that theory.]
-On page 371 Valachi said "It is an honor to be assigned to a boss and not having to account to anyone else." Similar to what Bonanno said about being a captain without a crew.
-On 391 Valachi said there were only three banks (for the numbers racket): Willie Moretti, Steve LaSalle and his brother, and Dutch Schultz/Ciro Terranova. This disagrees with what Bonanno said: each Family had it's own numbers bank. Each bank worked together under a numbers commission that divided the profit between the five Families. Bonanno's man was Salvatore Marangiancina, who was caught embezzling and forced into exile.
-p392 Jerry Ryan [Eboli] was with Joe Adonis. This means Adonis had a crew, contrary to Picasso. On 402 he mentions some other guys who were with Adonis.
-On 427 to 428 Valachi writes about the Council of Six, plus a seventh man for a tiebreaker. At this point he doesn't further identify them.
-p443 As B noted, he said Moretti was acting boss then Costello. No mention of that other guy who's name he couldn't recall at the Senate Hearing.
-p451 Johnnie Roberts used to go to a place at 90 Elizabeth Street. Was this the same place Nick Gentile owned with Terry Burns Didato? If so, small world.
-p460 "Sandie" was Tony Bender's "legal advisor" in the Cosa Nostra.
-p492 Valachi is upset over a police detective who appeared on the Jack Paar Show and said there was no Cosa Nostra and that Valachi didn't say anything they didn't already know. Valachi said that Nick Gentile, Alfonso Attardi and Tough Tony Anastasio are all informers who said there was a Cosa Nostra. Surprised he knew about Anastasio since that info didn't come out until a few years ago.
-p880 Valachi has to explain himself to Sandino about Pip the Blind's suicide in 1947.

[Angelo Santino]

-On page 371 Valachi said "It is an honor to be assigned to a boss and not having to account to anyone else." Similar to what Bonanno said about being a captain without a crew.

There are similar examples in Detroit and Philadelphia.

-p443 As B noted, he said Moretti was acting boss then Costello. No mention of that other guy who's name he couldn't recall at the Senate Hearing.

Where the hell did this Che Gusage/Gusae from then.

-p451 Johnnie Roberts used to go to a place at 90 Elizabeth Street. Was this the same place Nick Gentile owned with Terry Burns Didato? If so, small world.

Yeah.

-p460 "Sandie" was Tony Bender's "legal advisor" in the Cosa Nostra.

-p880 Valachi has to explain himself to Sandino about Pip the Blind's suicide in 1947.

So perhaps, similar to Chicago, each captain might have had their own staff. And if there were six crews with a large pool of members under them, that would make sense. There are more recent examples from the 1980's of Genovese captains retiring to FL and having acting captains serve as on site directors as well also having messengers.

Good stuff.

[HairyKnuckles]

-p392 Jerry Ryan [Eboli] was with Joe Adonis.

A small correction.... Jerry Ryan is actually August Laietta, a member who was later identified as being under Alo which confirms that Adonis´ crew went to Alo (or at least portions of it).

[Pogo The Clown]

Great stuff guys. Any idea who Tom Bell and Pordanor from Newark are?


Pogo

[HairyKnuckles]

I think what B hinted at in an earlier post about "Genovese could at first only count on two of the six crews" may be a correct observation. It´s possible Valachi informed Maas about the two crews and Maas added "of the six crews" in his narrative becuase that was what he thought the Genoveses had (after seeing the Genovese chart shown during the Senate Hearings). I cannot believe the Genoveses only had six crews around that time. In a report dated from 1969, the FBI had 17 individuals listed as Genovese crew leaders in 1960.

[Antiliar]

Great stuff guys. Any idea who Tom Bell and Pordanor from Newark are?
Pogo

This is who we believe are from Newark:
Salvatore Lombardino (to Profaci)
Settimo Accardi (to Lucchese)
Anthony Riela (to Bonanno)
Emmanuele Cammarata (to Profaci)
Joseph Misuraca (to Profaci)
Salvatore Cannela (to Profaci)
Andrew Lombardino (to Profaci)
Gaspare D'Amico (boss, fled to Puerto Rico)
Anthony Dolasco (to Lucchese)
Benjamin Pizzolato (to Lucchese)
Michael Russo (to Lucchese)
Pietro Campisi (to Genovese)
Vincenzo Troia (from Springfield/Rockford; killed)
?Salvatore Chiri (to Gambino)
Stefano Badami - boss (deposed or stepped down 1931, later murdered in 1955; maybe Lucchese after Newark)
Sam Monaco - underboss (killed)
Frank Monaco (not sure if made, Badami's alleged killer in 1955; maybe Lucchese)
Luigi Russo (killed)
Carmine Battaglia (to Genovese)
Aniello Santagata (to Genovese)
Joseph Accardi (to Lucchese)

None of them seem to fit a Tom Bell or Pordanor, so we'll have to work on figuring them out.

-p392 Jerry Ryan [Eboli] was with Joe Adonis.

A small correction.... Jerry Ryan is actually August Laietta, a member who was later identified as being under Alo which confirms that Adonis´ crew went to Alo (or at least portions of it).

Thanks. I've heard of Laietta, but didn't know he was known as Jerry Ryan.

[Angelo Santino]

I think what B hinted at in an earlier post about "Genovese could at first only count on two of the six crews" may be a correct observation. It´s possible Valachi informed Maas about the two crews and Maas added "of the six crews" in his narrative becuase that was what he thought the Genoveses had (after seeing the Genovese chart shown during the Senate Hearings). I cannot believe the Genoveses only had six crews around that time. In a report dated from 1969, the FBI had 17 individuals listed as Genovese crew leaders in 1960.

A 1969 report detailed the administration and captains in 1960? Can you post a link because during the 1960's is when these crews began to splinter inter smaller cells, either in reaction to the FBI's public display or because the boss decided to do so. All the families crews splintered starting in the 60's.

I have no horse in this race and I'm not trying to be Wiseguy-ian about it, but having a hard time believing something isn't the same as having proof countering it. The McClellan charts might have been created using additional sources besides Valachi but Valachi's Family is the most detailed of charts, the only one to break down who was in which crew and which capo succeeded who. I understand that Valachi as a soldier isn't going to know everything going on, but that relates to rackets and deals, there are no secret soldiers or ranks. And the way Valachi described his crew under Tony Bender crew it appears it had its own consig and Vincent Mauro as Bender's "pet" (aid?) so perhaps it may have been a little bit more like Chicago (which in this time- the 60's- is argued to have had 2-300 members divided into 5-6 crews as well) where each Captain had their own staff. Such a setup would allow Costello to be an absentee boss rather than having to preside over 10-15-20 captains.

If there's evidence that there were additional crews that's one thing, but right now all I'm seeing is disbelief that such a large family could have only such a small nucleus and theories/arguments made as to why Valachi/the charts/Maas was actually mistaken to fit the narrative/argument that there were more crews. But unlike most families, we can trace every Gen crew back to six crews during the 1920's, every alleged captain is accounted for.

[HairyKnuckles]

I think what B hinted at in an earlier post about "Genovese could at first only count on two of the six crews" may be a correct observation. It´s possible Valachi informed Maas about the two crews and Maas added "of the six crews" in his narrative becuase that was what he thought the Genoveses had (after seeing the Genovese chart shown during the Senate Hearings). I cannot believe the Genoveses only had six crews around that time. In a report dated from 1969, the FBI had 17 individuals listed as Genovese crew leaders in 1960.

A 1969 report detailed the administration and captains in 1960? Can you post a link because during the 1960's is when these crews began to splinter inter smaller cells, either in reaction to the FBI's public display or because the boss decided to do so. All the families crews splintered starting in the 60's.

The report is dated March 1969 and includes several Families. Around 1962/1963, an informant advised the FBI that Carillo, DeFeo, Tieri, Celambrino and Celano had been made official captains. Apparently they had been acting captains (with crews and not acting for somebody else) who were given the status of offical captains by Vito Genovese around 62/63. They have previously all been under Mike Miranda so my guess is they had been acting since Miranda was made consigliere, gradually taking in members who had previously been under Carfano, Delducca (who died in 1960) and possibly others. In the report these five are listed as captains.

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html ... 3&tab=page