OlBlueEyesClub wrote:And in regards to my Scoppa theory, which I'm now calling "theory #2", second to my initial theory I stated after the Giordano murder, that this may just be a civil war, here's what a poster on RD said...As said, take this with a grain of salt, as I don't know who this guy is or how he gets his information...
eurodave164 wrote:For what it's worth and please take this with a grain of salt, apparently the Scopas, mainly Andrew are becoming more and more prevalent. They have alot of sway and contacts and practically low key besides the occasional mentioned by police.
They are know the have significant influence in the central part of the city, mainly mile end, park ex little Italy and surroundings.
The Scopa's were already filling some of the vacuum as early as 2011/12. This is not really a new development. Daniel Renaud described Andrea Scopa as a 'man of honor', which I interpret as a made member, in a very informative article about several individuals before the return of Vito Rizzuto. He also described Andrea Scopa as being on good terms with Rizzuto.
I'm talking about the whole new leadership alliance and the Scoppas being part of the neutral party who never had any real loyalty to the Rizzuto or Arcadi camp, or ever being in a position of leadership during the Rizzuto era and them possibly being apart of those who are behind all of this. I've never seen any articles mention them as leaders in the Montreal Mafia as early as '11/'12 , or anything about them rising to leadership positions through the murders of those who actually did have leadership roles during Rizzutos time, or being a part of a new alliance, which is exactly what I've been saying, not just them rising through the vacuum. But them possibly being behind all of this and benefitting from it. I haven't seen those articles or discussions until now. I have seen one or two articles which questioned what their future would be after the arrests from Project MAGOT & MASTIF, but nothing that specific. If you could point me to these earlier articles, it'd be greatly appreciated. Heck, I rarely saw anyone on any of these forums mention the Scoppas since Giordano was killed. But its possible I just missed it.
SonnyBlackstein wrote:Desjardines power was only ever as powerful as the Italian he was aligned too/under at the time.
I suppose that is just your opinion, or is it a fact?
Are we not talking about an Italian Organised Crime Mafia Family here?
If my statement is untrue then that would suppose a non Italian (ie an associate) having more power within a family than its made members. And this, without any evidence breaks, all the rules.
So isn't it a safer assumption if one were to assume, as we are all doing, that the assumption be a logical one, ie one that conforms to the rules, rather than an exception?
I'm surprised this is contentious.
It is very much contentious. Daniel Renaud has just confirmed in an article of his that Desjardins still has a lot of clout. He doesn't have any made members under him, never had, and I never claimed that either. His people are a mix of French and Italian Canadians, many of whom are younger guys.
OlBlueEyesClub wrote:And Lupara, no, I'm not mistaking Spagnolo for Stefano Sollecito. Long before it was revealed that Leonardo Rizzuto was indeed a boss in the Montreal Mafia and that there was a co-boss , roundtable thing going on , articles were saying that Spagnolo was the sole boss of the Montreal Mafia and that he was being groomed by Vito before he died and took over with the blessing of the family.
Again, you're confusing Spagnolo with Stefano Sollecito. Spagnolo has never been identified as the sole leader of the Montreal Mafia.
Regarding the status of Dejardins, isn't it also interesting that Fernandez traveled to Sicily and announced himself as being a made member? Could Fernandez have been so ignorant of mafia etiquette and just assumed he could get away without them checking? Not implying Desjardin is a member, there's been instances of nons holding clout and heading almost their own nonmade decina. Chicago, Pittsburgh, Detroit had various examples of this over the past century. It's rare but it occasionally occurs.
OlBlueEyesClub wrote:[I'm talking about the whole new leadership alliance and the Scoppas being part of the neutral party who never had any real loyalty to the Rizzuto or Arcadi camp, or ever being in a position of leadership during the Rizzuto era and them possibly being apart of those who are behind all of this. I've never seen any articles mention them as leaders in the Montreal Mafia as early as '11/'12 , or anything about them rising to leadership positions through the murders of those who actually did have leadership roles during Rizzutos time, or being a part of a new alliance, which is exactly what I've been saying, not just them rising through the vacuum. But them possibly being behind all of this and benefitting from it. I haven't seen those articles or discussions until now. I have seen one or two articles which questioned what their future would be after the arrests from Project MAGOT & MASTIF, but nothing that specific. If you could point me to these earlier articles, it'd be greatly appreciated. Heck, I rarely saw anyone on any of these forums mention the Scoppas since Giordano was killed. But its possible I just missed it.
I base this on a major drug bust that was linked to Salvatore Scoppa and his own arrest in 2012. It was said that he had taken over control of the drug trade in an area in Montreal. There's a thread on the RD forum about this.
Well said Lupara on Desjardins. I too believe he still holds a lot of clout in Montreal and too many count out the French Canadians in all of this too.
Now if it was true Arcadi was only held for 48 hours then this gets even more interesting in who might have clipped Rocco Sollecito.
If I didn't have my case coming up, I would like to come back with you gentlemen when this is over with and really lay the law down what is going on in this country.....
@ Laurentian: are there English versions to the articles you post please?
Thank you.
@ Lupara: Desjardines may have respect on the street but I'm questioning his power within the family. His power came from his once close relationship with Vito and being De Maulo's brother in law. Both are dead.
Ive yet to see any evidence he's formed a solid relationships with anyone else, and as such, at most, he's an associate. Hence my scepticism at his leading 'a faction'.
I'm telling you, if you think Desjardins has no power in Montreal you need to read up and learn about him. Yes being close to Vito and Di Maulo coming up, but Vito has seemed to have let him run his own family within a family. It's like a family of French Canadians with Raynald being the "Godfather". So of course he wields a LOT of power and if I'm not mistaken he still had some Italians with him when he killed Sal the Ironworker (Vittorio Mirarchi, Calogero Millioto and Pietro Magistrale) and were arrested with him. I think only Mirarchi and Millioto are the only ones made out of the 3 but I could be wrong on all 3. I still think he is trying to muscle his way into taking over the drug routes and he doesn't give a damn if you're Italian or not. Some Italians would follow him if he was out I think and needing muscle and power. Too many are too quick to kick him to the curb because he is not Sicilian. Granted that would probably be the case if Vito was still alive, but not anymore. As we've seen before in Montreal with Joe Bravo, you could still have control of things there and not be Italian. Now of course that didn't help him in Sicily because they didn't give a shit what he said much less work with him and we see what Vito did to him anyways. But if you think Desjardins doesn't have any power in Montreal you better think again because you are selling him short.
Sonny try this site. It's not the best, but it helps you stay in the loop even though I'm not sure French can be translated into American word for word but it helps tremendously. I use it to read the Montreal stuff. Just copy and paste the French article and select English on the other side and hit "translate".
If I didn't have my case coming up, I would like to come back with you gentlemen when this is over with and really lay the law down what is going on in this country.....
dixiemafia wrote:I'm telling you, if you think Desjardins has no power in Montreal you need to read up and learn about him. Yes being close to Vito and Di Maulo coming up, but Vito has seemed to have let him run his own family within a family. It's like a family of French Canadians with Raynald being the "Godfather". So of course he wields a LOT of power and if I'm not mistaken he still had some Italians with him when he killed Sal the Ironworker (Vittorio Mirarchi, Calogero Millioto and Pietro Magistrale) and were arrested with him. I think only Mirarchi and Millioto are the only ones made out of the 3 but I could be wrong on all 3. I still think he is trying to muscle his way into taking over the drug routes and he doesn't give a damn if you're Italian or not. Some Italians would follow him if he was out I think and needing muscle and power. Too many are too quick to kick him to the curb because he is not Sicilian. Granted that would probably be the case if Vito was still alive, but not anymore. As we've seen before in Montreal with Joe Bravo, you could still have control of things there and not be Italian. Now of course that didn't help him in Sicily because they didn't give a shit what he said much less work with him and we see what Vito did to him anyways. But if you think Desjardins doesn't have any power in Montreal you better think again because you are selling him short.
Sonny try this site. It's not the best, but it helps you stay in the loop even though I'm not sure French can be translated into American word for word but it helps tremendously. I use it to read the Montreal stuff. Just copy and paste the French article and select English on the other side and hit "translate".
In theory I would have to agree with most of what you say, Desjardin did indeed have mafia members aligned with his side against the Montreal leadership. Now whether Desjardin controlled the opposing faction is debatable but regardless, he played an influential part in it. Now this is not to say had they won, the Montreal mafia would have dissolved with remnants finding their way into some newly formed Desjardin Crime Family. If you go back to Irish-Amer Danny Greene's war against the CL Mafia he had an alliance/arrangement with member John Nardi who was against Licavoli's rise. Go back to Chicago in the last years of the 20's, the Aiello's did something similar with the Moran group after the Capone's began to get the upper hand in the dispute. Every example generally involves what everyone stands to gain once the dust settles. But despite all of this, the Mafia and it's culture of reppresentante, decina, amico nos and protocol would remain largely unchanged.
SonnyBlackstein wrote:@ Laurentian: are there English versions to the articles you post please?
Thank you.
@ Lupara: Desjardines may have respect on the street but I'm questioning his power within the family. His power came from his once close relationship with Vito and being De Maulo's brother in law. Both are dead.
Ive yet to see any evidence he's formed a solid relationships with anyone else, and as such, at most, he's an associate. Hence my scepticism at his leading 'a faction'.
There's no such thing as a single Mafia family in Montreal with a clear chain of command like the ones in New York or other cities in America. It is far more horizontal. You can speak of the 'Montreal Mafia' as a whole that is composed of several groups that are sometimes united but still have their own spheres of influence. The Desjardins-Mirarchi group is still one of them.
The closest thing to a single Mafia family in Montreal was during the days of Cotroni. But after the Rizzuto-Violi war it fragmented into several groups that were more or less overseen by the Rizzutos. During the Rizzuto period the old Cotroni group had a lot of autonomy. Together both groups formed the Montreal Bonanno crew that slowly started to fall apart after Sciascia was killed.
As for Desjardins, he thanked his initial rise to Di Maulo. But in the 1980s and 90s he established himself as a serious individual and gained a lot of respect. I'm sure that he gained even more respect after killing Montagna, the 'Bonanno boss' from New York.
SonnyBlackstein wrote:@ Laurentian: are there English versions to the articles you post please?
Thank you.
@ Lupara: Desjardines may have respect on the street but I'm questioning his power within the family. His power came from his once close relationship with Vito and being De Maulo's brother in law. Both are dead.
During the Rizzuto period the old Cotroni group had a lot of autonomy. Together both groups formed the Montreal Bonanno crew that slowly started to fall apart after Sciascia was killed.
The Cotronis held autonomy, but to a certain extend, during the Rizzutos' tenure. An example, they had to tell first the Rizzutos if they were about to be involved in any kind major drug importation, like RCMP "Caviar-Choke" demonstrated in the 1990s. If they wanted to set up a racket of any kind in Montreal or outside, they still have to tell the Sicilians first.
SonnyBlackstein wrote:@ Laurentian: are there English versions to the articles you post please?
Thank you.
@ Lupara: Desjardines may have respect on the street but I'm questioning his power within the family. His power came from his once close relationship with Vito and being De Maulo's brother in law. Both are dead.
During the Rizzuto period the old Cotroni group had a lot of autonomy. Together both groups formed the Montreal Bonanno crew that slowly started to fall apart after Sciascia was killed.
The Cotronis held autonomy, but to a certain extend, during the Rizzutos' tenure. An example, they had to tell first the Rizzutos if they were about to be involved in any kind major drug importation, like RCMP "Caviar-Choke" demonstrated in the 1990s. If they wanted to set up a racket of any kind in Montreal or outside, they still have to tell the Sicilians first.
You're right ofcourse, but there's a difference between autonomy and full independence. During the Rizzuto period everybody answered to the Rizzutos. But I don't think they enacted the same kind of control as Cotroni and Violi. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Also, informing the Rizzutos of any drug importation was a formality and important for communication.
SonnyBlackstein wrote:@ Laurentian: are there English versions to the articles you post please?
Thank you.
@ Lupara: Desjardines may have respect on the street but I'm questioning his power within the family. His power came from his once close relationship with Vito and being De Maulo's brother in law. Both are dead.
During the Rizzuto period the old Cotroni group had a lot of autonomy. Together both groups formed the Montreal Bonanno crew that slowly started to fall apart after Sciascia was killed.
The Cotronis held autonomy, but to a certain extend, during the Rizzutos' tenure. An example, they had to tell first the Rizzutos if they were about to be involved in any kind major drug importation, like RCMP "Caviar-Choke" demonstrated in the 1990s. If they wanted to set up a racket of any kind in Montreal or outside, they still have to tell the Sicilians first.
You're right ofcourse, but there's a difference between autonomy and full independence. During the Rizzuto period everybody answered to the Rizzutos. But I don't think they enacted the same kind of control as Cotroni and Violi. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Also, informing the Rizzutos of any drug importation was a formality and important for communication.
