General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

[Patrickgold]

He has jumped the shark for sure.


Just attended kids party on Harlem literally two doors down from Sorrentos, hasn’t it been figured that this is where the last supper meeting was?

It’s a take out food only place now. They cut the building into three different businesses with one being Sorrentos. So it is very likely the picture was taken in one of the other businesses because there is no dining room area now. Just a counter to pay and pick up food and a kitchen in back.

[NickyEyes1]

He has jumped the shark for sure.


Just attended kids party on Harlem literally two doors down from Sorrentos, hasn’t it been figured that this is where the last supper meeting was?

It’s a take out food only place now. They cut the building into three different businesses with one being Sorrentos. So it is very likely the picture was taken in one of the other businesses because there is no dining room area now. Just a counter to pay and pick up food and a kitchen in back.

It's too bad Agostinos closed down. I went past there the other day and it's still empty

[Patrickgold]

He has jumped the shark for sure.


Just attended kids party on Harlem literally two doors down from Sorrentos, hasn’t it been figured that this is where the last supper meeting was?

It’s a take out food only place now. They cut the building into three different businesses with one being Sorrentos. So it is very likely the picture was taken in one of the other businesses because there is no dining room area now. Just a counter to pay and pick up food and a kitchen in back.

It's too bad Agostinos closed down. I went past there the other day and it's still empty

Yes that is too bad. Especially since they redid the entire place after the fire. They are trying to revitalize Harlem Ave and designate it Little Italy so maybe that will draw some interest.

[B.]

Thanks for the detail around the LA transfers. And yes, it could well have been the case that LaPorte had been told about the Fratianno thing at the time and later denied knowing, given the bad blood between them around the failed trucking endeavor. I’d think that the fact that Roselli could, if queried, have attested to LaPorte having known would mitigate against that likelihood. If LaPorte was found to have lied to the Consiglio about not being aware of the transfer and was found out, that could have obviously been a big problem for him. Though, we are talking about Chicago, so maybe he did lie, was found out, and we just have no idea that this happened lol.

Also, “The Rat Boss of California” would be a great movie title.

What's interesting is the first time Fratianno told Bomp he was a Chicago member, he said his captain was Frank LaPorte which contradicts what he told Alderisio about being direct with Giancana although I guess Fratianno could have meant he was initially with Giancana then assigned to LaPorte in Giancana's absence. You'd think he would have mentioned LaPorte when Alderisio spoke to him in 1969 if that were the case, though. Bomp said Fratianno's would-be transfer happened in part because Chicago stood to make significant money from the trucking operation he was building with LaPorte. So Fratianno's involvement with LaPorte seems to have been central to the would-be transfer but Fratianno claimed at different times to be assigned to both Giancana and LaPorte and LaPorte denied any knowledge of it either way.

Bomp's understanding was that Fratianno's transfer was arranged by Roselli and that Giancana more or less "told" Desimone that Fratianno was going to transfer but Desimone felt forced into it and didn't tell anyone else in the LA Family. It came to a head when Nick Licata was being elected boss as SD captain Joe Adamo told Bomp they needed Fratianno's vote for the election but Bomp insisted that Fratianno was now a Chicago member so they wouldn't get his vote. That's when Licata reached out to LaPorte through Bomp, who in turn met with Ricca, Accardo, and Alderisio who similarly denied knowledge. Bomp felt that Licata could have sent word to Giancana directly to settle it but didn't want to, as he enjoyed putting Fratianno in limbo and Fratianno was to be shelved or otherwise treated as persona non grata.

The basic story of the informal transfer is consistent but there is a possible inconsistency in who Fratianno claimed to be assigned to and the only people we're aware of who fully believed Fratianno was a Chicago member were Fratianno himself, Bomp, Roselli, and possibly Desimone and Giancana but Desimone was basically coerced into agreeing to it and we have no idea what Giancana would have said if he'd been approached about it.

[PolackTony]

He has jumped the shark for sure.


Just attended kids party on Harlem literally two doors down from Sorrentos, hasn’t it been figured that this is where the last supper meeting was?

It’s a take out food only place now. They cut the building into three different businesses with one being Sorrentos. So it is very likely the picture was taken in one of the other businesses because there is no dining room area now. Just a counter to pay and pick up food and a kitchen in back.

When I was there last a couple years ago, what had been the dining room of the Sicily Restaurant -- the two doors south of the take-out-only counter at Sorrento's today -- was occupied by some two bit tax companies or some such. I also recall that the third space to the south was occupied years back by one of those shady espresso cafe joints with blacked out windows. This was in the 2000s, IIRC, before I moved to NYC.

The Sicily Restaurant occupied the entire building, of course, as it had a large and very active dining room where bands would play Italian folk/popular music. One of those bands was also headed by a relative of Giovanni Incandela, the owner of the restaurant (the Incandela family also operated the only commercial restaurant in the comune of Altavilla back in the '70s).

The old Sicily Restaurant was shown in this excellent 1978 documentary on the close immigration ties between Chicago and Altavilla Milicia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iD-aTYuqMLk

[PolackTony]

Bomp felt that Licata could have sent word to Giancana directly to settle it but didn't want to, as he enjoyed putting Fratianno in limbo and Fratianno was to be shelved or otherwise treated as persona non grata.

An important point also. Licata didn't *have to* block Fratianno here, but given that the transfer seems to have been conducted improperly, this gave Licata pretext to use the issue against Fratianno, a trouble maker for two successive LA administrations by this point.

[PolackTony]

He has jumped the shark for sure.


Just attended kids party on Harlem literally two doors down from Sorrentos, hasn’t it been figured that this is where the last supper meeting was?

It’s a take out food only place now. They cut the building into three different businesses with one being Sorrentos. So it is very likely the picture was taken in one of the other businesses because there is no dining room area now. Just a counter to pay and pick up food and a kitchen in back.

It's too bad Agostinos closed down. I went past there the other day and it's still empty

End of an era, Fiasche family had Agostino's going for like 40 years there. They had that big kitchen fire in 2021 and managed to rebound from it, just to close for good two years later. Harlem Ave is... not what it used to be, though that's not news to anyone familiar with the area. This is also the way of the world. I know that the hope is that the relocation of the IASHF to Harlem is going to shore up the dwindling Italian character of that strip and spark a renaissance, but I wouldn't be overly hopeful about this myself.

[B.]

Bomp felt that Licata could have sent word to Giancana directly to settle it but didn't want to, as he enjoyed putting Fratianno in limbo and Fratianno was to be shelved or otherwise treated as persona non grata.

An important point also. Licata didn't *have to* block Fratianno here, but given that the transfer seems to have been conducted improperly, this gave Licata pretext to use the issue against Fratianno, a trouble maker for two successive LA administrations by this point.

That's how I see it -- it was an issue Licata was obligated to settle as an incoming boss, as Bompensiero put it, but also an excuse to ostracize Fratianno who Licata personally never liked. Recall that when Fratianno was promoted to capodecina by Dragna at an induction ceremony many years earlier, Licata spoke up and said he refused to be part of Fratianno's decina and Dragna agreed to let him stay direct with him.

[NickyEyes1]

He has jumped the shark for sure.


Just attended kids party on Harlem literally two doors down from Sorrentos, hasn’t it been figured that this is where the last supper meeting was?

It’s a take out food only place now. They cut the building into three different businesses with one being Sorrentos. So it is very likely the picture was taken in one of the other businesses because there is no dining room area now. Just a counter to pay and pick up food and a kitchen in back.

It's too bad Agostinos closed down. I went past there the other day and it's still empty

End of an era, Fiasche family had Agostino's going for like 40 years there. They had that big kitchen fire in 2021 and managed to rebound from it, just to close for good two years later. Harlem Ave is... not what it used to be, though that's not news to anyone familiar with the area. This is also the way of the world. I know that the hope is that the relocation of the IASHF to Harlem is going to shore up the dwindling Italian character of that strip and spark a renaissance, but I wouldn't be overly hopeful about this myself.

Tony I don't think I would go as far to say "dwindling" for the area. But the Italian character has definitely lessened in the last 10/15 years. Definitely the most concentrated area in Chicagoland

[funkster]

Lol drove off and was like holy shit look where we’re at

[PolackTony]

He has jumped the shark for sure.


Just attended kids party on Harlem literally two doors down from Sorrentos, hasn’t it been figured that this is where the last supper meeting was?

It’s a take out food only place now. They cut the building into three different businesses with one being Sorrentos. So it is very likely the picture was taken in one of the other businesses because there is no dining room area now. Just a counter to pay and pick up food and a kitchen in back.

It's too bad Agostinos closed down. I went past there the other day and it's still empty

End of an era, Fiasche family had Agostino's going for like 40 years there. They had that big kitchen fire in 2021 and managed to rebound from it, just to close for good two years later. Harlem Ave is... not what it used to be, though that's not news to anyone familiar with the area. This is also the way of the world. I know that the hope is that the relocation of the IASHF to Harlem is going to shore up the dwindling Italian character of that strip and spark a renaissance, but I wouldn't be overly hopeful about this myself.

Tony I don't think I would go as far to say "dwindling" for the area. But the Italian character has definitely lessened in the last 10/15 years. Definitely the most concentrated area in Chicagoland

Sure, “dwindling” might be an overstatement (or, at least, premature, as I think that will be the situation before too much longer) and “declining” more accurately captures what I meant. I can say that when I’ve gone back, Harlem Ave is noticeably not what it used to be, but nothing stays the same, so this is to be expected. There’s also multiple facets to this. On the one hand, you have the presence of Italian businesses and cultural institutions. My impression is that these are declining along Harlem Ave. The relocation of the IASHF is in part intended to stem this decline and reinvigorate the “Italian” character of the business strip. I hope that this is successful, but the fact that the former Agostino site remains vacant isn’t a good sign. Another facet is the actual demographic trends of the surrounding communities. My impression here is that decline in the proportion of Italian residents, both on the Elmwood Park and Chicago sides, has been even more notable than the decline of the business strip. Anecdotal, but from people I know who still live in that area, the surrounding communities are becoming more strongly Latino and Polish/Eastern Euro by the day. I don’t have objective figures for demographic change since, say the 90s/2000s, but I would imagine it has been considerable. And then, how many of the remaining Italians are older folks? How many younger Italians, with families, are buying homes in the area? What happens when the older cohort dies or sells their homes?

Today, you see popular and successful Italian restaurants distributed all across the more affluent sections of Chicagoland, from the City to outlying burbs like the Barringtons. This reflects the increasingly dispersed nature of the Italian population of the region. One can’t put the cat back into the bag here, so to speak, and despite any attempts to shore up the Italian legacy of Harlem Ave, I don’t see this pattern as likely to change. Harlem Ave is, of course, never going to again be what it used to be. IMO, the best that can be hoped for is “managed decline”, where some businesses and institutions hold on while the surrounding communities retain an increasingly minor Italian population.

Of course, none of these trends are unique to Chicago and are also very much evident around NYC.