General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

[NorthBuffalo]

This photo is the classic:
https://www.dignitymemorial.com/obituar ... o-12333213

[NorthBuffalo]

Another factoid on DiSilvestro - his brother Serge DiSilvestro owned and ran the Park N' Jet, an O'Hare Airport parking lot. You can imagine that would be quite lucrative and likely quite a contract to get hold of.

[funkster]

Snakes - What are thoughts on some of these older guys who seemed to be serious players in the 90s - Disilvestro, Milito and guys like Posner - are they just retired and living on their millions? I tend to think guys like that wouldn't have much to do with a Carparelli type.

Honestly, I don't even know. You don't see them mentioned in the news or in court documents, but Patrick has said guys like Fratto and Spina have been seen with Carparelli in public, so I guess that gives you an idea depending on how much you value those two's influence (and I think Rudy is a bigger deal than a lot of people credit him with).

I really dont understand this POV to begin with, these are street guys for the most part at the heart of it all lol.

[Patrickgold]

Snakes - What are thoughts on some of these older guys who seemed to be serious players in the 90s - Disilvestro, Milito and guys like Posner - are they just retired and living on their millions? I tend to think guys like that wouldn't have much to do with a Carparelli type.

Honestly, I don't even know. You don't see them mentioned in the news or in court documents, but Patrick has said guys like Fratto and Spina have been seen with Carparelli in public, so I guess that gives you an idea depending on how much you value those two's influence (and I think Rudy is a bigger deal than a lot of people credit him with).

Paulie is an interesting case. Some top guys associate with him and others in the DeLaurentis crew stay a mile away. I think it’s very possible he is made. I would disagree with Scott B on when he was made. I don’t think he was made by Sarno. I think it happened right before he went to jail or when he got out. In regards to Rudy, I have heard from street guys, not made but associates, that have described Rudy as the top guy now. Now that could be Rudy telling people he’s the top guy when it’s not true or it could mean he is actually the top guy. Considering he is one of the last verifiable made guys still on the street or alive, would lean toward him being the top guy.

[Snakes]

Snakes - What are thoughts on some of these older guys who seemed to be serious players in the 90s - Disilvestro, Milito and guys like Posner - are they just retired and living on their millions? I tend to think guys like that wouldn't have much to do with a Carparelli type.

Honestly, I don't even know. You don't see them mentioned in the news or in court documents, but Patrick has said guys like Fratto and Spina have been seen with Carparelli in public, so I guess that gives you an idea depending on how much you value those two's influence (and I think Rudy is a bigger deal than a lot of people credit him with).

Paulie is an interesting case. Some top guys associate with him and others in the DeLaurentis crew stay a mile away. I think it’s very possible he is made. I would disagree with Scott B on when he was made. I don’t think he was made by Sarno. I think it happened right before he went to jail or when he got out. In regards to Rudy, I have heard from street guys, not made but associates, that have described Rudy as the top guy now. Now that could be Rudy telling people he’s the top guy when it’s not true or it could mean he is actually the top guy. Considering he is one of the last verifiable made guys still on the street or alive, would lean toward him being the top guy.

Maybe top guy in EP?

[Patrickgold]

Snakes - What are thoughts on some of these older guys who seemed to be serious players in the 90s - Disilvestro, Milito and guys like Posner - are they just retired and living on their millions? I tend to think guys like that wouldn't have much to do with a Carparelli type.

Honestly, I don't even know. You don't see them mentioned in the news or in court documents, but Patrick has said guys like Fratto and Spina have been seen with Carparelli in public, so I guess that gives you an idea depending on how much you value those two's influence (and I think Rudy is a bigger deal than a lot of people credit him with).

Paulie is an interesting case. Some top guys associate with him and others in the DeLaurentis crew stay a mile away. I think it’s very possible he is made. I would disagree with Scott B on when he was made. I don’t think he was made by Sarno. I think it happened right before he went to jail or when he got out. In regards to Rudy, I have heard from street guys, not made but associates, that have described Rudy as the top guy now. Now that could be Rudy telling people he’s the top guy when it’s not true or it could mean he is actually the top guy. Considering he is one of the last verifiable made guys still on the street or alive, would lean toward him being the top guy.

Maybe top guy in EP?

They described him as the boss so I took that as top guy in the Outfit. The guys that told me that are retired associates from the old Carlisi crew and are long retired. If they were from EP I would have leaned toward them meaning top guy in EP. With that be said, I didn’t ask any questions to clarify what they meant.

[NorthBuffalo]

Snakes - What are thoughts on some of these older guys who seemed to be serious players in the 90s - Disilvestro, Milito and guys like Posner - are they just retired and living on their millions? I tend to think guys like that wouldn't have much to do with a Carparelli type.

Honestly, I don't even know. You don't see them mentioned in the news or in court documents, but Patrick has said guys like Fratto and Spina have been seen with Carparelli in public, so I guess that gives you an idea depending on how much you value those two's influence (and I think Rudy is a bigger deal than a lot of people credit him with).

Paulie is an interesting case. Some top guys associate with him and others in the DeLaurentis crew stay a mile away. I think it’s very possible he is made. I would disagree with Scott B on when he was made. I don’t think he was made by Sarno. I think it happened right before he went to jail or when he got out. In regards to Rudy, I have heard from street guys, not made but associates, that have described Rudy as the top guy now. Now that could be Rudy telling people he’s the top guy when it’s not true or it could mean he is actually the top guy. Considering he is one of the last verifiable made guys still on the street or alive, would lean toward him being the top guy.

Don't you think Paulie was to blame for going to jail in the first place? Mickey Davis also went to prison - that was a major earner for the DiFronzo's - and if you read that indictment, it's clear Paulie was nowhere near the top brass and was merely being hired as a collector. A good source I speak with says Paulie is the modern day Nick Gio and will end up with the same fate. He's nowhere close to the ones running things - that said, I dont see these guys in public.

[NorthBuffalo]

Snakes - What are thoughts on some of these older guys who seemed to be serious players in the 90s - Disilvestro, Milito and guys like Posner - are they just retired and living on their millions? I tend to think guys like that wouldn't have much to do with a Carparelli type.

Honestly, I don't even know. You don't see them mentioned in the news or in court documents, but Patrick has said guys like Fratto and Spina have been seen with Carparelli in public, so I guess that gives you an idea depending on how much you value those two's influence (and I think Rudy is a bigger deal than a lot of people credit him with).

Paulie is an interesting case. Some top guys associate with him and others in the DeLaurentis crew stay a mile away. I think it’s very possible he is made. I would disagree with Scott B on when he was made. I don’t think he was made by Sarno. I think it happened right before he went to jail or when he got out. In regards to Rudy, I have heard from street guys, not made but associates, that have described Rudy as the top guy now. Now that could be Rudy telling people he’s the top guy when it’s not true or it could mean he is actually the top guy. Considering he is one of the last verifiable made guys still on the street or alive, would lean toward him being the top guy.

Maybe top guy in EP?

I don't think the top guys in EP get indicted as easily as Rudy did in the McCormick scheme with Billy DeGeronimo where he's doing the actual extorting and threats himself - the top guys are the ones running the businesses. I think Rudy's indictments and recent criminal history show he's just desperate to earn money.

[Snakes]

Snakes - What are thoughts on some of these older guys who seemed to be serious players in the 90s - Disilvestro, Milito and guys like Posner - are they just retired and living on their millions? I tend to think guys like that wouldn't have much to do with a Carparelli type.

Honestly, I don't even know. You don't see them mentioned in the news or in court documents, but Patrick has said guys like Fratto and Spina have been seen with Carparelli in public, so I guess that gives you an idea depending on how much you value those two's influence (and I think Rudy is a bigger deal than a lot of people credit him with).

Paulie is an interesting case. Some top guys associate with him and others in the DeLaurentis crew stay a mile away. I think it’s very possible he is made. I would disagree with Scott B on when he was made. I don’t think he was made by Sarno. I think it happened right before he went to jail or when he got out. In regards to Rudy, I have heard from street guys, not made but associates, that have described Rudy as the top guy now. Now that could be Rudy telling people he’s the top guy when it’s not true or it could mean he is actually the top guy. Considering he is one of the last verifiable made guys still on the street or alive, would lean toward him being the top guy.

Maybe top guy in EP?

I don't think the top guys in EP get indicted as easily as Rudy did in the McCormick scheme with Billy DeGeronimo where he's doing the actual extorting and threats himself - the top guys are the ones running the businesses. I think Rudy's indictments and recent criminal history show he's just desperate to earn money.

Yeah, but that was 15 years ago and the old guard in that crew are all dead. A lot can change in that amount of time.

[Patrickgold]

Snakes - What are thoughts on some of these older guys who seemed to be serious players in the 90s - Disilvestro, Milito and guys like Posner - are they just retired and living on their millions? I tend to think guys like that wouldn't have much to do with a Carparelli type.

Honestly, I don't even know. You don't see them mentioned in the news or in court documents, but Patrick has said guys like Fratto and Spina have been seen with Carparelli in public, so I guess that gives you an idea depending on how much you value those two's influence (and I think Rudy is a bigger deal than a lot of people credit him with).

Paulie is an interesting case. Some top guys associate with him and others in the DeLaurentis crew stay a mile away. I think it’s very possible he is made. I would disagree with Scott B on when he was made. I don’t think he was made by Sarno. I think it happened right before he went to jail or when he got out. In regards to Rudy, I have heard from street guys, not made but associates, that have described Rudy as the top guy now. Now that could be Rudy telling people he’s the top guy when it’s not true or it could mean he is actually the top guy. Considering he is one of the last verifiable made guys still on the street or alive, would lean toward him being the top guy.

Maybe top guy in EP?

I don't think the top guys in EP get indicted as easily as Rudy did in the McCormick scheme with Billy DeGeronimo where he's doing the actual extorting and threats himself - the top guys are the ones running the businesses. I think Rudy's indictments and recent criminal history show he's just desperate to earn money.

Yeah, but that was 15 years ago and the old guard in that crew are all dead. A lot can change in that amount of time.

I was just about to say that. 15 years ago is a long time. Also, I think he got hit with that scheme bc the Feds were desperate to get anything on him and couldn’t pin anything else on him. That was his first conviction. Also, he is well off and has a house in Darien which is an upscale community. His daughter is married to a very well off businessman that owns Sunny acres among other things.

[Patrickgold]

Just saw that Scott B. did an article that mentioned Bruce (Uncle Brucie) Principato died. Not really familiar with him but was part of the grand Ave crew and a crew called the Bishop Boys.

Also, there a new article series on Fox32 about the 20th anniversary of the family secret trial.

https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/opera ... bQnLOeyO2Q

[Ivan]

Yeah, but that was 15 years ago and the old guard in that crew are all dead. A lot can change in that amount of time.

No no no, the Outfit froze in time after the Sarno case and the only changes since then have been people on the last government made guys list dying off without being replaced.

[Coloboy]

Just comparing it to my own life and career, 15 years is a long ass time and a lot can change in that period. I would tend to agree back in 2010 he probably wasn’t near the top of the pecking order in Elmwood Park. With guys passing and getting older, I’d be willing to buy that he’s the top guy in that crew today.

As far as him being boss? I suppose I see no reason not to entertain the idea. All in all, it just reinforces my point that we have no idea what the hell is going on, especially at the top of the outfit. I have to chuckle, because a month or two ago, somebody made a post saying “I don’t know who the boss is, but it definitely isn’t Fratto”, lol.

The only thing I am sure of is whatever the actual top structure looks like, nobody has it right in terms of who is who. I think there would be some surprises if that info were to ever get out

[Wiseguy]

No no no, the Outfit froze in time after the Sarno case and the only changes since then have been people on the last government made guys list dying off without being replaced.

The fact associates are routinely plugged in as members into some speculative hierarchy suggests that is more the case than you may think. There's no evidence Carparelli has even been made. Yet not only is he being discussed here like his membership is a foregone conclusion, it's being asked when he'll get bumped up to captain.

[NorthBuffalo]

Just comparing it to my own life and career, 15 years is a long ass time and a lot can change in that period. I would tend to agree back in 2010 he probably wasn’t near the top of the pecking order in Elmwood Park. With guys passing and getting older, I’d be willing to buy that he’s the top guy in that crew today.

As far as him being boss? I suppose I see no reason not to entertain the idea. All in all, it just reinforces my point that we have no idea what the hell is going on, especially at the top of the outfit. I have to chuckle, because a month or two ago, somebody made a post saying “I don’t know who the boss is, but it definitely isn’t Fratto”, lol.

The only thing I am sure of is whatever the actual top structure looks like, nobody has it right in terms of who is who. I think there would be some surprises if that info were to ever get out

I agree - that said, you do have the 2016 Frontier indictment that came out looking at Elmwood Park (Gagliano, Cassano, D'Amico) and Fratto's name is not mentioned. As Fosco generally indicated, Fratto always had 'protectors' in the Outfit all of whom were that old guard who died - he was never an earner, never a businessman and never a union guy. The only scams he's been linked to are largely greedy independent things - then a really dumb tax evasion charge, which most Outfit 'bosses' simply don't pull until they go broke (case in point Mickey Marcello...)

I think to Snakes point I would counter - the old guard was Frattos' bread and butter - he was protected by Messino/Cerone and by extension DiFronzo - I tend to wonder if guys like Cassano and Gagliano who are really involved in EP based on recent FBI files are actually in charge and Fratto is just 'on the shelf' of sorts today.