General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

Discuss all mafia families in the U.S., Canada, Italy, and everywhere else in the world.

Moderator: Capos

Post Reply
User avatar
PolackTony
Filthy Few
Posts: 6001
Joined: Thu May 28, 2020 10:54 am
Location: NYC/Chicago

Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

Post by PolackTony »

funkster wrote: Sun Mar 09, 2025 11:21 am Funny this is coming up, in a recent live RJ brought this up with DiLeonardo asking if NY had something similar (obvious no), and claims that it was in Valachi's testimony that this was done in Chicago. I haven't studied Valachi's testimony closely, so no idea if he actually said that but find it hard to believe if he did that he was correct.
I don't know what RJ said. But the only thing that Valachi said about Chicago was the claim that they paid members who had been involved in narcotics to get out of that racket around the time that he said that the Commission decreed its "ban" on narcotics in the late 50s.

Image

Image

Image

And this is pretty much the only thing that Valachi said about Chicago, at all. That he had heard that their members who had previously been involved in drugs were paid as recompense to get out of that racket, and that later some were found to still have been involved and were killed.

My read is that the exact sum of $200-$250 on a weekly stipend part of this claim is probably an embellishment (telephone game between guys in the Genovese Family telling each other stuff like "oh, in Chicago they're paying guys to get out of dope, they should do the same here for us"). Note that Valachi states that he was told by someone who he clearly felt was knowledgeable that Chicago was using some income from extortion to replace the lost earnings for the members who had been involved in narcotics. This is probably the kernel of truth, that guys who had been into dope were given rights to some street tax revenues as a way of making up for their lost earning potential from narcotics (rather than, say, the Chicago outfit having had accountants and a payroll that was apportioning weekly stipends indefinitely to members, or whatever someone might have tried to baselessly claim about this at some point in past discussions).

Valachi himself had basically no ties to Chicago, though, obviously, there were guys in his Family whom he knew who did.
  • He was aware that his friend Sebastiano "Buster" Domingo had fled Chicago and joined up with Maranzano in NYC.
  • He knew that Joe Aiello was Maranzano's man in Chicago and kicking up large sums of money to Maranzano until the Capone faction killed Aiello.
  • Luciano had wanted Valachi to testify before the first Commission meeting in 1931 in Chicago to present the evidence that Maranzano was justifiably murdered for plotting to kill guys -- Valachi said that he asked to not go and that Bobby Doyle Santuccio went in his stead.
  • He was aware that Chicago had one Family, unlike NYC, and estimated that they had around 150 members. He had no clue what territories outside of Chicago itself they might have controlled. Despite repeated questioning along these lines by the Senators at the 1963 hearings, Valachi affirmed that not only did he have no idea about such things, he had theretofore never even heard of places like Omaha and Des Moines ("Where is that, Senator?")
  • He had once passed through Chicago on his way to Hot Springs, AR, but said that he made no contacts with LCN affiliates in Chicago as he had no such contacts.
  • Vito Genovese had wanted to hold the 1957 national meeting in Chicago, while Magaddino successfully argued for it to be held in Appalachin. Genovese thus blamed Magaddino for the meeting having been raided, as he believed that this would not have occurred had it been held in Chicago.
  • He admitted to having met two of the Fischetti brothers, whom he also stated that he knew to have been LCN members. These seem to have been the only Chicago members that he had been introduced to. He noted that while he thought he had met a guy named "Tony Accardo" while incarcerated in Atlanta, he did not believe this was the Chicago member, as the guy whom he recalled meeting did not resemble photos that he had been shown of JB Accardo (and we, of course, know that Accardo was never incarcerated anyway).
And that's really it for Valachi's attested knowledge about Chicago (he knew even less about Detroit, of which he said he knew nothing at all apart from there being a Family there, while he seems to have been unaware that there even was a Family in KC). The Peter Maas Valachi book does not add any other mentions of Chicago to the above either.
"Hey, hey, hey — this is America, baby! Survival of the fittest.”
B.
Men Of Mayhem
Posts: 10781
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2014 10:18 pm
Contact:

Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

Post by B. »

PolackTony wrote: Wed Mar 05, 2025 12:16 pm The earliest that we can 100% confirm that Lombardo had been formally elevated to capo was around 1975, and it makes sense that at some point in the years after assuming that title, he would have proposed a few guys close to him.
Lombardo was a captain by August 1974 when he was also helping Accardo run the Family with Torello and Pilotta:

Image

This is also when we learn Spilotro was definitively under Lombardo which you mentioned:

Image

Also re: Torello, while it can happen where a guy is made and immediately promoted to captain / help direct the Family, Gurera's earlier identification plus Torello being not only a captain but part of the top leadership by 1974 suggests he'd been a member for some time.

--

Great info, re: Patrick and Vento telling Rainone that members are made via ceremony and then have the right to run their own "crew". Tony brought up the Prio conversation where it was whispered that a guy like Campise was now an "avugad" (avvocato / advocate) which was typically used in the mafia to refer to a Commission member but we believe it was being used here to simply refer to having become a member, as a made member was indeed a general sort of avvocato (or even rappresentante) over the people under him. A member can advocate / argue for people, something associates generally can't do at least within the formal organization.

--

Re: "pensions", never seen any info on Chicago having anything like this except what Valachi said about compensation for not dealing drugs but when Bomp visited St. Louis in 1968 he was told by Tony Giordano that the elderly members there were on some kind of payroll.

Another apparent Chicago reference from Valachi is Maranzano telling him the murder of "Don Antonio" was one of the infractions Masseria committed that led to the war. This was almost certainly Antonio Lombardo and complements Gentile's claim that Masseria directed Capone to kill Lombardo and Aiello.
funkster
Full Patched
Posts: 1510
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2014 5:52 pm

Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

Post by funkster »

He must have been confused, because the elderly members on a payroll is what he indicated Valachi said essentially.
User avatar
PolackTony
Filthy Few
Posts: 6001
Joined: Thu May 28, 2020 10:54 am
Location: NYC/Chicago

Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

Post by PolackTony »

B. wrote: Sun Mar 09, 2025 1:10 pm
PolackTony wrote: Wed Mar 05, 2025 12:16 pm The earliest that we can 100% confirm that Lombardo had been formally elevated to capo was around 1975, and it makes sense that at some point in the years after assuming that title, he would have proposed a few guys close to him.
Lombardo was a captain by August 1974 when he was also helping Accardo run the Family with Torello and Pilotta:

Image

This is also when we learn Spilotro was definitively under Lombardo which you mentioned:

Image
Yup, this was the reference I had been referring to earlier, of course. And it doesn't necessarily mean that Lombardo had not already been a captain for some years by this time, it's just that we can only say with certainty that he was identified as holding this position by a verified member source at this time.

My reading of the Spilotro thing is that he was almost certainly a member of the Buccieri crew as late as about 1971, when he left Chicago for Vegas (we have multiple associate sources that unequivocally placed him with that crew, including Cullotta, who we can expect to have at least known this much). By 1974, at the latest, he was reporting to Lombardo. Given the CI account that Spilotro had gotten into a serious rift with Torello over a contested promotion (which fits Torello's succession of the ailing Buccieri), he may have been transferred out of that crew for this reason.
B wrote: Also re: Torello, while it can happen where a guy is made and immediately promoted to captain / help direct the Family, Gurera's earlier identification plus Torello being not only a captain but part of the top leadership by 1974 suggests he'd been a member for some time.
Oh, for sure. Fosco's claim isn't at face value absurd or anything. But the other evidence, including an identification years prior by a contemporaneous, verified LCN source, indicates that Fosco's secondhand account was probably confused or mistaken.
B wrote: Great info, re: Patrick and Vento telling Rainone that members are made via ceremony and then have the right to run their own "crew". Tony brought up the Prio conversation where it was whispered that a guy like Campise was now an "avugad" (avvocato / advocate) which was typically used in the mafia to refer to a Commission member but we believe it was being used here to simply refer to having become a member, as a made member was indeed a general sort of avvocato (or even rappresentante) over the people under him. A member can advocate / argue for people, something associates generally can't do at least within the formal organization.
As Above, so Below. The soldier represents his associates, the captain represents his soldiers (and their associates), the boss represents the entire Family, and in his capacity as a Commission member, in turn represents other Families. Like Russian dolls. It's all avugads all the way down lol.

We know that Joe Costello was recorded addressing Giancana, in his capacity as representative/boss of the Family, as "avvocato" also, a term that is fully synonymous with rappresentante. That Chicago seems to have used this to refer to a "boss" at multiple levels of the hierarchy is important, in that it points to the vital dimension of the "chain of representation", which is not captured by the English use of "boss" -- which solely connotes the "chain of command" aspect of the organizational structure -- to gloss the original Sicilian usages. That Chicago, within the circle of actual mafia membership, seems to have emphasized the use of avvocato in these ways goes to underscore how important the "chain of representation" was to their own understanding of their organization.
B wrote: Re: "pensions", never seen any info on Chicago having anything like this except what Valachi said about compensation for not dealing drugs but when Bomp visited St. Louis in 1968 he was told by Tony Giordano that the elderly members there were on some kind of payroll.
Good reminder on Bomp's claim about STL. As I noted above, given that the mafia is a type of mutual aid society, we can expect that things like this may well have been done, at least in some Families at some times. STL was, of course, an extremely conservative Family, and had a small and dwindling membership by the time that Bomp was told this by Giordano, so if Giordano was maintaining some of the elder members as a gesture of respect, it wouldn't be a big undertaking.

This reminded me that there was *one* reference to a (probable) Chicago member receiving a "pension". Frank "Afe" Mulea, a likely made member of the Prio crew who died in 1978. Mulea had been in very poor health for a number of years by that point, and a CI in the early 1970s had claimed that he was totally dependent on "government and hoodlum pensions". This was sort of a special case of a guy who was very sick and broke, living off the VA, and I can totally see Prio and DiBella having thrown money his way to take care of him (again, presumably as an ad hoc and personal gesture rather than a systematic entitlement that all or most members could expect to enjoy).

viewtopic.php?p=261750#p261750
B wrote: Another apparent Chicago reference from Valachi is Maranzano telling him the murder of "Don Antonio" was one of the infractions Masseria committed that led to the war. This was almost certainly Antonio Lombardo and complements Gentile's claim that Masseria directed Capone to kill Lombardo and Aiello.
Agreed that this was almost certainly Tony Lombardo, though it's unclear that Valachi actually knew who he was.
"Hey, hey, hey — this is America, baby! Survival of the fittest.”
Cosmik_Debris
Straightened out
Posts: 63
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2020 11:49 am

Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

Post by Cosmik_Debris »

PolackTony wrote: Sat Mar 08, 2025 11:30 pm I’m inclined to read it as like when a member’s family gets taken care of when he’s in prison (as Nick C said Marcello made sure to have happen for him). In other words, a lot more ad hoc and personal rather than a systematic entitlement. These guys weren’t running the Social Security Administration by any means.
Wasn't Marcello only paying Nick C's family because he was afraid he was going to cooperate and wanted to make sure he was spared?

That to me didn't feel like normal protocol. Nick wasn't in Marcello's Melrose Park crew, so it seems like it wouldn't be his obligation to pay for his family while Nick was locked up. From what I understand, nobody from the Chinatown Crew was paying Nick's family and Nick wasn't happy about that.

That always felt like pure self-preservation from Marcello to me, with Marcello knowing Nick had enough information on him to put him away for life (like he did).

In Russo's The Outfit book, he talks about Murray Humphrey's handling the "pension" system for retired wives and widows, which the specific mention of Mae and Sonny Capone.
User avatar
PolackTony
Filthy Few
Posts: 6001
Joined: Thu May 28, 2020 10:54 am
Location: NYC/Chicago

Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

Post by PolackTony »

Correct, and that’s my point. Marcello had personal reasons for taking care of Nick’s family. Though note that Nick also testified that Marcello told him that he was going to have him transferred after he got out of prison, so there was apparently a more substantial relationship also. But either way, we have no reason to otherwise believe that every member could expect to be taken care of like that as a matter of entitlement.
"Hey, hey, hey — this is America, baby! Survival of the fittest.”
User avatar
PolackTony
Filthy Few
Posts: 6001
Joined: Thu May 28, 2020 10:54 am
Location: NYC/Chicago

Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

Post by PolackTony »

Cosmik_Debris wrote: Mon Mar 10, 2025 6:20 am In Russo's The Outfit book, he talks about Murray Humphrey's handling the "pension" system for retired wives and widows, which the specific mention of Mae and Sonny Capone.
As always with Russo, he fails to provide citations for his claims (this should be a major red flag for anyone picking up his book).

He got this, however, from a 1963 FBI report that stated that Humphreys had been recorded discussing financial responsibilities to Capone’s family. I’ve read the actual transcripts of these recordings; they’re vague and in no way support the notion that there was anything like a general “pension system” for wives and widows.

It was in a 1959 conversation with Battaglia. Humphreys was drafting a letter responding to Sonny Capone, who had apparently asked for money to cover his debts (totaling over $20k), and Humphreys was informing Sonny that his request was being “rejected”. Humphreys went on to tell Battaglia that before Ricca “went away” (1940s), he had informed Humphreys that they had been taking care of Mae and Sonny (from other comments Humphreys made, it would seem that after Ricca went away, Guzik had actually been responsible for dealing with them — “she used to drive Jack crazy” — which would make sense given his close personal relationship to Capone). Humphreys also related that at some point, Ricca had cut Sonny off, apparently for womanizing or spending the money on women (Humphreys said that he had disagreed as he was more “broad minded” when it came to personal mores).

It’s possible that after Guzik, Humphreys may have taken on the responsibility of actually dealing with Mae and Sonny. Humphreys went on to say that once Giancana and Ferraro took over (“Joe is not here, and Paul is not here”), they cut off support, with Gus Alex apparently supporting that decision. Humphreys further related that he felt that it should have been Ralph Capone’s obligation to take care of his relatives, as he had no kids and significant income from his pinball machines (while brother Mimi Capone had been “trying to help” Sonny, Humphreys remarked that Matt Capone was a “drunken bum”), and that he had tried to convince “other Italians” help Sonny out, including Joe Fischetti (which makes sense, again given the close relationship between the Fischetti and Capone families and the fact that he lived in Miami near Sonny).

Humphreys also made a point of noting that Giancana and Ferraro didn’t go back to the Capone days and thus didn’t feel the same personal responsibility towards Capone’s family. Again, some guys and their families I’m sure got taken care of, at least at some times, but this was ad hoc and personal. A new boss comes in, and might not care to maintain such arrangements.
"Hey, hey, hey — this is America, baby! Survival of the fittest.”
B.
Men Of Mayhem
Posts: 10781
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2014 10:18 pm
Contact:

Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

Post by B. »

PolackTony wrote: This reminded me that there was *one* reference to a (probable) Chicago member receiving a "pension". Frank "Afe" Mulea, a likely made member of the Prio crew who died in 1978. Mulea had been in very poor health for a number of years by that point, and a CI in the early 1970s had claimed that he was totally dependent on "government and hoodlum pensions". This was sort of a special case of a guy who was very sick and broke, living off the VA, and I can totally see Prio and DiBella having thrown money his way to take care of him (again, presumably as an ad hoc and personal gesture rather than a systematic entitlement that all or most members could expect to enjoy).
Yeah, there's a difference between a systematized "pension" package for elderly / sick members vs. his close associates helping him out.

Looking at the St. Louis report again, Bompensiero said he was told by Giordano that he had twenty-two members on his "payroll" and they were almost all elderly. As is common with these reports, it's not clear if Giordano meant he literally had a payroll / pension system for all of these members, was using "payroll" as a general euphemism to mean as boss he was obligated to look after their interests, or what the details were. I suspect he did mean the Family helped them out financially but we can't necessarily assume it was a formal system of financial assistance. But if it was, like you said it was a small, close-knit Family.
PolackTony wrote: Mon Mar 10, 2025 10:01 am
Cosmik_Debris wrote: Mon Mar 10, 2025 6:20 am In Russo's The Outfit book, he talks about Murray Humphrey's handling the "pension" system for retired wives and widows, which the specific mention of Mae and Sonny Capone.
As always with Russo, he fails to provide citations for his claims (this should be a major red flag for anyone picking up his book).

He got this, however, from a 1963 FBI report that stated that Humphreys had been recorded discussing financial responsibilities to Capone’s family. I’ve read the actual transcripts of these recordings; they’re vague and in no way support the notion that there was anything like a general “pension system” for wives and widows.
I've seen that transcript as well and we've discussed it. Definitely no indication it was standard practice or anything other than helping out the relatives of a former boss, who as you said, earlier leaders had a more direct relationship with. As JR Russo said during the taped Boston ceremony, relatives and descendants are still considered part of the organization's orbit to the "7th generation" and situations like this are relevant to that perspective.

Sam DeCavalcante was recorded having a similar conversation where it was mentioned that the wives of former bosses Phil Amari and Nick Delmore were receiving money from the Family. I recall they gave these wives a cut from donations given at the Ribera Club's orphanage dinner. But again, no indication the DeCavalcantes had a "pension" system beyond wanting to help the wives of these former bosses.
User avatar
SonnyC
Straightened out
Posts: 89
Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2020 4:24 pm

Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

Post by SonnyC »

PolackTony wrote: Fri Mar 07, 2025 4:58 pm
PPPP wrote: Fri Mar 07, 2025 12:54 pm
Patrickgold wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 8:11 pm New podcast called crookcounty. It’s supposedly about a Chicago hit man nobody knew about. His name is Kenny “the kid” Tekiela. Anybody hear of him?
They mention, IIRC, he started working in the early 80's for a made guy who was the son of Chicago's Chop Shop king. Who would that be? Whose son? Al Pilotto's? Jimmy Catura's? Later he goes on to say he then worked for another made guy who was a crew boss who was a well kept gangster. And who ran all the whorehouses for the outfit in the unincorporated parts of cook, dupage and kane counties.
My guess is that they were referring to Catuara. He had one son, Carmelo “Carl” Catuara. Carl Catuara was not at all unknown to Federal investigators, but I’ve never seen anything that would suggest that he was a made guy (not that this necessarily means that he was not made, of course).

Carl Catuara was a longtime employee of the IL Secretary of State’s office, under which he managed a drivers license facility on the Westside of Chicago. In 1989, he was questioned by Federal investigators because of personal and financial ties to an executive of an armored car company that operated an armored vehicle from which over $2mil in coins belonging to the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago were stolen. In 1996, it was also revealed that Carl Catuara was a target of Operation Silver Shovel, a major Federal investigation of political corruption in Chicago in the 90s. In 1993, FBI mole John Christopher had purchased two drivers licenses from Carl Catuara under a false name; Catuara was summarily fired from his position with the State of IL, but died soon after.

While the Chicago press reported in coverage of both events that he was the son of Jimmy Catuara, Carl himself was never described as an associate, member, or otherwise affiliated with the outfit.
Yea, Carl was certainly not a made guy. He managed the Secretary of State's DL facility on Lexington, my grandfather was the assistant manager. They had somewhat of an adversarial relationship. Carl's clout was obviously his father. My grandfather's was Angelo Fosco, who was my grandmother's first cousin. As far as I can remember, Carl got transferred out after his father was killed.
User avatar
PolackTony
Filthy Few
Posts: 6001
Joined: Thu May 28, 2020 10:54 am
Location: NYC/Chicago

Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

Post by PolackTony »

SonnyC wrote: Mon Mar 10, 2025 11:13 am
PolackTony wrote: Fri Mar 07, 2025 4:58 pm
PPPP wrote: Fri Mar 07, 2025 12:54 pm
Patrickgold wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 8:11 pm New podcast called crookcounty. It’s supposedly about a Chicago hit man nobody knew about. His name is Kenny “the kid” Tekiela. Anybody hear of him?
They mention, IIRC, he started working in the early 80's for a made guy who was the son of Chicago's Chop Shop king. Who would that be? Whose son? Al Pilotto's? Jimmy Catura's? Later he goes on to say he then worked for another made guy who was a crew boss who was a well kept gangster. And who ran all the whorehouses for the outfit in the unincorporated parts of cook, dupage and kane counties.
My guess is that they were referring to Catuara. He had one son, Carmelo “Carl” Catuara. Carl Catuara was not at all unknown to Federal investigators, but I’ve never seen anything that would suggest that he was a made guy (not that this necessarily means that he was not made, of course).

Carl Catuara was a longtime employee of the IL Secretary of State’s office, under which he managed a drivers license facility on the Westside of Chicago. In 1989, he was questioned by Federal investigators because of personal and financial ties to an executive of an armored car company that operated an armored vehicle from which over $2mil in coins belonging to the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago were stolen. In 1996, it was also revealed that Carl Catuara was a target of Operation Silver Shovel, a major Federal investigation of political corruption in Chicago in the 90s. In 1993, FBI mole John Christopher had purchased two drivers licenses from Carl Catuara under a false name; Catuara was summarily fired from his position with the State of IL, but died soon after.

While the Chicago press reported in coverage of both events that he was the son of Jimmy Catuara, Carl himself was never described as an associate, member, or otherwise affiliated with the outfit.
Yea, Carl was certainly not a made guy. He managed the Secretary of State's DL facility on Lexington, my grandfather was the assistant manager. They had somewhat of an adversarial relationship. Carl's clout was obviously his father. My grandfather's was Angelo Fosco, who was my grandmother's first cousin. As far as I can remember, Carl got transferred out after his father was killed.
SO far as I'm aware, at least, he remained manager until he was fired in 1996 when the Silver Shovel stuff dropped. At the least, he was a manager of a Westside DL facility apparently up until '93, when he sold fake licenses to John Christopher (aka "John DiVito"). The only DL facility that I am aware of on the Westside was that same one out west on Lexington by Laramie (Columbus Park) and I don't think there were any others in the 80s/90s.

I couldn't say categorically that he was *not* made, but nothing I have ever seen would indicate that he was and I personally don't think he was. As you say, his clout would have been his dad (whatever happened there), though it wouldn't surprise me if someone else put him on record later, given that he still would have been a useful guy given his position.
"Hey, hey, hey — this is America, baby! Survival of the fittest.”
B.
Men Of Mayhem
Posts: 10781
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2014 10:18 pm
Contact:

Re: General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

Post by B. »

Re: pensions, keep in mind too this is an organization that was originally based around kinship and longstanding hometown relationships so it would be presumed that elder/sick members or the relatives of deceased/incarcerated members would receive material assistance from other members given there were blood/marital ties to current members and leaders. Like ordinary blood families of course they don't always help each other, people are greedy, "out of sight, out of mind," etc. (all human phenomena not exclusive to the mafia) but there was still a built-in mechanism for handling these situations. Americanization and the weakening of these links would change that dynamic and could necessitate some kind of formal system for assisting members or their relatives yet it doesn't seem this was done in most cases.
Post Reply