Nove Tocco livestream notes (28 Feb)

[JoePuzzles234]

Earlier there was a very productive livestream on the Gangster Report channel with Scott B & Nove Tocco. These are the notes I took on stuff that I asked or otherwise interested me. There was a lot more discussed, so I would recommend checking out the full VOD

LCN membership:

• Anthony Giacalone Jr. and Sal Vitello were never made and Tocco can’t recall if Peter Jack Corrado was “formally inducted” – in reference to the 1993 lists
• Giacalone Jnr was a “nice guy”, Tocco looked out for him “his whole life”
• The FBI and US Attorney’s Office apparently considered Nove an LCN member despite being informally under his uncle – Tocco says that he and Big Paulie Corrado both “refused a ceremony” (also stated previously)
• Joseph Giacalone is not a made member according to Tocco but Scott says there is government identification claiming otherwise (not sure what the source is)

Frankie Bomb & Carlo:

• Tocco does not comment on Frank Bommarito’s membership status but says he didn’t like him
• When they first met, Bommarito rudely asked about his first name with Tocco telling him it was after his grandfather and “to go fuck himself”
• Scott claims it was the government, not Jiggy, that says Carlo Bommarito was made in 1995
• Tocco says it is very possible that Carlo was hot-dosed in prison but doesn’t comment on his formal status because he never met him
• Scott met Frank Bommarito for the first time shortly after Carlo had died and when offering condolences, was told that Carlo was a “motherfucker who got what he deserved”

Via Scott’s interviews with Tony Zerilli:

• A ceremony under Joe Zerilli began with a “mantra” while holding hands, then at the end, they would link hands again

Unions:

• Under Fitzsimmons and through Peter Vitale and Jimmy Quasarano, Detroit had roughly the same influence in the Teamsters as when Hoffa was around
• Tocco knew Joseph and Michael Bane (IBT)

Post-Gametax admin:

• Speculation: Jack V. Giacalone was probably going to be the boss after Jack W. Tocco with Anthony LaPiana in an “advisory” role
• Anthony Tocco was the acting boss, probably only because of his brother

Misc:

• Joe Zerilli had a low opinion of Vito Genovese
• Tocco likes Andiamo’s ( ) and recommends it if one is going to Detroit
• Tocco says Lindbloom is a complete liar and not affiliated but he did know a lot of his relatives
• Tocco knew a few Chicago guys from prison and dealt with them in gambling operations, no further identification of these guys – these meetings were primarily through Anthony Zerilli in Las Vegas
• Tocco told Big Paulie Corrado to avoid the trial-fixing issue by going to his attorney, which caused a “major problem” between Billy Giacalone and Corrado in prison

[Proletarian187]

Good summary.

I watched it and there was a lot of good stuff. Burnstein is all over the place and talks too much as usual though. The guy is a habitual interrupter..

However: This is top tier content for mafia buffs. Not another dopey, low level associate from Brooklyn or The Bronx talking about knife fights in the club. A rare glimpse into Detroit and the mob royalty there.

Tocco comes off calm, serious and honest. The guy met Carlos Marcello and Tony Accardo. That in itself is more interesting than 99% of the stuff out there.

It's very obvious that he and most of Detroit come from a higher class of the mafia class system. Nove Tocco was more of a thug than a sophisticated racketeer but is still well spoken, conservative with his words and seems more "traditional". There was little room for cowboys and loudmouths in Detroit.
Except for Frank Bommarito who seems like a hilarious outlier.

He said that Jack Tocco actually changed the policy from strictly sicilian membership allowing mainlanders to join. At least in theory, I'm not sure if they inducted any non sicilians after that.

[PolackTony]

He said that Jack Tocco actually changed the policy from strictly sicilian membership allowing mainlanders to join. At least in theory, I'm not sure if they inducted any non sicilians after that.

Tony LaPiana. His father’s parents were from Calabria (settled in the Taylor St neighborhood on Chicago’s Westside). Additionally, I believe that his mother was not Italian (I have her as Stella Demenov, born in MI to parents from the Russian Empire — most likely ethnic Russians — before moving to Chicago).

If I’m correct here, they made a Calabrian-Russian guy.

[Proletarian187]

Didn't know he was calabrian. He would have been made sometime in the late 70's or early 80's I believe?

He was made by/under Jack Tocco around the time Tocco changed that policy. And he became a big player pretty quick. It could indicate he was part of the reason for the change of policy.

[PolackTony]

Didn't know he was calabrian. He would have been made sometime in the late 70's or early 80's I believe?

He was made by/under Jack Tocco around the time Tocco changed that policy. And he became a big player pretty quick. It could indicate he was part of the reason for the change of policy.

That’s possible. He was of course from Chicago and seems to have been an associate with the Daddono crew in the Western suburbs. In the late 60s, he was pinched with some other guys in that group, including suspected Chicago LCN member Salvatore DeRosa, for a big heist of a cigar truck. LaPiana wound up getting acquitted for the hijacking charges in 1969, and I believe soon after he relocated to Detroit. Offhand, I’m not sure the exact year that he married Phyllis Meli, but I believe it was at some point in the 70s.

LaPiana was, of course, also a relative by marriage of Jack Tocco’s wife Marie Meli (daughter of Angelo Meli).

Another important piece here is that LaPiana’s father, Anthony LaPiana Sr, was a long time employee of the Sanitary District of Chicago (Metropolitan Water Reclamation District), an institution that long served as an important institution for patronage jobs for the Cook County Democratic machine (the Sanitary District also had officials with LCN ties, unsurprisingly, which I’ve noted before in the Chicago threads), and a Teamsters official. In 1947, LaPiana Sr was already identified as an employee of the Sanitary District who had never take the civil service exam, so it’s clear that he was awarded the position via some clout that he had (he clearly had a “rabbi” somewhere).

After flipping, former IBT President Jackie Presser told the FBI that LaPiana Jr served as a critical liaison to the Teamsters for both the Detroit and Chicago outfits. He was also personally close to Chuckie O’Brien. Lapiana was publicly identified as a Detroit LCN member by Detroit FBI SA Sam Ruffino during the 1998 RICO trial of Jack Tocco. Ruffini testified that the FBI were aware that LaPiana was a member, although he was not depicted as such in the 1987 Detroit outfit chart that the FBI had presented to Congress. I’d agree that he was probably made sometime between the mid-70s and early 1980s.

[Tocco686]

I have a few issues with things that were said in this.

How does Nove not know Carlo’s formal status. You would have to know who’s in, in order to know who to talk to and in front of about certain things. How do you know who to trust if you can’t even verify who’s in your family.

Jack Tocco doesn’t strike me as the type of guy you can decline an initiation with and still be allowed to do work for or hang around.

As for Tocco liking Andiamo’s. Of course he would. Jack and Anthony were silent partners who helped Joe Vicari financially setup that restaurant. Vicari is the son in law to Anthony Tawncy Tocco. Andiamo’s is a shitty chain restaurant in Metro Detroit. Everyone knows you want the good spots you goto Luciano’s (where Peter Tocco’s crew HQ’d out of). Da Francesca’s, Sapori, or Silver Spoons. Also Lapiana is the silent owner of La Strada in Birmingham with his wife’s hair salon right next door.

Everything Nove says I take with skepticism. I mean this is a guy willing to put his own family members in jail. Not a stand up guy by any means. I’m actually surprised he still shows his face. I know he was a bus driver for awhile and got caught stealing peoples shit. Then working at some crappy Deli about an hour or two north of metro Detroit.

I mean believe what you want, it makes for good stories. But I think he’s full of shit. He’ll probably try to cash in on a book or something in the near future.

[Adam]

I find it all interesting. I wasn't able to make it to the live stream to ask questions but got to watch it this morning. I find Nove Tocco to be very believable. I do like that we can put all that Lindbloom stuff to bed as total bullshit(which I think we all knew anyways). I've watched all the patreon interviews also so I'm learning a lot. I don't expect Nove Tocco to know all the things going on. I will say that his stories and recollections fit(with differences) what a lot of us thought was going on at the time. I will say that the biggest take from this very long and informative Q&A was the Carlo Bommarito "hot dose" part. Where Nove shrugs that off and says that was a method of operation. Some of us have suspected this about the Detroit mob, but I can only find three that I can really call as probable, with one possible. But makes me wonder how many there actually were. So fucking low key about things.

As a side note I will mention that watching the interviews reminds me again of the ridiculously high number of suicides there are for people involved or associated or on the fringe of the Detroit mob. Statistically unlikely.

[7digits]

The Patreon costs nothing basically and is well worth it. Already over 10 hours of interview time w Nove Tocco who was and comes from Mob Royalty. Also Scott is getting guys who have never told there stories publicly to come on from around the country. From Chicago to New York, New England , KC, Philadelphia and others

[Honk]

Didn’t someone in Nove’s family get beat up by another mob guy after he flipped? I think it happened outside of Andiamo.

Also, did anyone catch the part that Nove didn’t actually flip or rat? That confused me.

[JoePuzzles234]

Didn’t someone in Nove’s family get beat up by another mob guy after he flipped? I think it happened outside of Andiamo.

It was his brother, Joseph Tocco. There are multiple variations of the story, one is that he was beaten for information about Nove, another I've seen is that it was a just fight with Anthony Tocco - not sure which is accurate but maybe others can clarify the situation

[Proletarian187]

Didn’t someone in Nove’s family get beat up by another mob guy after he flipped? I think it happened outside of Andiamo.

Also, did anyone catch the part that Nove didn’t actually flip or rat? That confused me.

They said he debriefed but clarified that he never testified or wore a wire. I guess it's a relevant distinction but he definitely broke Omerta and gave info. Some things regarding his status as a member as well as an informant are a little unclear and hazy.

He did not get made by/under Jack Tocco. Which could be problematic, but it's well known that Tony Zerilli was given a lot of autonomy by Jack Tocco after he was stepped over as Boss.

It seems like T Zerilli pretty much had his own faction after that and I guess he could even induct guys.

Interesting that the aristocratic, buttoned up Detroit family was just as plagued with internal strife as any other family. The story of Jack Tocco and Tony Zerilli getting in a fist fight as senior citizens is both hilarious and sad.

[Adam]

Didn’t someone in Nove’s family get beat up by another mob guy after he flipped? I think it happened outside of Andiamo.

Also, did anyone catch the part that Nove didn’t actually flip or rat? That confused me.

They said he debriefed but clarified that he never testified or wore a wire. I guess it's a relevant distinction but he definitely broke Omerta and gave info. Some things regarding his status as a member as well as an informant are a little unclear and hazy.

He did not get made by/under Jack Tocco. Which could be problematic, but it's well known that Tony Zerilli was given a lot of autonomy by Jack Tocco after he was stepped over as Boss.

It seems like T Zerilli pretty much had his own faction after that and I guess he could even induct guys.

Interesting that the aristocratic, buttoned up Detroit family was just as plagued with internal strife as any other family. The story of Jack Tocco and Tony Zerilli getting in a fist fight as senior citizens is both hilarious and sad.

I appreciate your take. I wouldn't necessarily say Detroit had internal strife like other families. To me internal strife are the Colombo family wars, or Philly's craziness, or Boston's factions trying to take each other out, or the Bonannos killing three captains in one night, or Gotti taking out Castellano, or Nardi trying to take out Cleveland bosses and killing their underboss. That to me is internal strife.

[Tocco686]

I can’t speak on the internal strife from long ago, but present day seems to be a different story. The days of Jack Tocco running the family bunker style are over.

From what I’ve been told by street guys and other sources is the family is operating in factions, unaware of what the others are doing.

Louis Stramaglia from what I understand operates completely alone from the family. He has a good hustle going on from what I understand.

The D’Annas basically have their own faction and have known how to play both sides since they arrived. Joe is like a politician. Him and Mimmo basically run the Eastside, Legitimately and otherwise. They pretty much run independently from the rest of the family and are probably not kicking up what they should. Also, they been pushing Aceto who is Giacalone’s RH man out of the areas drug market.

Giacalone who is a hermit nowadays is basically a figure head. He barely comes out now that Peter Tocco has died. Just sitting in his new mansion he’s built in Clarkston. He’s just there to take the charge when big indictment’s come down. Most people believe Lapiana is really running things with the D’annas.

The family is really a shell of what it used to be. They have their hands in drugs and gambling. Most of these guys were smart and gave generational wealth to their kids so they could build legit businesses to make their fortunes. Carmela Foods, Tringali Sanitation, Bagnasco funeral homes and so on.

[Proletarian187]

I appreciate your take. I wouldn't necessarily say Detroit had internal strife like other families. To me internal strife are the Colombo family wars, or Philly's craziness, or Boston's factions trying to take each other out, or the Bonannos killing three captains in one night, or Gotti taking out Castellano, or Nardi trying to take out Cleveland bosses and killing their underboss. That to me is internal strife.
[/quote]

Well, when you use Colombos or Bonannos as a measuring stick, sure the Detroit drama is no worse than my family reunion last year..