General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

[Snakes]

Frank also told his son on the prison tapes that Aiuppa wanted Tony dead. "I don't care how you do it, I want him gone" or something to that effect. He was also of the opinion that Tony corrupted his brother, Mike and that he got him killed as a result.

[Snakes]

Additionally, the brother John is still alive and living in Vegas, right? At least he was as of a couple years ago. He was involved in the Outfit, although not as deep as Tony, Mike, or Victor.

[Ivan]

Additionally, the brother John is still alive and living in Vegas, right? At least he was as of a couple years ago. He was involved in the Outfit, although not as deep as Tony, Mike, or Victor.

There's also a John Spilotro who's an attorney in Vegas (and IIRC represents Rocco Lombardo), but I'm not sure which brother he's the son of.

[Patrickgold]

Additionally, the brother John is still alive and living in Vegas, right? At least he was as of a couple years ago. He was involved in the Outfit, although not as deep as Tony, Mike, or Victor.

Yes I remember he got caught up in his brothers cases and also some cases in the early 90s. Here is a recent article about his house being for sale in Vegas. It says in the article they were unsure if he is still alive but would be in his 80s.

https://nypost.com/2023/11/25/real-esta ... -for-550k/

[NorthBuffalo]

There’s obviously this whole grisly and ritualistic way that the Spilotro bros murder went down that makes for a dark and compelling story (it’s some real horror movie type shit for sure).

But it bears stressing that per Nick C’s testimony, that is not how it was originally planned to go down, so I personally wouldn’t read it as symptomatic of some deeper hidden reason for the murders. As noted, the brothers were originally going to be killed in Vegas and Schweihs was planning to spray them with an Uzi, but the hit team — after weeks of surveillance — was never able to get them in position for that without other people around.

It’s pretty clear that after this initial attempt failed, Plan B was to lure them back to Chicago and thus it went down the way it went down.

Surely they could have found another way to hit him in Chicago without involving literally the boss of all active crews, no? The risk of involving so many people in a brutal murder with blood and brains everywhere really shows how tight knit chicago was even at that time. I really think something escalated between the initial hit attempts in Vegas and the actual hit - when you examine the timelines, I think the difference is the sentencing in the Strawman Cases - Aiuppa and Cerone were sentenced to the heaviest terms in prison they had ever faced in May of 1986. The Spilotros were killed the following month.

My theory would be that Aiuppa sent a message to make Spilotro pay - or Ferriola wanted to - following all of the street bosses being sentenced to decades long terms.

[Coloboy]

With any sanctioned murder of a member, there are typically going to be a number of precipitating factors and then some final infraction that is used as the immediate pretense for ordering the hit.

As with many things Chicago, the only actual inside source that we have (as opposed to all of the various outsider speculation, etc., that has bloomed over the years) came from Nick Calabrese. Recall that on July 18, 2007, Nick C testified that he had participated in an earlier hit attempt on the Spilotro brothers, where he traveled first to Phoenix and then to Vegas to participate in several weeks of surveillance of the targets. This was from February to March 1986, so it was several months before the successful attempt back in Bensonville in June 1986. Calabrese noted that this surveillance operation included, apart from himself, Johnny Fecarotta, Jimmy DiForti, Frank Schweihs, and "Porky" (Calabrese did not know his legal name, but clearly, this was Fred Poradyla). This team had initially planned to murder the Spilotros in front of Tony's lawyer's office (presumably Oscar Goodman -- Schweihs had wanted to shoot them there with a silencer-equipped Uzi), but ultimately this was called off as the area was too busy and it was difficult to get the Spilotros in a position without witnesses etc. around.





Nick C testified that Fecarotta told him that the hit on the Spilotros was due to bringing "a lot of heat" to Vegas, including his "crew's" involvement with narcotics trafficking ("dealing with [...] a motorcycle gang dealing with drugs"), high profile burglaries ("something to do with [...] jewelry"), personal impropriety (sleeping with Ginger Rosenthal), and *possibly* participating in the unsanctioned bombing attempt on Lefty Rosenthal (Calabrese concedes that he didn't "know that for sure" but it seems like that's what he believed the case was).

Calabrese was only told these things in a vague conversation about them with another soldier, Fecarotta, and an associate, Schweihs. It didn't come from his captain or anyone else in the admin of the Family. But it's what we have and I think it makes more than enough sense.

Aiuppa and Cerone were convicted in the Strawman case in January of 1986, and it would seem that the hit on the Spilotros was ordered immediately after this given the timeline that Calabrese recalled. Tony S's years of high-profile antics in Vegas had almost certainly been seen as having brought Federal LE in the 1970s and 80s to attend more aggressively to LCN activities there, culminating in the conviction and imprisonment of the bosses and underbosses of both the Chicago and KC outfits (and a top Cleveland associate, Maishe Rockman, who was sentenced to 24 years). Whatever else Tony and Michael S may have done to rub guys the wrong way (spacconi attitudes, the whole Hollywood thing, whatever), this alone would have been enough to get you whacked.

Thanks for this background, Tony. Exactly what I was looking for. I had forgot that Nick's testimony went into this in detail. As you said, a sanctioned hit on a made member is typically something that is not always attributable to a single thing, but is usually a combination of gripes. It generally sounds like the Spilotros fucked up on multiple fronts.

To piggyback on what NorthBuffallo said, it does seem like there was a special angle to the actual hit. It sure seems like they wanted a clear message sent, and having members of every crew there is a way for word to spread about what happened. I suppose you could also argue that having everyone there was also just a cover regarding the "making ceremony" they were supposedly luring the Spilotros into, so there is that angle as well.

[B.]

Yeah, while the actual murder was a dark, quasi-ceremonial affair that comes across highly symbolic based on who attended, the fact that there was an aborted plot in Vegas that was anything but ceremonial tells us they simply wanted him gone and the circumstances of the actual murder were not intended to have any deeper meaning. I admit to getting taken by the "atmosphere" of the murder myself and making it out to be something more than it may have been.

Strong likelihood that all of those guys were invited to further enhance the "making ceremony" ruse. The killers may not have known exactly when the right opportunity would happen for violence to commence so the attendees were there to keep up the appearance of a ceremony until the time was right. There was also of course a need for many bodies given it was a very physical double murder.

[Snakes]

Frank Calabrese also said that it was DiFronzo's idea to do the sham making ceremony.

[Ivan]

Yeah, while the actual murder was a dark, quasi-ceremonial affair that comes across highly symbolic based on who attended, the fact that there was an aborted plot in Vegas that was anything but ceremonial tells us they simply wanted him gone and the circumstances of the actual murder were not intended to have any deeper meaning. I admit to getting taken by the "atmosphere" of the murder myself and making it out to be something more than it may have been.

I always thought the "they didn't even let him pray" detail was gratuitous, like something Calabrese added for dramatic effect. Dunno, fells "off" to me somehow. Might be way off base here.

[B.]

Yeah, while the actual murder was a dark, quasi-ceremonial affair that comes across highly symbolic based on who attended, the fact that there was an aborted plot in Vegas that was anything but ceremonial tells us they simply wanted him gone and the circumstances of the actual murder were not intended to have any deeper meaning. I admit to getting taken by the "atmosphere" of the murder myself and making it out to be something more than it may have been.

I always thought the "they didn't even let him pray" detail was gratuitous, like something Calabrese added for dramatic effect. Dunno, fells "off" to me somehow. Might be way off base here.

I don't get the impression Calabrese embellished anything. He comes across very cut-and-dry with all of his info. I think we tend to dramatize these things in our head, though, which is why I always imagine the Spilotro hit almost like some slow-motion Satanic ritual.

[NorthBuffalo]

Why beat these guys to death though and have so many crew bosses there? Why not use a gun or make it quick and cleaner?

There were more bosses there than Nick C's own making ceremony. Unless Spilotro was that suspicious and paranoid at the time that this was the only ruse that would work - I just think there was something more to it.

[Snakes]

Why beat these guys to death though and have so many crew bosses there? Why not use a gun or make it quick and cleaner?

There were more bosses there than Nick C's own making ceremony. Unless Spilotro was that suspicious and paranoid at the time that this was the only ruse that would work - I just think there was something more to it.

Gun really isn't all that cleaner, though. Blood, shell casings, etc. I don't think they were worried about law enforcement stumbling onto the scene of the crime but you don't want a lot of evidence that a murder happened. Beating and strangling seemed "safer", I suppose.

[cavita]

Why beat these guys to death though and have so many crew bosses there? Why not use a gun or make it quick and cleaner?

There were more bosses there than Nick C's own making ceremony. Unless Spilotro was that suspicious and paranoid at the time that this was the only ruse that would work - I just think there was something more to it.

Gun really isn't all that cleaner, though. Blood, shell casings, etc. I don't think they were worried about law enforcement stumbling onto the scene of the crime but you don't want a lot of evidence that a murder happened. Beating and strangling seemed "safer", I suppose.

Quieter than a gunshot in a respectable neighborhood.

[B.]

Not exactly a comparable situation given it took place in a moving vehicle but you could look at the Gerlando Sciascia murder where a Bonanno capodecina was the shooter and assume there was some symbolic reason for that given it's unheard of for a captain to pull the trigger and often they're not even at the scene but in reality there was no real rhyme or reason behind DeFilippo doing the shooting beyond practicality.

EDIT: Actually another good example is the three captains murder. The three rival Bonanno captains were lured to what they believed was a captain/admin meeting and naturally high-ranking members were there. Massino, a captain, assaulted one of the victims and Sciascia himself grabbed a gun and killed someone. It wasn't symbolic, it was just how the ruse was set up and these captains ended up participating in the violence.

Maybe there was something symbolic about having high-ranking Chicago members in attendance but it fits the making ceremony ruse and Calabrese said nothing to indicate there was more to it that he was aware of. Maybe they all hated Spilotro and wanted to see him die but it's not like they were going around to every capodecina beforehand saying "Hey, you want to see Tony meet his maker? Come along, it'll be fun."

Also as Tony posted, they were initially going to waste Spilotro with an uzi in Las Vegas so beating/strangulation doesn't seem to have any significance of its own as they were originally planning to use a gun anyway. Probably practical.

[Patrickgold]

Just heard Bobby Dominic was indicted and arrested today. I’ll post article when it comes up