Nove Tocco Q&A notes (31 Jan)

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Nove Tocco Q&A notes (31 Jan)

Post by JoePuzzles234 »

Some notes I took from the most recent Nove Tocco video on Scott B's Patreon.
• There were no Calabrian or Neapolitan Detroit members, under Joe Zerilli you had to be 100% Sicilian
• Jack W. Tocco was elected boss over Tony Zerilli primarily due to his prison issues
• Some captains did not like Tocco as the boss
• Nove Tocco met Milwaukee member John Balistrieri while in prison and kept in contact as late as the Gametax indictment
• Tocco met Pittsburgh members John LaRocca and Gabriel Mannarino with Tony Zerilli in Detroit
• Tocco and Big Paulie Corrado largely operated independently but performed favours for the family (the Giacalones, Anthony Palazzolo and Toccos etc.)
• Barbuit was very popular in Detroit
• One of the Jack Giacalones (I think he means Jack Vito) loved to gamble and would always attend Tocco’s craps games
• Nove Tocco says that William Bufalino is not a Detroit member
• Tocco knew both Robert LaPuma and Ronald Morelli and liked LaPuma more, who he also thought to be the toughest guy he ever met

Bill Bufalino apparently not being made is probably the most interesting thing to emerge from this Q&A. Not sure how what to make of it, given that Bufalino is listed as a member in both 1967 and then again in 1985. Inclusion that late would fall under some strict guidelines (attached) but we see some questionable names on the 1993 Detroit lists regardless.


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Re: Nove Tocco Q&A notes (31 Jan)

Post by chin_gigante »

Thanks for the notes, interesting stuff!
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Re: Nove Tocco Q&A notes (31 Jan)

Post by Patrickgold »

JoePuzzles234 wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 3:48 am Some notes I took from the most recent Nove Tocco video on Scott B's Patreon.
• There were no Calabrian or Neapolitan Detroit members, under Joe Zerilli you had to be 100% Sicilian
• Jack W. Tocco was elected boss over Tony Zerilli primarily due to his prison issues
• Some captains did not like Tocco as the boss
• Nove Tocco met Milwaukee member John Balistrieri while in prison and kept in contact as late as the Gametax indictment
• Tocco met Pittsburgh members John LaRocca and Gabriel Mannarino with Tony Zerilli in Detroit
• Tocco and Big Paulie Corrado largely operated independently but performed favours for the family (the Giacalones, Anthony Palazzolo and Toccos etc.)
• Barbuit was very popular in Detroit
• One of the Jack Giacalones (I think he means Jack Vito) loved to gamble and would always attend Tocco’s craps games
• Nove Tocco says that William Bufalino is not a Detroit member
• Tocco knew both Robert LaPuma and Ronald Morelli and liked LaPuma more, who he also thought to be the toughest guy he ever met

Bill Bufalino apparently not being made is probably the most interesting thing to emerge from this Q&A. Not sure how what to make of it, given that Bufalino is listed as a member in both 1967 and then again in 1985. Inclusion that late would fall under some strict guidelines (attached) but we see some questionable names on the 1993 Detroit lists regardless.



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So he confirmed John Balistrieri was a made member of the Milwaukee Family?
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Re: Nove Tocco Q&A notes (31 Jan)

Post by Adam »

He had some interesting information on the Katranis brothers. MIchael and Pete Katranis. Liked Michael but really didn't like Pete. Made him sound like a really really bad guy. But of course he ended up in the trunk of his car in 1972.
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Re: Nove Tocco Q&A notes (31 Jan)

Post by JoePuzzles234 »

Patrickgold wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 12:05 pm So he confirmed John Balistrieri was a made member of the Milwaukee Family?
Tocco did not call him a member but he was identified as such a while ago by LCN Bios

Probably buried in one of the files shared by Gavin Schmitt
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Re: Nove Tocco Q&A notes (31 Jan)

Post by motorfab »

Now that it's mentioned I don't recall a non-Sicilian in the Detroit Family.

Thanks for the share Joe (you should be in the blue users man !)
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Re: Nove Tocco Q&A notes (31 Jan)

Post by PolackTony »

motorfab wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 1:17 pm Now that it's mentioned I don't recall a non-Sicilian in the Detroit Family.

Thanks for the share Joe (you should be in the blue users man !)
The only one that I'm aware of was Joe Massei. And not only was his father Tuscan, I'm pretty sure, but his mother was Irish. He was an anomaly though for sure. B has discussed before a Detroit CI who noted the unique case of Massei and said that in the past, the Detroit outfit was less selective about ancestry (he also noted at that time, in the 1960s, Detroit guys refrained from discussing Massei's ancestry and that of his non-italian wife, as the topic was uncomfortable). I suspect that after the whole dust-up with Chester LaMare, Detroit was extremely wary about making any more non-Sicilians. The only other notable non-Sicilians that I am aware of with any status were the Di Iorio brothers, who had ancestry from Acerra, Napoli (incidentally a major Chicago hometown and historic hub of provincial Camorra activity in the old Caserta province; this put them in the same ancestry network as men like Diamond Joe Esposito, Vito Genovese, Paul Ricca, and the Ebolis, among others, which is worth noting). I have never seen them identified as LCN members by a member source, however, and don't know that either of them was ever made. It could also be important here that they were affiliated with the Priziola-Quasarano faction, rather than the dominant Tocco-Zerilli Favarottese group.

By all accounts, Detroit was one of the most conservative and traditional Families in the US. Not only did they seem to have excluded non-Sicilians from membership, I am not aware of any Eastern Sicilians in their ranks either, despite there having been some Messinesi etc in Detroit. Sicilian compaesano factions also mattered *a lot* in Detroit, with men from the Favarotta frazione of Terrasini forming a sort of elite group as compared to those from Partinico, Alcamo, Cinisi. A 1960s-era St Louis informant also claimed that the STL outfit restricted membership to men of Sicilian ancestry and we know that STL and Detroit had very close ties both in terms of the formal organization and associated compaesano networks from Terrasini and CInisi.

Now, I would also stress that even if they wanted to, there were also structural factors related to Italian settlement in Detroit that would have limited the recruitment of non-Sicilians. The Detroit Italian community was historically composed, in the main part, of Sicilians and Northern Italians. The same dynamic pertained to cities like STL, KC, Milwaukee, Madison, Rockford. In all of these, there were comparatively far fewer mainland Meridionali, so the dynamics of Italian communities in these places were markedly different than what occurred in cities like NYC, Chicago, Boston, or Philly. I tend to view this (the interplay of structural factors and the local sub-culture of a given Family) as a reinforcing cycle -- there were few Napolitani, Calabresi, Baresi, etc. around, leading to few recruits even early on from these backgrounds in a Family like Detroit and thus a further entrenching of a very traditional and Sicilian-centered culture. When you look at Detroit and STL, they had some powerful Jewish, Syrian, etc associates with them. But it wasn't like they had a bunch of Napolitani running around as associates but not getting made, as there were just few Napolitani found there.
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Re: Nove Tocco Q&A notes (31 Jan)

Post by motorfab »

Thanks for the info Tony, indeed I forgot about Massei
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Re: Nove Tocco Q&A notes (31 Jan)

Post by B. »

Image

Here is the remark about Massei.

Tocco's comment is unsurprising given the lack of counter-evidence beyond a couple exceptions. We don't know when Massei was made either -- it could have been during the period when LaMare was a top figure. My joke is that after LaMare's murder they said, "We're not doing that again. We're sticking to Sicilians."

There is also the wiretap of Providence-born Gambino member Andy Parillo meeting with Ray Patriarca and Joe Zerilli where Parillo is telling them about getting in trouble with the Gambinos for failing to follow proper protocol. Zerilli stops him and asks, "Where is your family from in Italy?" and Parillo responds, "Capri, the island." Comes across like Zerilli was thinking "This guy doesn't understand Cosa Nostra, he can't be Sicilian."
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Re: Nove Tocco Q&A notes (31 Jan)

Post by Honk »

Was Nove a first or second cousin to Jake Tocco? He references Joe Zerilli as being his grandfather (I think) so I’m confused on the family relationship.
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Re: Nove Tocco Q&A notes (31 Jan)

Post by Dr031718 »

Honk wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2025 2:58 pm Was Nove a first or second cousin to Jake Tocco? He references Joe Zerilli as being his grandfather (I think) so I’m confused on the family relationship.
Second cousins. His mother and jack Tocco were 1st cousins
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Re: Nove Tocco Q&A notes (31 Jan)

Post by Honk »

Dr031718 wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2025 3:06 pm
Honk wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2025 2:58 pm Was Nove a first or second cousin to Jake Tocco? He references Joe Zerilli as being his grandfather (I think) so I’m confused on the family relationship.
Second cousins. His mother and jack Tocco were 1st cousins
Thanks!
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Re: Nove Tocco Q&A notes (31 Jan)

Post by PolackTony »

Dr031718 wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2025 3:06 pm
Honk wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2025 2:58 pm Was Nove a first or second cousin to Jake Tocco? He references Joe Zerilli as being his grandfather (I think) so I’m confused on the family relationship.
Second cousins. His mother and jack Tocco were 1st cousins
I could be wrong and there are, of course, dense connections between some of these Detroit families. But Nove said himself that he is only related quite distantly to the other Toccos from back in Favarotta, Terrasini.

This matches with what I’ve found when looking into some of these people in the past. Nove’s dad was Paul J Tocco, whose dad in turn was Onofrio “Louis” Tocco of Favarotta (Nove’s namesake). I was able to trace back the genealogy of this family for several generations and saw no relation to Giacomo Tocco, father of Black Bill and grandfather/namesake of Jack Tocco. Now, Paul Tocco’s older brother Peter did marry Nicolina “Evelyn” Tocco (so, she was Evelyn Tocco Tocco lol), a daughter of Black Bill’s brother Giacomo Tocco Jr. Thus, Nove’s aunt by marriage was a first cousin of Jack Tocco. As people probably already know, Nove’s mother, Josephine Dolores Zerilli was a daughter of *the* Joe Zerilli. Joe Z’s mother, in turn, was Rosalia Tocco (lol). I’m unaware of the exact relation she would have add to either of this other Tocco families, though given that her father was named Pietro, I’d venture that she may have been related to Onofrio Tocco’s branch.

Again, I could be wrong but what I found seems to have been supported by Nove himself. Tocco, is, of course, one of the single most common surnames in the comune of Terrasini.
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Re: Nove Tocco Q&A notes (31 Jan)

Post by Honk »

PolackTony wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2025 5:04 pm
Dr031718 wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2025 3:06 pm
Honk wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2025 2:58 pm Was Nove a first or second cousin to Jake Tocco? He references Joe Zerilli as being his grandfather (I think) so I’m confused on the family relationship.
Second cousins. His mother and jack Tocco were 1st cousins
I could be wrong and there are, of course, dense connections between some of these Detroit families. But Nove said himself that he is only related quite distantly to the other Toccos from back in Favarotta, Terrasini.

This matches with what I’ve found when looking into some of these people in the past. Nove’s dad was Paul J Tocco, whose dad in turn was Onofrio “Louis” Tocco of Favarotta (Nove’s namesake). I was able to trace back the genealogy of this family for several generations and saw no relation to Giacomo Tocco, father of Black Bill and grandfather/namesake of Jack Tocco. Now, Paul Tocco’s older brother Peter did marry Nicolina “Evelyn” Tocco (so, she was Evelyn Tocco Tocco lol), a daughter of Black Bill’s brother Giacomo Tocco Jr. Thus, Nove’s aunt by marriage was a first cousin of Jack Tocco. As people probably already know, Nove’s mother, Josephine Dolores Zerilli was a daughter of *the* Joe Zerilli. Joe Z’s mother, in turn, was Rosalia Tocco (lol). I’m unaware of the exact relation she would have add to either of this other Tocco families, though given that her father was named Pietro, I’d venture that she may have been related to Onofrio Tocco’s branch.

Again, I could be wrong but what I found seems to have been supported by Nove himself. Tocco, is, of course, one of the single most common surnames in the comune of Terrasini.

Wow, that’s a great rundown. Now that you say it, I recall Nove saying that too.

Thanks!
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Re: Nove Tocco Q&A notes (31 Jan)

Post by Honk »

If these Tocco’s were connected to those Tocco’s that would be some serious interbreeding.

Always amazed at the connections within Detroit and then outside too with the Licata, Profaci and Bonanno. They’re all within 3-4 degrees of separation.
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