News from Italy

[scagghiuni]

They're still pushing the Ndrangheta is so much bigger, badder, and more powerful than Cosa Nostra narrative lol. I'd like to see a Cosa Nostra boss bowing down to an Ndrangheta chief, you won't find it haha.

They won't, you're right. I'm sure all of the groups - Camorra, Cosa Nostra & N'Drangheta all view a boss as equal no matter where in Italy they come from.

yes, they view eachother as equal, both in prison and outside, on the other hand, at 41 bis there are more Sicilians and Neapolitans than Calabrians, the Ndrangheta is considered stronger only because of the greater control of cocaine trafficking

[scagghiuni]

It gets tiring when they constantly stress "attempt to rebuild," they have a hard time admitting that Cosa Nostra is making a serious comeback. Maybe not like the days when they controlled the Vatican and Silvio Berlusconi, but they keep downplaying and underestimating them.

i'm agree, the resilience of Cosa Nostra is staggering considering that it has been hit hard since the early 1990s, they continue to underestimate it while the chief prosecutor De Lucia underlined that there were many young people in the maxi-blitz, Cosa Nostra still attracts a lot

[CabriniGreen]

They're still pushing the Ndrangheta is so much bigger, badder, and more powerful than Cosa Nostra narrative lol. I'd like to see a Cosa Nostra boss bowing down to an Ndrangheta chief, you won't find it haha.

No. They just have more money right now. And better devices to generate raw liquidity. They also seemed to masters at handling debt and bankruptcies.

I wouldnt get too into the "My Mafia is better than your Mafia" type thinking. They arnt sports teams.

Even the Stiddari sit down with bosses and break bread.

I saw an article recently where Grattierri marveled at the Naples guys facility with the Dark Web.

Cosa Nostra has basically been in stasis for 25 years.
If the Corleonesi were dynamic and innovative and resourceful enough to meet the organizations needs, they would have never taken back the Inzerillos or Micalizzi.

They blew up Falcone and got hung out to dry.

[CabriniGreen]

They're still pushing the Ndrangheta is so much bigger, badder, and more powerful than Cosa Nostra narrative lol. I'd like to see a Cosa Nostra boss bowing down to an Ndrangheta chief, you won't find it haha.

They won't, you're right. I'm sure all of the groups - Camorra, Cosa Nostra & N'Drangheta all view a boss as equal no matter where in Italy they come from.

yes, they view eachother as equal, both in prison and outside, on the other hand, at 41 bis there are more Sicilians and Neapolitans than Calabrians, the Ndrangheta is considered stronger only because of the greater control of cocaine trafficking

It's literally this. Not public works, not better extortion networks, not any control of a legitimate industry.

I would love to see an analysis of market share. The Sicilians seem to want to take the place the Albanians occupy in the European trade. But the Albanians are very connected in South America...so it will be interesting to see how it plays out...

[scagghiuni]

They're still pushing the Ndrangheta is so much bigger, badder, and more powerful than Cosa Nostra narrative lol. I'd like to see a Cosa Nostra boss bowing down to an Ndrangheta chief, you won't find it haha.

They won't, you're right. I'm sure all of the groups - Camorra, Cosa Nostra & N'Drangheta all view a boss as equal no matter where in Italy they come from.

yes, they view eachother as equal, both in prison and outside, on the other hand, at 41 bis there are more Sicilians and Neapolitans than Calabrians, the Ndrangheta is considered stronger only because of the greater control of cocaine trafficking

It's literally this. Not public works, not better extortion networks, not any control of a legitimate industry.

I would love to see an analysis of market share. The Sicilians seem to want to take the place the Albanians occupy in the European trade. But the Albanians are very connected in South America...so it will be interesting to see how it plays out...

Ndrangheta is considered stronger because in addition to political connections, the extortion ring, the control of public works and legitimates industries it also has a wider control of cocaine ... the Sicilians, after having dominated the heroin market for decades, missed the boat on the cocaine market in the 1990s, compared to the Albanians they have the advantage of being a single centralized organization but they are less widespread, they currently only control the wholesale market in Sicily

[Laughmatics]

We've seen Cosa Nostra asset seizures that rival any involving the Camorra or Ndrangheta. They seized ~$5 billion tied to Matteo Messina Denaro, in the names of businessmen he controlled. I think asset seizures could be a good indicator of the health of a criminal organization. You get to see their economic strength and what industries they control. I think all of these organizations work side by side. It just sounds good for the papers to constantly mention the Ndrangheta overtaking Cosa Nostra, especially with it being the world's most famous crime syndicate due in large part to The Godfather. After a while, it begins to sound like a sort of cliche. At the end of the day, though, I'm sure overall they are more wealthy and powerful.

[CabriniGreen]

We've seen Cosa Nostra asset seizures that rival any involving the Camorra or Ndrangheta. They seized ~$5 billion tied to Matteo Messina Denaro, in the names of businessmen he controlled. I think asset seizures could be a good indicator of the health of a criminal organization. You get to see their economic strength and what industries they control. I think all of these organizations work side by side. It just sounds good for the papers to constantly mention the Ndrangheta overtaking Cosa Nostra, especially with it being the world's most famous crime syndicate due in large part to The Godfather. After a while, it begins to sound like a sort of cliche. At the end of the day, though, I'm sure overall they are more wealthy and powerful.

No. What you are doing is something Franzese talked about in his book. You see Denaro's control of the wind businessmen, (which isnt the same as ACTUALLY holding a billion in assets) and you want to make it a homogeneous thing across the WHOLE mafia. He controls billions in wind subsidies, so they MUST ALL do it too....right? Like. ...if I see the Batanesi involved in swindling land subsidies, that's something THEY are doing. Same with the huge Agrigento wine business.

Have we heard of the Palermo or Agrigento or Catania people in the wind farms? Or was this a Trapani thing? Serious question...

The authorities have Sicilians managing the open air market to build liquidity. If they could have just skimmed the wind subsidies fornfree billions, I'm sure they would have. They didn't skimp on the covid money.

[Laughmatics]

Well, regardless, I'm tired of hearing the whole Cosa Nostra is being overtaken by the Ndrangheta spill, it's actually becoming cringe. Everyone's always looking for the next big thing, it sells papers. In reality, Cosa Nostra, Camorra, and Ndrangheta godfathers break bread as equals and run joint ventures.

[Laughmatics]

It could very well be that only the Trapani branch of Cosa Nostra is involved in the wind farm industry. I've also seen an Ndrangheta clan involved, perhaps the Arena Clan? Can't recall.

We need more detail-specific articles about what exactly all the different clans are doing, not these overly-generalized pieces coming out.

[PolackTony]

Yeah, it was the Arena ‘ndrina in Crotone province who was invested in a wind farm project in their home base of Isola di Capo Rizzuto via shell companies etc. The wind farm was seized by the authorities in 2012. I don’t recall seeing anything else about ‘ndranghetisti being involved in wind since, but of course would not at all be surprising if there has been more of this going on.

[Etna]

Much of the 'Ndrangheta overtaking Cosa Nostra is merely a press thing over emphasized by the media. Simply put, the 'Ndrangheta took over the cocaine trade from Cosa Nostra due to the law's onslaught on the Corleonesi. No territory in Sicily was ever ceded from Cosa Nostra to the 'Ndrangheta. If anything, Cosa Nostra knew - even in Provenzano's days, that you have to stick with the basics and be more conservative to escape the law's scope - as much as possible. We all know that whoever runs the drug trade is high priority for the police in any country. The only place there's a lot of interaction is probably in the cities of Messina and Reggio di Calabria since those folks cross paths on opposite sides of the straits of Messina. This isn't new.