Montreal Mafia status - Post Rizzuto Era

[antimafia]

^^^^
Below is a link to a death notice for Silva’s father. The original online obituary from the funeral home is no longer available.

https://www.domainefuneraire.com/avis-d ... etro-silva

I have to eat some crow on the other forum for asserting that Silva wasn’t Italian.

His career trajectory may have struck me as odd, as did the fact that police stated he could speak only English and French, but neither my impressions nor his only spoken languages change the reality that he has Italian ancestry on his father’s side.

[antimafia]

Pietro Silva is mentioned in this small news item from the Nov. 5, 2005 edition of The Gazette (Montreal).

[chin_gigante]

There's another mention in this new series of articles about Silva joining the Rizzuto family after the murder of Ducarme Joseph.

Two days later, Frédérick Silva, who organised the assassination, is summoned to a café by two influential members of the Sicilian clan of the Montreal mafia. They invite him to walk down an alley and tell him that members of the Rizzuto family cried upon hearing the news.

The two mafiosi also tell him that he is now part of the family, he, Frédérick Silva, who started from nothing 20 years earlier.

I'm still split 50/50 on what this actually means. It could be an impromptu verbal induction ceremony to acknowledge Silva as a cosa nostra member, but I remain hesitant to double down on that interpretation. The context of it taking place immediately after the successful completion of a murder is compelling, but we're still missing a lot of vital details. Crucially, we don't know who the two men were who met him at the cafe or, if he did indeed join an organisation, what organisation he joined (i.e., was it a Bonanno decina, an independent family, or something else).

There are also other interpretations that I could see some merit in based on what we have. Was this Silva being officially put on record with the Rizzutos? Or was he simply being told that he was now considered part of the immediate personal Rizzuto family because they were so grateful that he had killed the man responsible for the murder of one of their own?

It's very interesting either way, and I'd be very interested to find out more. Hopefully Silva is one day used as a witness in a trial and we can get some more details.

[Newyorkempire]

It's already been confirmed many times the Rizzutos were no longer Bonnanos

[antimafia]

Working on Fréderick Silva’s family tree:

Marriage record for his parents:





Voters’ list in 1974 for St. Michel, in Montreal. Silva’s parents and paternal grandparents lived at 9021 Rochette:

[antimafia]

Pietro Silva is mentioned in this small news item from the Nov. 5, 2005 edition of The Gazette (Montreal).

A fellow Gangster BB poster found two articles online, one of which only mentions Pietro Silva’s associate — Adriano Pezzi — but alludes to their 2005 arrest. The first article has photos of them both and is about the same scam.

https://www.tvanouvelles.ca/2005/11/02/ ... -fraudeurs

https://montrealgazette.com/news/local- ... ng-elderly

[chin_gigante]

I asked Daniel Renaud about Silva becoming a member and he kindly got back to me:

Je dirais plutôt devenu membre de la famille à titre non officiel, avec une certaine influence et en mesure de participer à certaines décision.

So he's veering on the side of Silva not being an inducted member.

[Tonyd621]

There's another mention in this new series of articles about Silva joining the Rizzuto family after the murder of Ducarme Joseph.

Two days later, Frédérick Silva, who organised the assassination, is summoned to a café by two influential members of the Sicilian clan of the Montreal mafia. They invite him to walk down an alley and tell him that members of the Rizzuto family cried upon hearing the news.

The two mafiosi also tell him that he is now part of the family, he, Frédérick Silva, who started from nothing 20 years earlier.

I'm still split 50/50 on what this actually means. It could be an impromptu verbal induction ceremony to acknowledge Silva as a cosa nostra member, but I remain hesitant to double down on that interpretation. The context of it taking place immediately after the successful completion of a murder is compelling, but we're still missing a lot of vital details. Crucially, we don't know who the two men were who met him at the cafe or, if he did indeed join an organisation, what organisation he joined (i.e., was it a Bonanno decina, an independent family, or something else).

There are also other interpretations that I could see some merit in based on what we have. Was this Silva being officially put on record with the Rizzutos? Or was he simply being told that he was now considered part of the immediate personal Rizzuto family because they were so grateful that he had killed the man responsible for the murder of one of their own?

It's very interesting either way, and I'd be very interested to find out more. Hopefully Silva is one day used as a witness in a trial and we can get some more details.

How does this work Canada? Would this bring indictments to the Rizzuto(s) or what's left of them?

[antimafia]

I asked Daniel Renaud about Silva becoming a member and he kindly got back to me:

Je dirais plutôt devenu membre de la famille à titre non officiel, avec une certaine influence et en mesure de participer à certaines décision.

So he's veering on the side of Silva not being an inducted member.

Thanks for asking him, and kudos to you for getting a response. He said on a popular French-language TV news show last night that since last Friday morning, it has been surreal for him and his wife to see his name, image, and story about being a target now plastered all over the media and the Net.

I will try to message him for clarifications on Friday, as we expect to virtually view the same sentencing for a Quebec organized-crime figure who moved to Ontario. I’d like to ask him whether Silva considering himself "inducted" into the Rizzuto "family" is different from Andrea Scoppa being deemed by Renaud as a "man of honour" who is "independent" — these last two terms, when placed in the order "independent man of honour," are an oxymoron.

[dixiemafia]

I rephrase this. As chin say in English "When he flipped in 2022, Silva told investigators that the Rizzutos no longer made 'men of honour' and the war between the Calabrians and Sicilians still wasn't over"

Which means that according to Silva the Rizzutos "made" themselves men of honor. Which implies if we follow Silva's reasoning that Montreal would be an independent Family (therefore no longer under the authority of the Bonannos).

That's the way I understand it in French but it's my own interpretation of what Silva says

For the record I have hard time to believe they're an indepedant Family.

Silva is not Italian? This confirms what I think.

For the rest, it's hell of informations if it is true (crazy the contract on Daniel Renaud's head. Also very stupid)

I would say that they may not have had making ceremonies for a while now, if Andrew Scoppa was correct in what he said (I have no reason to doubt it) he pretty much all but said he didn't have a making ceremony himself but yet he was considered a part of the family and even acting boss at one point supposedly.

The Rizzuto's definitely are independent. They proved they didn't give a shit about the Bonanno's when they were ready to kill Montagna as well, Desjardins just beat them to the punch. It was a matter of time before the Rizzuto's killed him themselves.

You'd think Montreal gangsters would be done with journalists after all the bullshit they've been busted for in hurting them in the past. If I'm not mistaken in the Scoppa book he mentioned Del Balso called and threatened Felix as well.

[dixiemafia]

Silva also joins a small list of non-Italian men who were allegedly part of this "Rizzuto family." The others being Juan Fernandez and Raynald Desjardins, although I believe Desjardins' texts to Mirarchi in 2011 discredits Fernandez's claims

I've come to realize Juan was full of shit.

Raynald was even caught on wiretap (mentioned in the Scoppa book) that if they had cards for the mafia he would send it back like a credit card. Granted I doubt anyone would admit over the phone they were in the mafia, but the way he seemed to have said it makes me think he definitely doesn't regard himself as a made man.

Also it seems Vito Rizzuto has done whatever he wanted for years now, and it definitely seems he didn't care to keep with traditions when it came to making people. Now as Scoppa said the way he treated everyone tied to them I could definitely see people getting the wrong impressions or ideas (like with Juan maybe thinking he and Raynald were made) but Juan was definitely a bragger and made himself seem more important than he really was and as we know he wasn't quite as important as he thought when they pumped him full of bullets.

[chin_gigante]

I will try to message him for clarifications on Friday, as we expect to virtually view the same sentencing for a Quebec organized-crime figure who moved to Ontario. I’d like to ask him whether Silva considering himself "inducted" into the Rizzuto "family" is different from Andrea Scoppa being deemed by Renaud as a "man of honour" who is "independent" — these last two terms, when placed in the order "independent man of honour," are an oxymoron.

That's a good question. Renaud has been quite conservative (I believe for good reason) when it comes to labelling individuals as "hommes d'honneur" and it's clear from the context in which he uses the term that it refers to inducted members. The labelling of Scoppa as an "independent" like you pointed out is I think the most questionable instance of it.

Something I've been thinking about recently is the disbanding of the honoured society in Naples in the early 20th century and how organised crime continued without the same formal structures and rituals. I wonder if the same thing has happened in Montreal following the death of Vito Rizzuto and the murders of the other "men of honour" around that same time. We can often get stuck on when (if at all) the Rizzuto group went from being a Bonanno decina to an independent borgata, but perhaps the criminal organisation headed today by Leonardo Rizzuto and Stefano Sollecito is not even a formally structured cosa nostra group at all.

[CabriniGreen]

I will try to message him for clarifications on Friday, as we expect to virtually view the same sentencing for a Quebec organized-crime figure who moved to Ontario. I’d like to ask him whether Silva considering himself "inducted" into the Rizzuto "family" is different from Andrea Scoppa being deemed by Renaud as a "man of honour" who is "independent" — these last two terms, when placed in the order "independent man of honour," are an oxymoron.

That's a good question. Renaud has been quite conservative (I believe for good reason) when it comes to labelling individuals as "hommes d'honneur" and it's clear from the context in which he uses the term that it refers to inducted members. The labelling of Scoppa as an "independent" like you pointed out is I think the most questionable instance of it.

Something I've been thinking about recently is the disbanding of the honoured society in Naples in the early 20th century and how organised crime continued without the same formal structures and rituals. I wonder if the same thing has happened in Montreal following the death of Vito Rizzuto and the murders of the other "men of honour" around that same time. We can often get stuck on when (if at all) the Rizzuto group went from being a Bonanno decina to an independent borgata, but perhaps the criminal organisation headed today by Leonardo Rizzuto and Stefano Sollecito is not even a formally structured cosa nostra group at all.

I've been waiting for a post like this. I really have been wanting to go in on this... but the pushback can be exhausting. Gotta get all my thoughts together..

[OcSleeper]

Roberto Scoppa demeurera détenu durant les procédures
https://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/just ... edures.php

Roberto Scoppa denied bail while he challenges extradition request
https://montrealgazette.com/news/robert ... on-request

Accused of drug trafficking in the United States: one of the Scoppa brothers hopes to stay in Quebec
https://www.journaldemontreal.com/2024/ ... -au-quebec

[antimafia]

Roberto Scoppa demeurera détenu durant les procédures
https://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/just ... edures.php

Roberto Scoppa denied bail while he challenges extradition request
https://montrealgazette.com/news/robert ... on-request

Accused of drug trafficking in the United States: one of the Scoppa brothers hopes to stay in Quebec
https://www.journaldemontreal.com/2024/ ... -au-quebec

« La preuve est constituée de ouï-dire », déclarent les avocats du mafioso montréalais
https://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/just ... ealais.php