General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

[Snakes]

This info isn’t very accessible in the sense that it isn’t compiled in one place but has been discussed in detail here previously, many times over now.

The FBI had poor insight into the Chicago Family in the 1960s and 70s, with only a couple of member informants, and even these seem to have provided little in-depth intel on the membership and structure of the organization (many of the FBI’s Chicago sources in this period were either associates or even people who were not formally affiliated with the organization in any meaningful way and thus had little to no insight into how things actually were set up and gave distorted or partial accounts: the problem of the “Blind Men and the Elephant”).

As no Chicago member source specified or estimated the total membership of the Family (Chicago had no Joe Valachi), the best sources we have are from NYC Families. In the early 60s, Genovese captain Ray DeCarlo was recorded discussing Chicago with other members in NJ and stated that they had around 50 members total. Later in the 60s, FBI confidential informant Greg Scarpa reported back from a Colombo Family meeting, where Joe Colombo had discussed Chicago and again reported that their membership was about 50 (Colombo told his Family in this same meeting that Chicago had an associate that had killed more people than the entire Colombo Family combined). Worth noting that in both cases, Chicago’s more restrictive membership numbers were seen as a positive, with both DeCarlo and Colombo advocating that their own Families should emulate that model.

Based on the evidence that we do have for Chicago, it seems to have always operated as a highly clandestine and in many ways very “traditional” Family, with a high level of internal security (members only having access to info on a “need to know” basis), little gossip or discussion of organizational LCN matters around outsiders, and a low tolerance for failure on the part of its membership (members being killed for messing up hits, for “honor” reasons such as not killing an unfaithful wife). They were deadly serious about the “secret” part of “secret society”. Having a relatively low membership — in relation to the size of the metro area and its Italian population as well as the scope of criminal activities controlled in whole or part by the mafia — is in line with this general picture of conservatism and secrecy. They didn’t make nearly as many guys as they could have and, like other conservative Midwestern Families, placed a high premium on the ability to commit murder on behalf of the organization, which had comparatively declined as a prerequisite for members in NYC.

By the time that the FBI released a Chicago members list in 1985 based on its updated protocols for LCN member identification (which were overhauled in the early 80s, as the laxer standards employed previously allowed for many unreliable member identifications), they had just under 50 guys listed. We know of a few confirmed members not listed there, but even with a couple of “sleepers”, which Chicago always had, the plausible membership at that time would very unlikely have been over 60. Interesting to note that this was in the same range that DeCarlo and Scarpa/Colombo had given ~20 years prior. Snakes gave an upper range estimate of 75 to 100. He’s being generous because of uncertainty, I think, but this would be the *absolute maximum* range. I’d be very surprised if Chicago ever had more than 75 members myself, and this for a metro area of 9 million people, one of the largest Italian populations in the US, and a very old and deeply implanted mafia tradition and longstanding OC subculture. In other words, Chicago almost certainly never had a membership approaching even the smaller NYC Families, or Buffalo, for that matter, but was in the range of Families like Philly and NE, historically.

I gave 100 as the upper range to account for any inactive "legacy" members hanging around, possibly dating from pre-Capone days. As far as active guys, I'd say 50 to 60 is a very reasonable take for that time period, but as we've mentioned numerous times, it's hard to get an accurate account because of the lack of source material. We can only give accurate details on three making ceremonies (who got made, time frame, etc.) in the organization's history and the one from 1956 has incomplete information.

[PolackTony]

Anyways, back to real information that matters to people who follow these threads - would be interested for anyone's perspective on The Park Boys or what loanshark ring the Giuliano's were connected to within the late 1990s.

Im aware of the Giuliano brothers’ bust in the late 90s but don’t have any further info apart from what you’ve seen already. I can say that I was told by someone within the last couple of years, not a guy from Chicago, that one of the Giuliano brothers is reputed to be affiliated with the “Cicero crew”, but as this individual is not affiliated with Chicago, he was not in the position to verify that info.

Mike Sarno was reputed to have been a Park Boy as well. Park Boys was an Italian club that started around 15th and Austin in Cicero; they also had a chapter in Berwyn. Heavily active in the 70s, closely allied with the Players and the Noble Knights; they began to decline as a street presence in the 90s. The Giulianos and Billy LaPiana, who you posted about, were a later generation of members than guys like Sarno. Billy LaPiana died in 2007. I believe that his father, John LaPiana, is a first cousin of Detroit outfit member Anthony LaPiana (the LaPianas were a Calabrian family from Taylor St that moved out to the burbs in the 60s).

[pat_marcy]

Thanks for the information Tony. Really appreciate that mate.

[pat_marcy]

If I want to ask any further questions what forum is the best to do it in? Or best forum to go through for its history and making ceremonies etc

[Snakes]

If I want to ask any further questions what forum is the best to do it in? Or best forum to go through for its history and making ceremonies etc

For Chicago? Here and a couple other threads. Good luck with all the pages lol

[7digits]

According to a wiretaps of Solly Delaurentis in 1989 they had roughly 75

[7digits]

He was telling that to BJ Johoda and saying how even though the NY Families had hundreds of members Chicago was better ran

[B.]

Never heard of that. Where can someone read it?

[PolackTony]

Unless someone actually has the trial transcripts for this case, which are not on PACER, I don’t know that this can be read as indicating 75 *members* (context and verbatim language used means a lot when parsing evidence like this). The Tribune in 1990 reported that DeLaurentis claimed that there were “75-80 full-time thugs”, but what DeLaurentis actually said is not verbatim reproduced. Assuming that DeLaurentis was referring to members and important associates (Schweihs, Swiatek, Bamboulas, etc), then this would not be out of alignment with the estimated range of 50-60 members based on the 1985 list:

[B.]

Given what we know of Chicago and Nick Calabrese's account, it's also unlikely a newly-made member like DeLaurentis knew the exact number of members and was simply communicating the point that Chicago was smaller than the NYC Families. DeLaurentis may have understood there were more than a few dozen but fewer than 100 and threw an estimate out there to make his basic point.

[7digits]

He literally says members. I will post it

[pat_marcy]

So when you say members this is just Italians yes? Cause over the years they’ve had people like gus Alex, humphries etc who are not Italian obviously but you’d say they were members of the outfit

[Snakes]

It's tough for me to imagine 30+ made members flying under the radar between the 46 listed by the FBI in 1985 and the 48 listed in 1993 (which also included Rockford members -- who were not part of Chicago). Even if we add the members we know were made at the time, we'd still only be in the 50s. The 1982 FBI chart which had members and "significant" associates only had 70. I think his expression is open to interpretation, though.

[Wiseguy]

That quote regarding DeLaurentis is suspect too being as the New York families never had 300 members each.

If you look at the figures from the FBI from 1984 to 1999, they only ranged from 41-51 members. Though to be fair, I tried to make a list a while back of members who were alive since 1999 and there were 58 names.

[Snakes]

That quote regarding DeLaurentis is suspect too being as the New York families never had 300 members each.

If you look at the figures from the FBI from 1984 to 1999, they only ranged from 41-51 members. Though to be fair, I tried to make a list a while back of members who were alive since 1999 and there were 58 names.

I estimated 50-60 was their "peak" max up to the 1990s indictments. It was a pretty significant decline after that.