General Mob Questions

[Uncle Pete]

Who are some of the guys from Messina? And do you happen to know if they were from the city or the northern area of the province like Barcellona Pozzo di Gotto? That area seems to have more activity today then the city itself right?

Thanks in advance!

[Raven]

Was frank Costellos brother Edward an initiated member? I’ve never read any specific info about it but have seen that he was made but no sources are ever listed.

[Etna]

Does anyone know how the DeCavalcantes were able to get crews in New York started and around when that happened?

[B.]

The DeCavalcantes' original Manhattan-Queens group (termed the Family's "old faction" by an FBI informant) likely predates the existence of the New Jersey branch of the Family. The Brooklyn faction in turn was separate from the Manhattan-Queens group but basically started when Frank Cocchiaro (who had roots in the former group) was made capodecina and eventually sponsored a bunch of local Brooklyn/Staten Island gangsters. Then other guys who operated in Manhattan were recruited into the Brooklyn faction but these Manhattan guys weren't rooted in the original Manhattan-Queens group, at least not directly.

But anyway, the original New York group of the Family could go back to the 1890s/early 1900s and then branched into Elizabeth when the Merlos moved there around 1907 and many more Riberesi moved there in the 1910s/20s.

[Antiliar]

Who are some of the guys from Messina? And do you happen to know if they were from the city or the northern area of the province like Barcellona Pozzo di Gotto? That area seems to have more activity today then the city itself right?

Thanks in advance!

If I recall correctly Umberto Valenti was from Barcellona. Tony Lombardo of Chicago was also from Messina, as were early Mafiosi Nicola Taranto and Candelario Bettini.

[Harrism]

The DeCavalcantes' original Manhattan-Queens group (termed the Family's "old faction" by an FBI informant) likely predates the existence of the New Jersey branch of the Family. The Brooklyn faction in turn was separate from the Manhattan-Queens group but basically started when Frank Cocchiaro (who had roots in the former group) was made capodecina and eventually sponsored a bunch of local Brooklyn/Staten Island gangsters. Then other guys who operated in Manhattan were recruited into the Brooklyn faction but these Manhattan guys weren't rooted in the original Manhattan-Queens group, at least not directly.

But anyway, the original New York group of the Family could go back to the 1890s/early 1900s and then branched into Elizabeth when the Merlos moved there around 1907 and many more Riberesi moved there in the 1910s/20s.

Thanks for the information. This makes me wonder whether the Decalvecantes played a role in the 1930-31 war in New York.

[pat_marcy]

Been slowly making my way through the Chicago info dumping page which I must admit is quite the grind at times. Some interesting stuff in there but its hard to get through it all on your phone!
Anyways I asked on there about Chicago today and how many made guys they have. Was told 10-20 is a realistic number of confirmed made guys. So putting made guys aside I was just curious if there is any associates or people who could possibly made active there? I get there’s criteria people follow on here to confirm made guys but I’m assuming there’s action going on there with “connected” Italians at least.

[gohnjotti]

Does anyone remember a wiretap or perhaps simply court testimony regarding John Gotti wanting to get into the gas tax scam, essentially asking questions to his associates on how to get involved? I seem to remember reading it in Capeci's book about Gotti but I don't have access to it right now.

[Pogo The Clown]

Does anyone remember a wiretap or perhaps simply court testimony regarding John Gotti wanting to get into the gas tax scam, essentially asking questions to his associates on how to get involved? I seem to remember reading it in Capeci's book about Gotti but I don't have access to it right now.

I remember one of the OC documentaries mentioning this as well. Gotti referred to the Russians involved in the scam as “smart Russians”.


Pogo

[Ivan]

Did Strawman I and II in Las Vegas (the cases against the midwest bosses) actually make use of the RICO statute?

[nizarsoccer]

Does anyone remember a wiretap or perhaps simply court testimony regarding John Gotti wanting to get into the gas tax scam, essentially asking questions to his associates on how to get involved? I seem to remember reading it in Capeci's book about Gotti but I don't have access to it right now.

https://mafiabookreviews.com/2023/06/08 ... -gasoline/

I saved the entire transcript of the conversation referenced in Capeci's book here. Galizia and Gotti discuss the gas scam initially within the context of Michael Franzese and towards the end Gotti starts talking about getting involved.

By March 1987 Anthony Morelli from the Gambino Family is already involved sit-downs involving gas disputes with Edward Dougherty where Morelli was protecting an unnamed third party. Who they are or when the Gambino's actually got their first gas/Russian associates remains a mystery to me.

[gohnjotti]

Does anyone remember a wiretap or perhaps simply court testimony regarding John Gotti wanting to get into the gas tax scam, essentially asking questions to his associates on how to get involved? I seem to remember reading it in Capeci's book about Gotti but I don't have access to it right now.

https://mafiabookreviews.com/2023/06/08 ... -gasoline/

I saved the entire transcript of the conversation referenced in Capeci's book here. Galizia and Gotti discuss the gas scam initially within the context of Michael Franzese and towards the end Gotti starts talking about getting involved.

By March 1987 Anthony Morelli from the Gambino Family is already involved sit-downs involving gas disputes with Edward Dougherty where Morelli was protecting an unnamed third party. Who they are or when the Gambino's actually got their first gas/Russian associates remains a mystery to me.

I was wondering if Vic Orena may have helped Gotti into the gas scam as a favor, but if Gotti was involved by 1987 then that might be a bit early for the timeline. We know Vic was helping out Gotti at least two years later by whacking Tommy Ocera as a favor.

[nizarsoccer]

Does anyone remember a wiretap or perhaps simply court testimony regarding John Gotti wanting to get into the gas tax scam, essentially asking questions to his associates on how to get involved? I seem to remember reading it in Capeci's book about Gotti but I don't have access to it right now.

https://mafiabookreviews.com/2023/06/08 ... -gasoline/

I saved the entire transcript of the conversation referenced in Capeci's book here. Galizia and Gotti discuss the gas scam initially within the context of Michael Franzese and towards the end Gotti starts talking about getting involved.

By March 1987 Anthony Morelli from the Gambino Family is already involved sit-downs involving gas disputes with Edward Dougherty where Morelli was protecting an unnamed third party. Who they are or when the Gambino's actually got their first gas/Russian associates remains a mystery to me.

I was wondering if Vic Orena may have helped Gotti into the gas scam as a favor, but if Gotti was involved by 1987 then that might be a bit early for the timeline. We know Vic was helping out Gotti at least two years later by whacking Tommy Ocera as a favor.

Orena was involved a lot earlier than I think is generally believed or Michael Franzese lets on. In the transcript, Gotti already mentions disgruntled gas associates moving to Orena's banner. In October 1985, Joseph Galizia was seen meeting with Orena and his lawyer Dennis Pappas multiples times with various gas associates. Thomas Petrizzo who was close to Orena was already surveilled meeting with Russian gas associates in November 1985 (before Franzese went to jail).

In that PBD-sponsored sit-down between him and Sammy, Michael gives a bizarre story where he claims that Orena tried to move into the gas scheme as early as 1982 with the the backing of John Gotti. Don't think that really lines up with the the actual timeline, Gotti's conversation with Galizia, etc.

[gohnjotti]

Does anyone remember a wiretap or perhaps simply court testimony regarding John Gotti wanting to get into the gas tax scam, essentially asking questions to his associates on how to get involved? I seem to remember reading it in Capeci's book about Gotti but I don't have access to it right now.

https://mafiabookreviews.com/2023/06/08 ... -gasoline/

I saved the entire transcript of the conversation referenced in Capeci's book here. Galizia and Gotti discuss the gas scam initially within the context of Michael Franzese and towards the end Gotti starts talking about getting involved.

By March 1987 Anthony Morelli from the Gambino Family is already involved sit-downs involving gas disputes with Edward Dougherty where Morelli was protecting an unnamed third party. Who they are or when the Gambino's actually got their first gas/Russian associates remains a mystery to me.

I was wondering if Vic Orena may have helped Gotti into the gas scam as a favor, but if Gotti was involved by 1987 then that might be a bit early for the timeline. We know Vic was helping out Gotti at least two years later by whacking Tommy Ocera as a favor.

Orena was involved a lot earlier than I think is generally believed or Michael Franzese lets on. In the transcript, Gotti already mentions disgruntled gas associates moving to Orena's banner. In October 1985, Joseph Galizia was seen meeting with Orena and his lawyer Dennis Pappas multiples times with various gas associates. Thomas Petrizzo who was close to Orena was already surveilled meeting with Russian gas associates in November 1985 (before Franzese went to jail).

In that PBD-sponsored sit-down between him and Sammy, Michael gives a bizarre story where he claims that Orena tried to move into the gas scheme as early as 1982 with the the backing of John Gotti. Don't think that really lines up with the the actual timeline, Gotti's conversation with Galizia, etc.

Interesting, never knew you were behind that Mafia Book Reviews website either, it's great stuff Nizar.

[nizarsoccer]

Does anyone remember a wiretap or perhaps simply court testimony regarding John Gotti wanting to get into the gas tax scam, essentially asking questions to his associates on how to get involved? I seem to remember reading it in Capeci's book about Gotti but I don't have access to it right now.

https://mafiabookreviews.com/2023/06/08 ... -gasoline/

I saved the entire transcript of the conversation referenced in Capeci's book here. Galizia and Gotti discuss the gas scam initially within the context of Michael Franzese and towards the end Gotti starts talking about getting involved.

By March 1987 Anthony Morelli from the Gambino Family is already involved sit-downs involving gas disputes with Edward Dougherty where Morelli was protecting an unnamed third party. Who they are or when the Gambino's actually got their first gas/Russian associates remains a mystery to me.

I was wondering if Vic Orena may have helped Gotti into the gas scam as a favor, but if Gotti was involved by 1987 then that might be a bit early for the timeline. We know Vic was helping out Gotti at least two years later by whacking Tommy Ocera as a favor.

Orena was involved a lot earlier than I think is generally believed or Michael Franzese lets on. In the transcript, Gotti already mentions disgruntled gas associates moving to Orena's banner. In October 1985, Joseph Galizia was seen meeting with Orena and his lawyer Dennis Pappas multiples times with various gas associates. Thomas Petrizzo who was close to Orena was already surveilled meeting with Russian gas associates in November 1985 (before Franzese went to jail).

In that PBD-sponsored sit-down between him and Sammy, Michael gives a bizarre story where he claims that Orena tried to move into the gas scheme as early as 1982 with the the backing of John Gotti. Don't think that really lines up with the the actual timeline, Gotti's conversation with Galizia, etc.

Interesting, never knew you were behind that Mafia Book Reviews website either, it's great stuff Nizar.

Appreciate it