Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

[B.]

In the last 14 years:

- Gambino member Nick Stefanelli met with the acting boss of the New England Family.
- Stefanelli arranged a meet-and-greet between the Philly and Gambino leadership. The tapes showed there had already been extensive networking between Philly and NYC, including a close relationship between Philly and the Corozzo faction and acting underboss Massimino partnering with Genovese members in North Jersey.
- Joey Merlino was welcomed at a Genovese captain's restaurant and met a bunch of members, including the leader of the Family's Connecticut/MA operations. Merlino also partnered with them in a medical scam.
- Merlino attended meetings in Florida with Genovese, Bonanno, and DeCavalcante members, sometimes all together.
- Merlino has been photographed with members of the Lucchese Family even though the Lucchese admin refused to recognize him. They attended his birthday party. Pennisi hung out with him multiple times and they had dinner at a Lucchese captain's house.
- A young Lucchese/Gambino associate in NYC was recruited by Merlino, started accompanying him everywhere, and was photographed with other top Philly leaders.
- A seemingly "retired" Philly member in Boston has gone to Philadelphia to visit members in recent years.
- A member of the Lucchese NJ crew took Pennisi to a diner in Philly where they socialized with major members of the Philly Family.
- Todaro reached out to three NYC Families about promoting Violi to underboss. Violi subsequently met NYC members from multiple Families in FL and NYC.
- A Bonanno associate moved to Ontario and was made into the Bonannos while closely associating with local Buffalo members. A group of Bonanno members traveled to Ontario and it was evident other contact had been made between the Bonanno and Buffalo Families that led to this arrangement.
- The Gambino-connected Los Angeles Family reportedly inducted members in Ontario and Todaro was upset at the protocol violation; one of them was later murdered.
- When Todaro visited Las Vegas for a food convention, he took a photo with a Chicago Family associate in front of a display for a business owned by another Chicago-affiliated figure.
- Numerous investigations have shown strong ties between the Gambino leadership and multiple Sicilian mafia Families. The Gambinos even sent an American-born emissary to help mediate a local dispute in Sicily.
- Bonanno members visiting Sicily had direct access to the boss of Castellammare del Golfo and indicated an NYC Bonanno leader helped arrange it.
- The boss of Sciacca maintained contact with the Gambino and Bonanno Families and one of his main associates/members was living in NYC where he ran gambling machines and was surveilled with the Bonanno leadership at a social club in 2013. They were also actively seeking to establish gambling machine operations in different parts of the US and Canada.
- The Ribera Family was in an international gambling partnership with the Cattolicensi (Bonanno?) in Montreal.
- Giovanni Rocco said there were still "zips" around the DeCavalcantes hanging out at Sacco's meat market.
- Rocco also said that when DeCavalcante captain was living in Las Vegas he was visited by a large group of NYC members.

This is just what we know and I'm probably forgetting a few examples. The Sicilian connections could also be elaborated on in much greater detail. No, the San Francisco Family isn't in the mix. No, there is no evidence Detroit is rebuilding their empire. But there is plenty of evidence from 2010 to present that the mafia continues to network in different parts of the US, in Canada, and even in Sicily.

This isn't a bunch of guys hiding from each other and they don't seem terribly paranoid about surveillance or rats even though both of those things are why we know this is happening.

These relationships have diminished but they aren't gone. To believe otherwise just demonstrates that someone bought too hard into 1980s-2000s media narratives about the mafia severing relationships and withering away in isolation.

[Newyorkempire]

In the last 14 years:

- Gambino member Nick Stefanelli met with the acting boss of the New England Family.
- Stefanelli arranged a meet-and-greet between the Philly and Gambino leadership. The tapes showed there had already been extensive networking between Philly and NYC, including a close relationship between Philly and the Corozzo faction and acting underboss Massimino partnering with Genovese members in North Jersey.
- Joey Merlino was welcomed at a Genovese captain's restaurant and met a bunch of members, including the leader of the Family's Connecticut/MA operations. Merlino also partnered with them in a medical scam.
- Merlino attended meetings in Florida with Genovese, Bonanno, and DeCavalcante members, sometimes all together.
- Merlino has been photographed with members of the Lucchese Family even though the Lucchese admin refused to recognize him. They attended his birthday party. Pennisi hung out with him multiple times and they had dinner at a Lucchese captain's house.
- A young Lucchese/Gambino associate in NYC was recruited by Merlino, started accompanying him everywhere, and was photographed with other top Philly leaders.
- A seemingly "retired" Philly member in Boston has gone to Philadelphia to visit members in recent years.
- A member of the Lucchese NJ crew took Pennisi to a diner in Philly where they socialized with major members of the Philly Family.
- Todaro reached out to three NYC Families about promoting Violi to underboss. Violi subsequently met NYC members from multiple Families in FL and NYC.
- A Bonanno associate moved to Ontario and was made into the Bonannos while closely associating with local Buffalo members. A group of Bonanno members traveled to Ontario and it was evident other contact had been made between the Bonanno and Buffalo Families that led to this arrangement.
- The Gambino-connected Los Angeles Family reportedly inducted members in Ontario and Todaro was upset at the protocol violation; one of them was later murdered.
- When Todaro visited Las Vegas for a food convention, he took a photo with a Chicago Family associate in front of a display for a business owned by another Chicago-affiliated figure.
- Numerous investigations have shown strong ties between the Gambino leadership and multiple Sicilian mafia Families. The Gambinos even sent an American-born emissary to help mediate a local dispute in Sicily.
- Bonanno members visiting Sicily had direct access to the boss of Castellammare del Golfo.
- The boss of Sciacca maintained contact with the Gambino and Bonanno Families and one of his main associates/members was living in NYC where he ran gambling machines and was surveilled with the Bonanno leadership at a social club in 2013. They were also actively seeking to establish gambling machine operations in different parts of the US and Canada.
- The Ribera Family was in an international gambling partnership with the Cattolicensi (Bonanno?) in Montreal.

This is just what we know and I'm probably forgetting a few examples. The Sicilian connections could also be elaborated on in much greater detail. No, the San Francisco Family isn't in the mix. No, there is no evidence Detroit is rebuilding their empire. But there is plenty of evidence from 2010 to present that the mafia continues to network in different parts of the US, in Canada, and even in Sicily.

This isn't a bunch of guys hiding from each other and they don't seem terribly paranoid about surveillance or rats even though both of those things are why we know this is happening.

These relationships have diminished but they aren't gone. To believe otherwise just demonstrates that someone bought too hard into 1980s-2000s media narratives about the mafia severing relationships and withering away in isolation.

This is just documented meetings. 10x more going on like this that will never come to light.

[B.]

Yep, it is just what we know. There is no way to quantify unknown unknowns but each of these connections indicates there is more not only to these specific examples but that there are also other examples we're unaware of. That isn't fan fiction, it's an obvious logical conclusion.

[SonnyBlackstein]

Yep, it is just what we know. There is no way to quantify unknown unknowns but each of these connections indicates there is more not only to these specific examples but that there are also other examples we're unaware of. That isn't fan fiction, it's an obvious logical conclusion.

"When Todaro visited Las Vegas for a food convention, he took a photo with a Chicago Family associate in front of a display for a business owned by another Chicago-affiliated figure"

Dude, youre absolutely reaching.

"A member of the Lucchese NJ crew took Pennisi to a diner in Philly where they socialized with major members of the Philly Family."
What has this got to do with absolutely anything?

A member of a family meeting/socializing with a member of another family happens = Colombo family has a liaison to Buffalo.
That your argument?

[Newyorkempire]

LMAO

[B.]

You've spent many years on here, you absorb nothing, and every once in a while you choose something small, obnoxious, and random to argue about while remaining completely out of your depth. I actually like you as a guy despite that, Sonny, but I don't understand what your interest in this stuff is. A habit?

A member of a family meeting/socializing with a member of another family happens = Colombo family has a liaison to Buffalo.
That your argument?

That actually is pretty close to my argument. These guys maintain social connections and the social connections inform formal relationships. Maybe your idea of a liaison is something out of a movie but the reality is very social. You see it on virtually all wiretaps where these guys shoot the shit, briefly talk about something formal, then continue on with general conversation about other subjects and life in general.

It's already been outlined that there is a long history of interaction specifically between the Colombos and Buffalo. You dismissed all of that as "1920" but it was pointed out that the current boss of Buffalo had a particularly close relationship to a well-connected Colombo member who died in 2010 and was active up until his death, that the Persico regime who is still in charge also had a relationship to the Todaros and other Buffalo members, and that RCMP intel from a member source confirmed Todaro has had contact with the Colombos in the last decade with regard to formal matters. This was done through a liaison because that's how it works. We don't know who that liaison is, I don't know if it's the name Scott mentioned, but again that is how it is done.

On a general note, liaisons can also be someone totally unexpected. Pete Lovaglio never would have been suspected but it turned out he was the Bonanno Family's liaison to the DeCavalcantes, Philadelphia, and Genovese Families and he met with members of those Families sometimes all at the same time. So in addition to there being guys we can single out for their connections to other Families, there are also guys who are simply chosen seemingly at random to carry on these relationships.

I reply not because I have any hope of having a real discussion with you but because there might be someone with genuine questions about this stuff who gets something out of it.

[Newyorkempire]

Posters on here with half a brain cell understand this easily. All well stated and documented and cross referenced and in depth. This isnt rocket science as much as some try to make it out to be.

Now hes getting mad and posting about Buffalo on the Colorado thread. Guy is really sick.

[antimafia]

Peter Edwards and Antonio Nicaso indicated in their 2015 book, Business or Blood, that two years earlier (i.e., 2013), the NYC Families with the most influence in Ontario "were the Luccheses and Gambinos, and to a lesser extent the Genoveses." (p. 223)

I haven't asked the authors for the source, but we can easily guess it: law enforcement.

I personally don't have any doubt that all the five NYC Families are involved in illicit activity in Ontario. YMMV.

[B.]

Peter Edwards and Antonio Nicaso indicated in their 2015 book, Business or Blood, that two years earlier (i.e., 2013), the NYC Families with the most influence in Ontario "were the Luccheses and Gambinos, and to a lesser extent the Genoveses." (p. 223)

I haven't asked the authors for the source, but we can easily guess it: law enforcement.

I personally don't have any doubt that all the five NYC Families are involved in illicit activity in Ontario. YMMV.

Very interesting.

I wonder what the basis is for specifying the Luccheses. We already have reason to suspect the Gambinos and the Genovese of course are capable of anything. I'd be surprised if the Colombos had much actual involvement in Ontario but they are all part of the same network and their ties to the Buffalo-Ontario Family make it possible they also have contacts in Canada though I'm reluctant to assume much.

Something to remember too is even if you lowball the Colombo membership today, that is still a huge Family in mafia terms and each member represents a range of association outside of that. The Colombos are thought of as miniscule because they may not have the ~150 members they once had and they pale in comparison to the Genovese/Gambinos, but even if they have 70 members that is a massive node (or conglomeration of nodes, more accurately) in the network. EDIT: For comparison, in 1993 Italian LE said Siculiana had 13 members and we know how extensive their connections were although you can't directly compare them given the Siculiana Family was much more international in nature.

[SonnyBlackstein]

You've spent many years on here, you absorb nothing, and every once in a while you choose something small, obnoxious, and random to argue about while remaining completely out of your depth. I actually like you as a guy despite that, Sonny, but I don't understand what your interest in this stuff is. A habit?

Jeezus Dude, want to limit the personal attacks? I love you B, I pride self on always arguing the point, not the person. Ive pissed you off, clearly. Was NOT intent, as to prove a point, simply, I find it hard to believe the Bo's have a Buffalo 'point-man' (or vice-versa). Youre a good guy, Sonny is sad youre angry at him. Sonny loves the B.

[SonnyBlackstein]

PS the Colorado Columbo joke (which the mods have deleted, weak) was funny as f.

[gohnjotti]

You've spent many years on here, you absorb nothing, and every once in a while you choose something small, obnoxious, and random to argue about while remaining completely out of your depth. I actually like you as a guy despite that, Sonny, but I don't understand what your interest in this stuff is. A habit?

A member of a family meeting/socializing with a member of another family happens = Colombo family has a liaison to Buffalo.
That your argument?

That actually is pretty close to my argument. These guys maintain social connections and the social connections inform formal relationships. Maybe your idea of a liaison is something out of a movie but the reality is very social. You see it on virtually all wiretaps where these guys shoot the shit, briefly talk about something formal, then continue on with general conversation about other subjects and life in general.

Sonny, this should be your biggest takeaway from this. I fully see your point about all these connections being a bit of a reach. These same mobsters would probably call it reaching too, because they may not even view themselves as 'liaisons'. It's a formal term to describe informal social connections. But the moment they "liaise", they become liaisons, both in the eyes of the FBI and the media who later report it.

A similar example might be when you consider certain mob associates who might've never thought of themselves as "on-record" with anybody, or even understood the term. Instead, it might just be a mutual understanding that "if I get in trouble with anyone from 'that life,' I know to talk to my friend Joe Blow who will iron things out for me."

[Ivan]

mommy, daddy, please don't fight

[johnny_scootch]

Connections are sources of pride for mafiosi they’re badges of honor, cultivated and even passed down through generations in some cases. In modern times now that these guys are far removed from the Sicilian towns their fathers and grandfathers came from many of these cross family relationships are formed in prison. It’s not a stretch at all to think a member or a trusted associate of the Colombo family has a connection/the ability to reach out to a member or associate of the Todaro family to pass messages or set up meetings.

[Newyorkempire]

Connections are sources of pride for mafiosi they’re badges of honor, cultivated and even passed down through generations in some cases. In modern times now that these guys are far removed from the Sicilian towns their fathers and grandfathers came from many of these cross family relationships are formed in prison. It’s not a stretch at all to think a member or a trusted associate of the Colombo family has a connection/the ability to reach out to a member or associate of the Todaro family to pass messages or set up meetings.

Pretty sure Bifulco was locked up with Anthony Donato