Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

[SonnyBlackstein]

Didn't say anything about 1920 B.

Good. You shouldn't.

You brought up Colombos 1920 liason to Buffalo. And you're pissy because I'm calling into question 2024 'relations'?

Ok bud. Appreciate the history lesson.

[Newyorkempire]

Roasted as usual

[gohnjotti]

Didn't say anything about 1920 B.

Good. You shouldn't.

You brought up Colombos 1920 liason to Buffalo. And you're pissy because I'm calling into question 2024 'relations'?

Ok bud. Appreciate the history lesson.

I remember a National Post article referring to the fact that the Bonannos, Colombo and... I wanna say Gambinos(?) were contacted regarding Violi's upcoming induction, or something along those lines. That information, as far as I know, was based on RCMP and court documents. I'm willing to take that at face value and assume there is at least one liaison between the Colombos and Buffalo. We can't forget; the Colombos allegedly had contact with L.A. captain Jimmy Caci in the early 2000s, if I'm remembering Kenji's book correctly. In the mid-1990s, high-ranking Philly members met with Colombo heads on President Street.

We can't overlook the social connections that overlap with "organized crime" connections. The Buffalo family and Colombo family may not have had any real "business" together for decades, but older members who did have those connections may have continued those and helped forge new friendships/relationships. Not to mention shared prison sentences.

[Angelo Santino]

Didn't say anything about 1920 B.

Good. You shouldn't.

You brought up Colombos 1920 liason to Buffalo. And you're pissy because I'm calling into question 2024 'relations'?

Ok bud. Appreciate the history lesson.

I remember a National Post article referring to the fact that the Bonannos, Colombo and... I wanna say Gambinos(?) were contacted regarding Violi's upcoming induction, or something along those lines. That information, as far as I know, was based on RCMP and court documents. I'm willing to take that at face value and assume there is at least one liaison between the Colombos and Buffalo. We can't forget; the Colombos allegedly had contact with L.A. captain Jimmy Caci in the early 2000s, if I'm remembering Kenji's book correctly. In the mid-1990s, high-ranking Philly members met with Colombo heads on President Street.

We can't overlook the social connections that overlap with "organized crime" connections. The Buffalo family and Colombo family may not have had any real "business" together for decades, but older members who did have those connections may have continued those and helped forge new friendships/relationships. Not to mention shared prison sentences.

Good point and yeah, I recall what you're saying.

If these two groups have any connections whatsoever (even down to a Colombo using a laundrymat that Buffalo owns), there would be formal introductions made, that's the mafia at play as a network. It's not exciting or sexy. It's as simple and easy as a Buffalo member attending a Gambino party and encountering one of the few remaining New Orleans' members (or a Chicago member or a Philly member, take your pick). They'll be formally introduced as brothers and what, if anything, they decide to do is their own business. It can but doesn't have to involve criminality. When DiLeonardo traveled to LA to meet with Pete Milano on Gambino business he was introduced to Frank Valenti in Arizona, former boss of Rochester. They were introduced for no reason other than that MD's family was from Bisacquino and FV's from Grotte, the towns aren't too far apart. Outsiders hear that and feel let down at how boring it is, these men are talking family (lower case f) history and not planning on taking over the Arizona rackets (I hate that word). But that's what alot of LCN is. And we're not trained to focus or understand that because law enforcement investigates crimes and not the mafia as an org or social phenomenon specifically. We can't ignore the crime but we can't ignore the fraternity aspect that these men share because that's the glue that keeps mafia going in this country since the 1850s and just because its not surface level with what we see in trials and wiretaps doesn't mean its any less of a factor.

[Ivan]

If these two groups have any connections whatsoever (even down to a Colombo using a laundrymat that Buffalo owns), there would be formal introductions made, that's the mafia at play as a network. It's not exciting or sexy. It's as simple and easy as a Buffalo member attending a Gambino party and encountering one of the few remaining New Orleans' members (or a Chicago member or a Philly member, take your pick). They'll be formally introduced as brothers and what, if anything, they decide to do is their own business.

A very knowledgeable and reliable source has told me that Russell Papalardo in Cleveland still enjoys this sort of treatment as a "brother" in this way by other mafia figures and Cleveland is still regarded as "represented" amid mafia matters by him even though the family is defunct and he's the only made guy still living.

[Angelo Santino]

If these two groups have any connections whatsoever (even down to a Colombo using a laundrymat that Buffalo owns), there would be formal introductions made, that's the mafia at play as a network. It's not exciting or sexy. It's as simple and easy as a Buffalo member attending a Gambino party and encountering one of the few remaining New Orleans' members (or a Chicago member or a Philly member, take your pick). They'll be formally introduced as brothers and what, if anything, they decide to do is their own business.

A very knowledgeable and reliable source has told me that Russell Papalardo in Cleveland still enjoys this sort of treatment as a "brother" in this way by other mafia figures and Cleveland is still regarded as "represented" amid mafia matters by him even though the family is defunct and he's the only made guy still living.

It's truly the essence of what makes the mafia the mafia. If criminality were the sole factor "the Italians" would have died out long ago.

I had someone, maybe Scott Burnstein, tell me that Papalardo has "an administration." I have no opinion. Would I believe Cleveland has more than one member, yeah, would I believe it if it was only him, yeah. As an outsider, it's really difficult to tell and I'm indifferent.

But when you think of it as a network, what incentive is there to let it die? That could equate to keeping communication with Chicago, Detroit, Buffalo, Pittsburgh (if there is anything left) and New York. It doesn't have to be Papalardo plotting to "rebuild" (ie a Family structure complete with captains with Moltistanti-style grunt 'made men') which is what most outsiders would expect and in fact, would argue he's nonviable if he doesn't.

[NickleCity]

Bobby Kaiser, another witness in the ongoing Bongiovanni case has died before he could testify in the retrial. See: https://buffalonews.com/news/local/crim ... 765c9.html

But after Militello’s prosecution, Kaiser was no longer comfortable being a confidential source for the DEA, because he said Bongiovanni blew his cover.

“By him telling Mr. Militello that I wore a wire, it got to the neighborhood that I wore a wire,” Kaiser testified. “So everywhere I went – drug court, streets – I’m fighting for my life. People trying to stab me, everything. Because he told them I wore a wire.”

“So, safe to say at that point in time then you were burned as a confidential informant?” Singer asked, giving jurors an alternative explanation for why Bongiovanni did not ask Kaiser to try to get evidence against Serio.

“Yeah, because I thought the C (in confidential informant) meant confidential – not we tell everything and we just put the person on the street to die. But you see I’m still here, I’m still walking the streets.”

And on a slightly different note, at Bongiovanni's detention hearing about his ankle bracelet the government indicates that Bongi was involved in Witness Intimidation referring to his interaction with another DEA Agent Anthony Casullo.



Additionally, the government alleges they are investigation Bongiovanni for possible witness retaliation.

[Newyorkempire]

Bobby Kaiser, another witness in the ongoing Bongiovanni case has died before he could testify in the retrial. See: https://buffalonews.com/news/local/crim ... 765c9.html

But after Militello’s prosecution, Kaiser was no longer comfortable being a confidential source for the DEA, because he said Bongiovanni blew his cover.

“By him telling Mr. Militello that I wore a wire, it got to the neighborhood that I wore a wire,” Kaiser testified. “So everywhere I went – drug court, streets – I’m fighting for my life. People trying to stab me, everything. Because he told them I wore a wire.”

“So, safe to say at that point in time then you were burned as a confidential informant?” Singer asked, giving jurors an alternative explanation for why Bongiovanni did not ask Kaiser to try to get evidence against Serio.

“Yeah, because I thought the C (in confidential informant) meant confidential – not we tell everything and we just put the person on the street to die. But you see I’m still here, I’m still walking the streets.”

And on a slightly different note, at Bongiovanni's detention hearing about his ankle bracelet the government indicates that Bongi was involved in Witness Intimidation referring to his interaction with another DEA Agent Anthony Casullo.



Additionally, the government alleges they are investigation Bongiovanni for possible witness retaliation.

Thinking Militello must be cooperating now? Not in BOP custody. Unless it wasnt updated after he was subpoenaed?
Got slammed with a huge sentence.

[NickleCity]

Thinking Militello must be cooperating now? Not in BOP custody. Unless it wasnt updated after he was subpoenaed?
Got slammed with a huge sentence.

Interesting... he was sentenced to prison till 2039.

[Newyorkempire]

Thinking Militello must be cooperating now? Not in BOP custody. Unless it wasnt updated after he was subpoenaed?
Got slammed with a huge sentence.

Interesting... he was sentenced to prison till 2039.

He was all about Omerta a few months ago. His dad was Mike i believe

[B.]

Didn't say anything about 1920 B.

Good. You shouldn't.

You brought up Colombos 1920 liason to Buffalo. And you're pissy because I'm calling into question 2024 'relations'?

Ok bud. Appreciate the history lesson.

I remember a National Post article referring to the fact that the Bonannos, Colombo and... I wanna say Gambinos(?) were contacted regarding Violi's upcoming induction, or something along those lines. That information, as far as I know, was based on RCMP and court documents. I'm willing to take that at face value and assume there is at least one liaison between the Colombos and Buffalo. We can't forget; the Colombos allegedly had contact with L.A. captain Jimmy Caci in the early 2000s, if I'm remembering Kenji's book correctly. In the mid-1990s, high-ranking Philly members met with Colombo heads on President Street.

We can't overlook the social connections that overlap with "organized crime" connections. The Buffalo family and Colombo family may not have had any real "business" together for decades, but older members who did have those connections may have continued those and helped forge new friendships/relationships. Not to mention shared prison sentences.

Joe Gorgone was extremely close to both Todaro Sr. and Jr. and he just died in 2010. I don't know that they were hanging out as much as they did in the 1980s but these guys never stopped going to Florida and people greatly underestimate how many guys from the remaining Families socialize there. Lovaglio of the Bonannos said he was meeting up with Merlino, DeCavalcante, and Genovese members all at the same time in FL. The Todaros made tons of friends from around the country in FL and Todaro Jr. has continued to spend a ton of time there. When he made and promoted Violi, it doesn't sound like he had to jump through hoops to contact NYC, he just had the ability to reach them.

I mentioned the Persicos' ongoing ties to Buffalo and Utica (and specifically the Todaros) because they're still running the Family. Carmine is dead but these relationships aren't just boss-to-boss, they bring their aides and friends and it's a fact that the Persicos used to bring their crew upstate and occasionally meet up with Buffalo members. The RCMP info said there was still contact between Buffalo and the Colombos and this older info potentially provides a foundation for how that contact can be maintained. Gorgone was still kicking in the years immediately leading up to the RCMP info and the Persicos and Todaros are still in charge.

Part of the issue, like Angelo is getting at, is people have a misconception of what these relationships are like. A "liaison" is often someone friendly with another Family who has some organic relationship with them and can be a point of contact if needed, nothing grandiose. If they're all in Florida, that guy can make the introduction (Gorgone used to do this). If someone is starting a food business and wants to know about distribution in WNYS or Upstate, they can reach out to the Todaros for advice. It isn't someone carrying top secret plans or helping organize some massive criminal conspiracy. It's fairly mundane.

Sal Profaci was still a point of contact between the Colombos and Detroit for many years even afer these connections were less relevant. According to Scarpa, Donnie Shacks had Profaci make contact with Detroit and possibly other Families to keep those connections alive. I'm sure that relationship died with Profaci but it's an example of how it works and we have recent evidence there is still similar contact between Buffalo and the Colombo, plus the background to support it. I have no opinion on the specific guy Scott named and I'm critical of Scott's approach but the basic info isn't outlandish.

[Ivan]

If these two groups have any connections whatsoever (even down to a Colombo using a laundrymat that Buffalo owns), there would be formal introductions made, that's the mafia at play as a network. It's not exciting or sexy. It's as simple and easy as a Buffalo member attending a Gambino party and encountering one of the few remaining New Orleans' members (or a Chicago member or a Philly member, take your pick). They'll be formally introduced as brothers and what, if anything, they decide to do is their own business.

A very knowledgeable and reliable source has told me that Russell Papalardo in Cleveland still enjoys this sort of treatment as a "brother" in this way by other mafia figures and Cleveland is still regarded as "represented" amid mafia matters by him even though the family is defunct and he's the only made guy still living.

It's truly the essence of what makes the mafia the mafia. If criminality were the sole factor "the Italians" would have died out long ago.

One of the more mind-blowing epiphanies I've had about the mafia is that the reflexive and cynical they're-just-after-money take on the mafia, while having a grain of truth to it, is for the most part pseudo-sophisticated bullshit, while the corny Joe Bonanno thing about it being an old tradition of brotherhood/honor/respect is more or less true.

But when you think of it as a network, what incentive is there to let it die? That could equate to keeping communication with Chicago, Detroit, Buffalo, Pittsburgh (if there is anything left) and New York. It doesn't have to be Papalardo plotting to "rebuild" (ie a Family structure complete with captains with Moltistanti-style grunt 'made men') which is what most outsiders would expect and in fact, would argue he's nonviable if he doesn't.

Cleveland is a really fascinating example of the network that encompasses associates, legit businessmen, labor, unmade criminals etc. surviving the family's "death." What was once a "structured crime family" has evolved into a network of shady but mostly legit guys centered on a certain staffing agency, with a lot of familiar surnames popping up if you examine who's a part of that network.

Anyway, I would be shocked if Papalardo and Todaro were not personally acquainted, given the above factors and the fact that their cities are "right down the road" from one another.

[B.]

Also, before anyone says "Gorgone was 85 when he died, he couldn't have been doing anything." Gorgone was still confirmed to be active in Colombo affairs when he was 80 and working with the Gambino Family in gambling, having been close to the Gottis and Corozzos at one point. Gorgone Jr. surfaced in recent years as a Genovese associate (Gorgone Sr. had been personally close to Vincent Gigante) and Gorgone Jr. knows the Todaros and tons of Philly guys. Gorgone Jr. is the guy who was misidentified for years as Tory Scafidi in a bunch of 1980s Scarfo photos from FL and Atlantic City, Gorgone Jr. being part of Scarfo's inner circle and being with him on a regular basis.

Gorgone Jr. isn't made that we know of but he alone had relationships to multiple Families and his father was still in the mix until 2010. Why would Gorgone Sr. suddenly stop being a personal friend of the Todaros? The "heat"? The same heat that led the Lucchese admin to take photos with each other at a Family party in the 2010s? The same heat that stops Merlino from hanging out with Genovese, Lucchese, Bonanno and DeCavalcante members? The same heat that stopped Todaro Jr. from contacting three of the NYC Families about his new Canadian underboss? Yes, they all quit being friends and in South Florida they hide in their own little corners and refuse to network.

Yes, these relationships have diminished. But to outright dismiss them shows a poor and under-developed interest in this subject or an inability to think beyond black-and-white.

[gohnjotti]

Great explanation, B.

[Newyorkempire]

If these two groups have any connections whatsoever (even down to a Colombo using a laundrymat that Buffalo owns), there would be formal introductions made, that's the mafia at play as a network. It's not exciting or sexy. It's as simple and easy as a Buffalo member attending a Gambino party and encountering one of the few remaining New Orleans' members (or a Chicago member or a Philly member, take your pick). They'll be formally introduced as brothers and what, if anything, they decide to do is their own business.

A very knowledgeable and reliable source has told me that Russell Papalardo in Cleveland still enjoys this sort of treatment as a "brother" in this way by other mafia figures and Cleveland is still regarded as "represented" amid mafia matters by him even though the family is defunct and he's the only made guy still living.

It's truly the essence of what makes the mafia the mafia. If criminality were the sole factor "the Italians" would have died out long ago.

One of the more mind-blowing epiphanies I've had about the mafia is that the reflexive and cynical they're-just-after-money take on the mafia, while having a grain of truth to it, is for the most part pseudo-sophisticated bullshit, while the corny Joe Bonanno thing about it being an old tradition of brotherhood/honor/respect is more or less true.

But when you think of it as a network, what incentive is there to let it die? That could equate to keeping communication with Chicago, Detroit, Buffalo, Pittsburgh (if there is anything left) and New York. It doesn't have to be Papalardo plotting to "rebuild" (ie a Family structure complete with captains with Moltistanti-style grunt 'made men') which is what most outsiders would expect and in fact, would argue he's nonviable if he doesn't.

Cleveland is a really fascinating example of the network that encompasses associates, legit businessmen, labor, unmade criminals etc. surviving the family's "death." What was once a "structured crime family" has evolved into a network of shady but mostly legit guys centered on a certain staffing agency, with a lot of familiar surnames popping up if you examine who's a part of that network.

Anyway, I would be shocked if Papalardo and Todaro were not personally acquainted, given the above factors and the fact that their cities are "right down the road" from one another.

Sidari from Cleveland knows Todaro well due to both being in the food wholesale business and I believe Ciangalinis/Martaranos from Philly for whatever reason