Joseph Campanella testimony notes - November 15th, 2004

[Little_Al1991]

NOTICE OF FILING OF OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT of Proceedings as to Alphonse T Persico, John J. DeRoss, Michael Spataro, Carmine DeRoss, III held on November 15, 2007, before Judge Joanna Seybert.

The following will include the aforementioned transcript

I would also like to include some testimony notes from investigator John Carillo as he had some interesting testimony that I believe is worth reading

This won’t be as well structured as other posts on this forum but I hope you all enjoy it
COSA NOSTRA

Carillo is asked if commission meetings took place between the five families after the commission case and he answered yes

When asked about the total number of members and associates he said. Approximately 800 members and approximately several thousand associates

You put legal and illegal businesses on record to your capo

Punishment in that life - It could go from being killed, being shelved, being disciplined, having things taken away from you -- you know, certain activities

A member must ask his capo for permission to clip someone, the capo then must go to the admin

Carillo claims it began with mass immigration in the late 1800s and early 1900s from Italy, particularly Sicily.Groups of Mafioso came

Those who settled in NYC and other areas brought the customs of the Mafia to the US

In Sicily, they have clans that are sometimes blood relatives or close associates. Each clan runs a town and controls organized crime and some politics there.

In New York, organized crime was based on neighborhoods. Particular neighborhoods had people involved who controlled the organized crime activities.

However, there was always one boss who ran everything in the New York area. Carillo claims it was first Joe Masseria

In a modern crime family, the boss has absolute power within their own family. They set policies and punish members as they see fit.

Any member can serve on a ruling panel

Associates can be “around/with” with a member or a captains crew

In relation to who can be made “At one time it was 100 percent on your mother and father's side. Over the years it changed back and forth to only on your father's side. And just recently it has been changed back again to 100 percent of Italian descent.”

Rules for carrying out a boss's order to kill can vary. It depends on the family

A beef is when a dispute arises between Cosa Nostra members or associates that are on record with them.

Every year, Cosa Nostra can replace members who pass away. Each family has a certain number of people allowed.

If three people die in a year, you can replace them and add two more from previous years.

When someone becomes the acting underboss, the message is usually sent through a messenger of their choice to the admin of another family

When bosses or acting bosses from different families meet, someone from the administration usually makes the introduction.

It should be the consigliere or an experienced member known to both families.

BACKGROUND

Joe was born in Brooklyn, grew up in Bensonhurst and attended New Utrecht High school and graduated the 12th grade.

His closest friends growing up were “Robert Donofrio. Carl Russo. Frankie Grecco. Chuckie. Maybe about ten, 15 guys.”

Later, he learned Rob was in the Colombo Family

Joe would sell marijuana and rob cars as a teenager.

He was arrested for assault in 1976 but the case was dismissed

While growing up, he saw Cutolo,DeRoss and Donofrio who he believed were apart of the life

Joe is asked on the stand if the life seemed glamorous to him as a teenager and he said yes and then said “Well, actually it was just a lifestyle. Having money. Nice cars. Clothes. Power.”

When asked if it was glamorous for him he said “No”

He became an associate in approximately 1979, at the age of 18 or 19, when he was “just graduating”

He became involved with the life while growing up because of Donofrio on 11th Avenue

Donofrio introduced him to Cutolo in approximately 1979 and the relationship developed because of Donofrio

There was a club that they would hang out in which was on 11th avenue and64th street where they were getting to know wild bill

Joe considered himself an associate to cutolo after knowing him for “maybe a year”.

When he first met Bill, bill was an associate.

It took 9 years for Campanella to become an inducted member


MADE MAN

Cutolo sponsored him in 1989 and told him the ceremony would happen in a week or 2.

He told him that Joe would have to commit his life to the family.

2 weeks later, he was in a car with “Bob and Bill” they were on their way to the ceremony in Long Island

Attendees of the ceremony were “Vic Orena. Joe Scopo. Wild Bill. Patty Amato. And I believe, if I remember correctly, it was Vic Orena Jr and John Orena.”

Cutolo and Orena spoke

When asked about the Saint burning, he said “It just represents that if you turn government witness, that's what should happen to you, you will burn in hell.”

Joe was told that “It was that the boss is the only one who can call you besides your captain. And the boss runs the family.”

You can’t put your hands on another member or kill them, only a boss can give the okay for murder

RACKETS

In approximately 1981/82, Joe was involved in loansharking with cutolo

A point is one dollar on every hundred dollars you loan out, interest.

Joe paid cutolo 2 points on a hundred.

Joe charged his customers 5 points.

There were times when he would best customers who didn’t pay back on time

He would collect for bill, “Joe-Joe Russo, Vinny Hoak, myself, Vinnie Vassaro, Robert Donofrio. And maybe one or two other guys.”

Joe and others in the crew would lend money to customers who wanted to borrow money.

Joe would find customers for lending money in the neighborhood.

Regular people who knew Joe as a shylock would come to borrow money.

they knew he was a Shylock based of on word of mouth in the neighborhood.

Joe doesn't remember the exact number, but he may have loaned money to around 100 people.

The interest rate for the loans was 5 percent.

an example Joe gave was that he would lend smaller amounts, like $1,000, and the borrowers would pay $50 a week in interest.

- Joe confirms that if someone borrowed $100,000, they would pay $5,000 a week.
- However, it never came down to that
- Billy Cutolo operated at a different level and did loan people that sort of money
- Joe was involved in running Billy's shylocking operation and collected money for him.
- Joe is aware of the large sums of money Billy loaned out, but he doesn't know where Billy got the money from.
- Joe was friends with bill for 20 years before he passed away

- Joseph's associates were supposed to bring him extortion money.
- The money came from medical businesses involved in medical fraud, mainly owned and operated by Russians.
- Joseph would receive $250 per place for providing protection in this medical fraud scheme.
- He got involved in this business through two Russians who introduced him to their Russian friends that opened up medical places
- He was collecting money through Shylocking and other games, such as car services and massage parlors.
- The amount of money he collected varied, ranging from $2500 to $3500 per week, sometimes even reaching $5000.
- All the money he received was in cash, and he acknowledges that it was illegal and didn’t pay tax on it 
He didn't give any of the money to Billy Cutolo but told him he was making money, bill told him to proceed with it 

Besides from loansharking he also was involved in Conspiracy to murder. Extortion. Gambling. Medical fraud. Counterfeiting tokens.
Joe used prepaid phones to talk about crime and pay phones, he also had a beeper which was used for people who wanted to contact him

Campanella had two families

One with his wife and another with his girlfriend who he had one child with




COLOMBO FAMILY WAR

Carillo states that he believes it began in 1990 and ended at some point in 93

Campanella says the war was ongoing in approximately 1991 and 1992

Bill told joe that Orena was almost killed because “Vic wouldn't step down and Allie Boy was coming home from prison.”

Joe’s responbility during the war was to be Cutolo’s bodyguard.

He also identified “Michael Spataro. Vincent DeMartino. My brother, Frank. Joe Gas. Frankie Notch. Joe-Joe Russo. Maybe about another four or five other guys. Black Dom.” As Cutolo’s other bodyguards

Joe claims 12 people died during the war

Cutolo told Joe to murder Greg Scarpa Sr (soldier) right after the attempt on Orena.

Those involved in the plot were “There was myself. There was Vince DeMartino. Mike Spataro. Frankie Notch. Gabe Scianna.” He mentioned Joe tolino but said he’s unsure of his last name
They waited for Scarpa to leave his house while they were in a stolen van but as Frankie got out, his gun went of and Scarpa sped away

The same hit team tried to kill 2 or 3 others who were in Greg’s crew


- I was just following orders from Bill Cutolo.
- I didn't ask him where the order came from.
- There was no debt forgiven in exchange for chasing down Greg Scarpa's guys.
- In the murder conspiracy involving Greg Scarpa, there were six of us involved which were Campanella , Vincent DeMartino, Michael Spataro, Gabe Scianna, Frankie Notch, and Joe Tolino.
- Plans were made to rob a van, park it near Greg's house, and shoot him. Move the van and escape in another car
- Crash cars were prepared in case of law enforcement presence.
- All of us involved in the conspiracy were armed with guns.

Campanella detailed one “It was Ralph Apache's daughter's basement house. And we were waiting for him to come down the block, Joey's gun, Joey Tolino's gun, started to go off in the basement by accident, so we just canceled it”

There were three conspiracy to murders that Campanella was involved in during the war

- One of the persons involved was Larry Sessa, but I'm not 100% sure if he was in the car when we went to Ralph Apache's daughter's house that we’re driving down the street

- They had information that some of Greg's guys would be driving down the block, and our plan was to shoot into their car.

- It wasn't a personal vendetta, but rather a directive that theywere following.

Ronald Calvo was almost murdered on 86th street and 21st Avenue in approximately 1991 while 15 guys were taking bill to get a haircut.

Joe fired shots at him but he lived.

Joe was with the 15 guys when this happened

In approximately 1992,1993, a ceasefire was called because “everybody was getting indicted” and some were killed

Orena faction was acting on a committee. Bill was part of it. This is even after the ceasefire.
After Cutolo was arrested, he chose Joe to run his crew

Joe visited bill and his brother in prison

When Bill was incarcerated, during that time, Joe was on the committee running the Orena faction.
- He was a soldier, and there were two factions at that time: the Orena faction and the Persico faction.
- When everyone was incarcerated, the Orena faction was left with three soldiers: Vinnie Aloi, Joe Waverly, and Campanella
- They were the ones on the committee, the three of us running the Orena faction.
After the war ended, it remained intact but It wasn't that long. When Bill came home, it was 13 month later, then everybody was broken down to soldiers.



AFTERMATH


Bill came home in approximately 1994 and he was knocked down to soldier,

Bill told Joe that it’s because of the disarray the family is in, that’s where we’re at now

Bill came home and we talked. Jack DeRoss asked if we wanted to reunite the family.

The message from Allie Boy given to DeRoss was that Allie would be our captain and that we would all want to be with him as our Captain

At the meeting in Staten Island, Jackie's associate, Sally Winot, brought them together.

Attendees were was Joe, Wild Bill, Allie Boy, Jackie, Joe Smash, and Richie Cap.

They discussed reuniting the family Allie Boy was our captain.


- Soldiers out in Long Island didn't want Billy Cutolo to join with Persico and DeRoss.
- They were known as the Long Island Guys.
- They didn't want to get back together with the Persico faction.
- They maintained they were on a different side.
- When you all decided to get together under Persico as your captain, there was no acting boss.
- There was only an official boss at that time.
- The first time I met Mr. Persico was when we were coming under him as our captain.
- During that time in '95 or so, '96, the administration positions were unclear due to the family being at war.
- There was an acting boss who later got incarcerated ( presumably Orena) so there was no one to fill that spot.
- Allie's father, Carmine, was the official boss at that time.
- When Allie became our captain, there was no announcement about the acting boss, underboss, or consigliere.
- Billy Cutolo eventually held the position of acting underboss.
- I don't know who the official underboss was during that time.
- "Acting" means that someone is representing the family in the absence of the official boss.
- Allie's father, Carmine, was the only official position at that time.
- When someone goes to jail, their position is typically filled, depending on the time frame and circumstances.
- The term "acting" means that someone is temporarily fulfilling the role of the official position.
- Allie was acting as a representative for his father, who was the official boss.
- At the time in '95 or '96 when we went under Allie as our captain, I didn't know who the consigliere was.
- Eventually, it was put together that Joe Waverly would become the consigliere when Allie became the acting boss.
- This happened around 1998, a few years after the war was over.
- During that time, two people in the administration positions were on the Orena side and one person was on the Persico side.

WILLIAM “WILD BILL” CUTOLO

Joe testified that after Bill became Acting Underboss, their relationship changed “It started to get distant. Bill got very, very busy with the family running around for the family. And Bill and I started getting distant”

Bill claimed Joe owed him 300k in relation to shylocking money and passed a message to Jackie that he would break Joe’s car windows

DeRoss told Joe about this and said Bill’s a little offended that you owe him money and have brought a Mercedes’ Benz

- Billy Cutolo was feared in the neighborhood (Brooklyn)
- He was strong and powerful in the neighbourhood 
- He took care of the spot on 11th Avenue. (As far as Organized Crime business)
- Everyone in the neighborhood knew 
Social club activity: Bocce Club on Wednesdays and Saturdays.
- Associates: Everybody in the club, around 15-20 guys.
- Some names: Black Dom, Joe-Joe Russo, Frankie Notch, Joe Gas, Downtown Ronnie, Billy Jr.
- Didn't remember most of them.
- Went on for years, until a little after Billy disappeared.
- Joe would see bill twice a week at the friendly bocce club, on Wednesday at 6 pm and would stay until 12 or 11:30 pm.
- Most of the guys in the crew would get together and eat on Wednesday.
- Bill would appear at 6 or 7pm and Joe would sit next to him
- Joe was with him every single day during the war
- Bill would get a haircut every Wednesday between 3 tp 6pm at Bruno’s on 86th street.
- Bill had interest in the embassy terrace which is a catering hall
- Cutolo worked at local 400
- Upon being inducted, Joe said he was put into Cutolo’s crew which included “It was myself. It was Joey Colombo. Joe Smash. Rob Donofrio. Joe Gas. And Joe Notch.”

Joe Amato told Bill, and Bill had to make Chickie understand that he couldn't talk like that -- speak like that to a captain in front of anybody.
- Chickie accused Joe of sleeping with his wife in '94 or '95, which Joe denied.
- Chickie was on parole around '96, and it's unclear if Jack DeRoss met with him.
- Joe never talked to Chickie about meeting with Jack DeRoss, and he didn't discuss it with Wild Bill.

- After Wild Bill disappeared, Colombo associates Johnny Brains and John The Barber were put with Chickie.
- There may have been another guy, but Joe can't remember his name at the moment.
- John The Barber was put with Chickie right after Wild Bill disappeared.

Joe considered himself an associate to cutolo after knowing him for “maybe a year”.
When he first met Bill, bill was an associate.
It took 9 years for Campanella to become an inducted member
- There was a time when there was some distance between Joe Campanella and Billy Cutolo.
- One of the reasons for the distance was Joe feeling slighted about being left out of the million of dollars Billy Cutolo was making in the stock fraud business with Dom Dionisio.
- Joe felt that Billy believed whatever was his, was his, and whatever was Joe's, was also Billy's.

- Joe Campanella didn't receive any money from the business with Black Dom.
- He felt entitled to something because of his relationship with Black Dom and Wild Bill.
- All of us in the crew stood together and went through the war.
- Joe felt that after the war, the crew was supposed to share everything, including the money being made.
- Joe expressed his feelings to Bill Cutolo, but Bill didn't say anything and claimed the money was not Joe's.
- Joe doesn't know how much money was made,
Joe owed Billy Cutolo $300,000 since around 1990 or 1991.
- He never repaid any of the borrowed money, and there was no interest accruing on it.
- The money Joe borrowed was considered shylocking money, which they would lend out at 5 percent interest.

- Joe assumes that Billy Cutolo may have gotten the money from the family, but he can't say for sure.
- The only businesses Joe knew about involving Billy were his work in Local 400, his partnership with his cousin Frankie, and his involvement with Andy's Collision and a hotel.
- Joe doesn't have information about the specifics of those businesses or Billy's personal interest in them.
- Joe thought the Embassy business was a business deal between Billy and someone named Vito, but he doesn't know the details or whether it was a family business.
If people didn’t pay bill back, Maybe Billy would hit them, punch him in his face

- Local 400 was indeed a union that Billy Cutolo worked at.
- Joe started going there around 1990 to 1991 during a time of dispute between the factions.
- Joe served as one of Billy's protectors/bodyguards during that time.
- Other individuals who served as Billy's protectors during that period included Vincent DeMartino, Mike Spataro, Joe's brother Frank, Frankie Notch, Black Dom, Joe-Joe Russo, and about ten guys in total.
- These same ten guys continued to be Billy's protectors throughout the dispute and war period.


- One of the rules in the Colombo family is not to hit another made member.
- Breaking this rule could result in death, depending on the circumstances.
- Joseph heard a story from when he was younger about two made members having a fist fight, but it was settled without any killings.
- In Joseph's 20 years with the Colombo family, there were no instances like that.
- Billy Cutolo allegedly had to hide out for a while because of a fight over his sister Geraldine with a Bonnano member 
- Joe recalls hearing about it, but doesn’t know all the details or how long it lasted.







THE DISAPPEARANCE OF WILD BILL CUTOLO

In approximately 94,95, Joe had an affair with a woman who’s father in law was Paul’s cousin, Paul Castellano

In 1999, a sit down ensued over it.Attendees were Joe, it was Jack DeRoss, it was Carmine Scianna (ph), Frank Torminia, Frank Castellano

Frank Castellano and Carmine Capamayo attended for the Gambino Family. Carmine is a Capo and Torminia is a soldier

Joe met DeRoss around the corner of Top Tomato, they had a little discussion about what they would say at the sit down.

As they were going through the meeting, Jackie asked him how would he feel about killing Cutolo

Jackie’s demeanour was serious but Joe put his head down and shook it because he was shocked that he would ask him something like that

Approximately 6 weeks after being asked if he wanted to kill Bill. Cutolo disappeared

He didn’t show up on Wednesday at the club, those who were present were “It was myself and it was Jack DeRoss, Bill, Jr., Joe Snitch, my brother, Del -- Dan -- so it was maybe about 15, 20 guys.”

Bill jr was very, very worried about his father

DeRoss told him to contact him

The next day at approximately 11 o o’clock, Joe went to the Cutolo house

Those who were present were “It was myself, it was Peggy Cutolo, Black Dom, Frank, my brother, Frank, and Bill, Jr” Peggy was upset and worried and nervous

Bill jr was very sad

Joe was sick and devastated.

Joe mourned Cutolo

JACKIE DEROSS ON CUTOLO’S DEATH

“And then I asked him what else is going on. Jackie just told me the situation with Wild Bill, that Bill had to go, he was getting too powerful. If, when Allie Boy went away on a gun charge, Bill would have took over the family. And he would have never gave the family back to Allie Boy. And that Bill had to go. He was too powerful.And Jackie was offended that Bill had too much going on. He was offended that Bill's girlfriend had a house bigger than his.”

When DeRoss said Wild Bill would take over the family, Joe understood it as Bill becoming the acting boss.

AFTERMATH OF CUTOLO’S DEATH

- After Wild Bill disappeared, Colombo associates Johnny Brains and John The Barber were put with Chickie.
- There may have been another guy, but Joe can't remember his name at the moment.
- John The Barber was put with Chickie right after Wild Bill disappeared.
-Jackie DeRoss summoned Black Dom
whose real name is Dominick Dionisio.
Black Dom was in Wild Bill's crew.- I know Jackie summoned Dom because he wanted to meet with him.
- Dom called Joe, worried and upset about a phone call from Jack,
So he asked Joe to go with him.

Joe followed Dom in the car.

Both Dom and Joe had guns because they didn't know what to expect and wanted to be safe.
Joe told Dom to call me as soon as gets a chance

Dom called and said he was with Allie Boy, DeRoss and Georgie Tropiano

Approximately a week and a half after bill disappeared this happened

They asked him what he had going in the street along with a phone card business that he invested in with bill

A week or 2 after Cutolo disappeared, DeRoss called Ritchie Cap very very early in the morning, he wanted to meet

DeRoss and DeMartino were at the meeting, they threatened to kill him if he didn’t tell them what he had on the street

This surprised Joe because Ritchie is an associate who would have done anything that Jackie would have asked of him

Joe went to Jackie’s house and asked him about this, Jackie aid he had to find out about what was going on and to forget about everything, that he’ll put Ritchie with Joe now

- To meet with Allie Boy, Jack and I went to a house in Brooklyn.-
The house was located around 78th Street off of 12th Avenue in Brooklyn.-

Joe drove to the meeting with Allie Boy.-

They didn’t go directly to the house. Jack and I met approximately a block away or a block and a half away before heading there.-

The house where we met Allie Boy was a one-family house attached on one side.-

We entered through the front door.-

Inside the house, there was a living room and a dining room as soon as you walked in.-

Allie Boy, Joe, and Jack DeRoss were present.-

Jack was the one who spoke during the meeting.-

Allie Boy was sitting next to Jack.

Sure, here are the bullet points for what Jack said during the meeting:-

Jack mentioned that they would no longer lie and that Bill was gone.-

He said that it would be business as usual for the family.-

Jackie told Joe that the money he owed Bill would be squashed and not to pay it back.-

Jack asked Joe about my feelings towards Vincent DeMartino.-

Joe told Jack and Allie that he had no issues with Vincent and would help him if needed.-

When Jackie asked about Vincent at that meeting, Joe found it strange. I didn't understand why it would come up

- The meeting with Mr. Persico took place approximately three to four weeks after Billy disappeared.
- Campanella went to Jackie's house first before the meeting with Jack DeRoss and Allie.
- Campanella confirmed being at the club on the night of May 26 when Billy didn't show up.



- Jack DeRoss was arrested approximately in 2001.
- While his charges were pending, he was under house arrest, which meant he had to stay in his home unless he had a medical issue, needed to meet with his lawyer, or had to go to court.
- Joe tried to send messages to Jackie DeRoss while he was on house arrest through his nephew, Skippy DeRoss (Carmine).
- Skippy DeRoss was an associate in the Colombo crime family.
- Joe would meet Skippy on Bay Street in Staten Island, near Jackie's associate Sallie's workplace. There was a delicatessen in the middle of the block where they would meet.
- On the corner, there was a plumbing business, if Joe remembers correctly.

Before Jackie's arrest, Joe saw Jackie and Carmine in Carmine's office.
- After Jackie's arrest, Joe saw other Colombo members or associates that Carmine talked to, including Michael Spataro.
- Joe knows that Michael Spataro was receiving messages because one night at the bar, Michael asked Joey Green Eyes and Chickie if he had shylock money to pick up for Jackie DeRoss.
- Carmine Skippy DeRoss, the person Joe was giving messages for Jackie DeRoss while Jackie was on house arrest.
-, Joe's messages to Jackie didn't get through because he couldn’t he couldn’t reach Jackie’s nephew but he believes others were getting messages through

At some point, Joe's business, Savannah Medical Supply, was searched by the FBI.
- Savannah Medical Supply was located in Brooklyn on 17th Avenue.
- Joe admits to committing crimes through that location, including medical fraud, extortion, and shylocking.
- The location was searched in the early part of 2001.
Joe told Mikey Spats from the Colombo crime family that his business had been searched.
- Joe was shot some weeks after he told Mikey Spats, but he doesn't know the exact number of weeks.
- Joe was shot on July 16, 2001.


- Campanella mentioned that Jackie DeMartino and Chickie DeRoss threatened to kill Richie Cappa if he didn't share information about what was happening on the street.
- Campanella then visited Jackie and found out that Jackie had put Richie Cappa with him after the threats.
- There was a discussion about Richie Cappa's business, including Shylocking and exterminating.
- The conversation shifted to Campanella testifying about the occasion when Richie Cappa told him about the threats from Jackie and Chickie.
- Campanella confirmed that this happened very soon after Billy Cutolo disappeared, approximately two weeks.
- There was a mention of a meeting with Mr. Persico in relation to the meeting with Mr. Cappa.
- Campanella confirmed testifying about one meeting with Persico after Cutolo disappeared.

- The first time Campanella was asked to go anywhere by Mr. DeRoss after Billy Cutolo disappeared was approximately three to four weeks later.
- Campanella went to Jack DeRoss's house before that.
- Campanella went to Jack DeRoss's house to help his friend Richie Cappa shortly after Billy Cutolo disappeared.
- Campanella went to Jackie's house to discuss why he did that with Richie Cappa, as things were changing within the crew after Billy's disappearance.
- Richie Cappa was under Billy Cutolo

- Richie Cappa was placed with Campanella after the incident with Mr. DeMartino and Mr. DeRoss.
- Jackie had told Campanella that Richie Cappa would be with him.
- Richie Cappa remained with Campanella until he started cooperating.
- Tommy Cappa was placed with Campanella after Tommy was released from incarceration.
- The exact year Tommy came home is uncertain, but it was before Campanella went away.
- Tommy remained with Campanella even after Campanella got shot until Campanella was incarcerated.
- Tony Dugera came to Campanella because Tony Del was around a kid named Joey Green.
- There was a dispute between Tony Del and Joey Green, as they weren't getting along.
- Jackie had put Tony Dugera with Campanella.
- This happened approximately in 2001.
Yes, Richie Cappa remained with Campanella until he started cooperating.

CAMPANELLA AND CHICKIE

- Campanella and Chickie DeMartino have known each other since Campanella was seven or eight years old.
- They weren't initially friends, just acquaintances, but they became good friends as they grew up in the neighborhood.
- They didn't see each other on a regular basis in the 1970s and 1980s, maybe just when they bumped into each other in the neighborhood or at the club.
- Vincent DeMartino started protecting Billy Cutolo around 1991.
- Before that, Campanella wasn't around Vincent DeMartino all the time.
- Vincent DeMartino went to jail two or three times, but Campanella doesn't remember the exact dates.
- The first time was probably in the mid-eighties, possibly for robbery.
- In the 1990s, he went to jail for a gun charge, possibly in 1992.


- Campanella doesn't know the exact time, maybe three or four years of chickie’s imprisonment 
- Campanella doesn't recall the specific ways they helped Mr. DeMartino during that period.
- Campanella was asked by Mr. DeMartino and his wife to pick up their daughter from school in the mid-1980s because their family didn't want to help.
- Campanella and Mr. DeMartino were very close during that time, but they didn't call each other or go out together. They were just close friends.


- Nothing happened as a result of the accusation; they never got together to discuss it.
- Mr. Persico didn't take any action regarding the accusation, he left it to bill 
- The accusation was made in the mid-1990s.
- Campanella confirmed that the accusation wasn't true.
- Mr. DeMartino was angry with Campanella after making the accusation, but Campanella doesn't know why.
- Campanella was also angry with Mr. DeMartino for making the false accusation, as it hurt him a lot.



CAMPANELLA IS SHOT


- After driving to West 32nd or West 33rd Street, Joe made a U-turn and parked by a fire hydrant (Johnny pump).
- He then proceeded to go to the beach in Seagate, Coney Island.
- Joe stood at the beach until around 2 o'clock, then went onto the boardwalk where he noticed a pay phone and the green mini-van across the street on Surf Avenue.
- As Joe walked to his car, he realized the green mini-van was coming towards him. He initially thought it was the FBI, but when they were 12 feet away it turned out to be Chickie DeMartino in the passenger seat and John The Barber in the driver's seat.
- Joe waved at them but Vincent DeMartino, and started shooting at Joe who was hit in the arm ,and was hit in the foot.

Joe was shot in his left arm and left foot.
- When he was shot, Joe felt hurt about the Colombo crime family.
- Chickie was a soldier in the Colombo crime family when he shot Joe.
- John The Barber was also a soldier in the Colombo crime family.
- Chickie's captain at the time of the shooting was Jack DeRoss.
- Joe went to the hospital after being shot.
- Representatives of the government visited Joe in the hospital.
- Joe admitted to lying to them on that day.

- Joe initially lied to the government by saying he didn't know who shot him.
- He lied because he was still involved in organized crime at that time.
- Eventually, Joe reached out to the government and started providing them with information.
- He began selling information to the government when he was present with a lawyer.
- This happened a couple of months after he got shot.
- Joe had not been arrested or charged with anything when he started meeting with the government.
- He did talk to the government at that point.

- Joe wasn't ready to cooperate with the government initially and eventually decided to break ties with the mob.
- In the first meetings with the government, before being arrested, Joe wasn't completely honest.
- He left out the information about Vincent DeMartino being the shooter.
- Joe was uncertain, confused, and still involved in the mob at that time.
- He didn't know who to trust and felt dormant in his life for a while.
- Joe was eventually arrested in November 2002.
- He was charged with racketeering, extortion, medical fraud, and loansharking.


Q. Did you cooperate at this point fully?
A. No.
Q. What happened?
A. Then I just was waiting to get out on bail. And as I was waiting to get out on bail, I didn't make it. And I was just waiting for some of my friends to come help my family with money. And then I just learned that there was nothing coming in. And I really had no funds.
And then I was just -- my back was against the wall. And I just decided to cooperate after the holidays.

- Joseph testified that other people weren't bringing him money, which influenced his decision to cooperate.
- His "guys" at the time were Richie Cappa, Tommy Cappa, Tony the Arab, and 2 other associates who were also incarcerated with him 
- These were the people who were Joseph's associates when he was incarcerated in November 2002
. - Joseph didn't ask anyone to collect money for him while he was incarcerated.
- He expected his associates to help him because he had helped them before.
- Richie Cappa, Tony Cappa, and Michael Derunian were not involved in these activities.
- Joseph did receive a new car, a Mercedes, around 1998 or 1999.

- Campanella was asked if he spoke to people in the Colombo family after leaving the hospital.
- He mentioned speaking to someone named Joe Card.
- The person conducting the conversation asked about Richie Cappa, specifically Richie Cappa the Jeweler.
- Campanella clarified that Richie Cappa the Jeweler is a soldier in the family, while Richie Cappa the associate is someone else in the family, not related.
- Campanella confirmed speaking to Richie Cappa the Jeweler after being shot.
- He visited Richie Cappa the Jeweler at his store.
- However, he did not disclose who shot him.
- The conversation then moved on to discussing Rich Cappa, the associate.
- Campanella stated that Rich Cappa was with him and on record with him, but did not provide further details about his business.

- Joseph testified that other people weren't bringing him money, which influenced his decision to cooperate.
- His "guys" at the time were Richie Cappa, Tommy Cappa, Tony the Arab, and 2 other associates who were also incarcerated with him 
- These were the people who were Joseph's associates when he was incarcerated in November 2002.

Joseph didn't ask anyone to collect money for him while he was incarcerated.
- He expected his associates to help him because he had helped them before.


ADMINISTRATION

- Allie Boy Persico went to jail approximately a year and a half after Wild Bill disappeared.
- While Alphonse Persico was in jail, the Colombo crime family was run by a committee, including Joe Waverly, Jack DeRoss, Benji, and Tommy Gioeli.
- Joe knew that Jack DeRoss was helping to run the family after Alphonse Persico went to jail because Jack had told him.
- Joe's relationship with Frankie DeRoss changed after Wild Bill disappeared. He didn't know who to trust, and everything became questionable.
- Joe still met with DeRoss after Wild Bill disappeared.

[Little_Al1991]

Here is a link to the entire docket https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/43 ... er_by=desc

This post contains docket number 813. The dockets after that are transcripts which can be bought for 30 dollars. PACER account is required to buy the other transcripts.

[johnny_scootch]

Good post, Al.

[Little_Al1991]

Good post, Al.

Thank you

[Dr031718]

Thank you for summarizing and sharing Al

[JohnnyS]

Good post. Thanks for sharing!

[Little_Al1991]

Thank you

[TSNYC]

Thank you, very interesting breakdown.

DeRoss was the lynchpin to Cutolo’s demise. He really shifted fully to Persico alliance.

[Little_Al1991]

Thank you, very interesting breakdown.

DeRoss was the lynchpin to Cutolo’s demise. He really shifted fully to Persico alliance.

Thank you

DeRoss would say “I brought bill into this family and then I took him out of this family.” Bill was in Jackie’s crew but then at some point, Bill became a Capo and Jackie started to report to him. I’m not sure why he was demoted

[gohnjotti]

Thank you, very interesting breakdown.

DeRoss was the lynchpin to Cutolo’s demise. He really shifted fully to Persico alliance.

Thank you

DeRoss would say “I brought bill into this family and then I took him out of this family.” Bill was in Jackie’s crew but then at some point, Bill became a Capo and Jackie started to report to him. I’m not sure why he was demoted

He had been in jail for about a decade from the Commission hierarchy case, I believe that's why. Cutolo had a large crew around him and was probably a much better earner than what DeRoss could provide.

[CornerBoy]

jackie deross is human trash. hope he is in hell

How the fuck will big dom earn for the Wstside, no more boiler rooms or ppl to hurt......

[Pmac2]

great read.

[CornerBoy]

if billy fingers was only acting underboss then who was unberboss?

[CornerBoy]

also what happened w joey grreen eyes??

[chin_gigante]

if billy fingers was only acting underboss then who was unberboss?

Campanella was told at the time that Carmine Persico was the only one with an official administration position.

Q You testified that Billy Cutolo eventually held the position of acting underboss. Right?

A Yes.

Q Who was the underboss?

A Billy Cutolo was the acting underboss.

Q Who was the underboss?

A The official underboss?

Q Yes.

A I don't know.

Q Well, what does acting mean?

A This is what was told to me. The only official was Allie's father. That was the only official spot that was there. So now somebody was acting, that somebody representing the family as just an acting boss, somebody to represent us.