Balistrieri Tapes

[PolackTony]

That is the series. I will add photos later. That might take a while.

I’ll echo Cavita, thanks for posting, Pat. Lots of cool stuff here.

[BeatiPaoli]

To PatrickGold: Thank you very much for these posts! Fascinating info! Pardon my ignorance, but is there any way for us on this Forum to access the original 12-part series from October 31, 1988? It would be interesting to read the entire series!

Regards,
BeatiPaoli

[Dr031718]

To PatrickGold: Thank you very much for these posts! Fascinating info! Pardon my ignorance, but is there any way for us on this Forum to access the original 12-part series from October 31, 1988? It would be interesting to read the entire series!

Regards,
BeatiPaoli

The Milwaukee journal did not post all of them. I was on there earlier this week reading the articles and it skipped multiple entries

[DonPeppino386]

Thanks so much for posting this!

I combined all the articles and created a crude word file for viewing that can be found here: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/g9j3mlth ... y2rpd&dl=0

[Hired_Goonz]

Thanks for posting this, incredible stuff. This was great content for a newspaper back in the pre-internet days. Interesting that Lefty brought his wife and her friend out to Milwaukee to wait out that decision in the hotel with the agent, I remember that story from Pistone's book but I don't recall him mentioning that detail.

[Patrickgold]

To PatrickGold: Thank you very much for these posts! Fascinating info! Pardon my ignorance, but is there any way for us on this Forum to access the original 12-part series from October 31, 1988? It would be interesting to read the entire series!

Regards,
BeatiPaoli

I’m sure you can get it from the archives somehow. You will have to pay of course. I’m not sure how far back the Milwaukee newspaper goes back for online archives.

[antimafia]

To PatrickGold: Thank you very much for these posts! Fascinating info! Pardon my ignorance, but is there any way for us on this Forum to access the original 12-part series from October 31, 1988? It would be interesting to read the entire series!

Regards,
BeatiPaoli

The Milwaukee journal did not post all of them. I was on there earlier this week reading the articles and it skipped multiple entries

Correct.

A GangsterBB poster provided the following link to Part 1 when he posted on that forum this past Wednesday:

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/spe ... 145060007/

At the bottom of the above webpage is a link to Part 2, and at the bottom of Part 2 is a link to Part 5.

[Antiliar]

To PatrickGold: Thank you very much for these posts! Fascinating info! Pardon my ignorance, but is there any way for us on this Forum to access the original 12-part series from October 31, 1988? It would be interesting to read the entire series!

Regards,
BeatiPaoli

The Milwaukee journal did not post all of them. I was on there earlier this week reading the articles and it skipped multiple entries

Correct.

A GangsterBB poster provided the following link to Part 1 when he posted on that forum this past Wednesday:

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/spe ... 145060007/

At the bottom of the above webpage is a link to Part 2, and at the bottom of Part 2 is a link to Part 5.

The link only works for subscribers.

[Adam]

So this is absolutely a great thread. So much information about Milwaukee and Balistrieri. I realize this is just a series of articles but it really does back up the idea that Milwaukee was almost completely subservient to Chicago. Which isn't surprising. But still. And it also helps explain some of the disdain that Civella had for Balistrieri that comes across in books and articles. And the complete difference between Kansas City and their relationship with Chicago, and Milwaukee's relationship with Chicago. So different. But different bosses. Balistrieri vs Civella. But it does just remind me of Lefty telling Pistone that Balistrieri ran so much in the midwest. Another Lefty being totally oblivious quote. "Mike says this guy's the biggest man in the Midwest. He didn't get what he's got just by staying in Milwaukee. He owns Kansas City. Cleveland and Detroit belong to Frank. I just found that out. He's on a plane every day. He stays here one, two days a week." Gotta love Lefty. I research Detroit and when I read that I just laugh my ass off. Doesn't quite fit with the cheap Balistrieri bitching about restaurants. No mentions of flying around everywhere to keep tabs on his empire. I kid.

[B.]

Joe Bonanno rambling on to Balistrieri, who can't get a word in, then when Balistrieri tries to speak Bonanno tells him he's "too tired" to talk. Love it. He was just a polished version of Magaddino.

The bit about Balistrieri refusing to help Maniaci with his legal trouble was right around the time Maniaci flipped. I'm very familiar with the recording of Balistrieri discussing the Sciortino/DiBella/Bonanno problem with the council but hadn't heard of the one where he discusses killing Maniaci and Aiello. It looks to have ended almost identically to the Sciortino one, with the council and especially Alioto trying to stop Balistrieri from trying to kill people.

Interesting he said himself that he modeled himself after Al Capone. One of the Milwaukee members once complained that Balistrieri operated like a Camorrista. All of his gangster bravado was like night and day with most of that Family and the bosses before him, no wonder a faction of older members were constantly trying to get him deposed.

Re: Lefty telling "Conte" that to get made in Milwaukee he might have to do a hit. In the 1970s a rumor circulated in Milwaukee that Pete Balistrieri had been made without actually participating in a hit and that Frank had lied to get him in. If I remember right, Balistrieri's female arch-nemesis Sally Papia was said to have spread the rumor. Kansas City also reportedly held fast to the rule about committing murder to be made and Maniaci made it sound like Rockford did too. Chicago is another that seems to have leaned heavily into that. The Midwest might have faded more quickly than the East Coast but in many ways they were more true to the traditional mafia (which might have actually contributed to them fading, i.e. they didn't adapt).

Another interesting detail... John Balistrieri telling his mother that her great-great-grandfather and father were in the life. Of course John Alioto was involved and maybe he was using hyperbole with the great-great-grandfather part but it does tell us the Alioto line was part of the mafia going back to Santa Flavia. Not that this is in any way surprising and it wouldn't be surprising either to find out he meant it literally, these clans no doubt being able to trace their mafia lineage back several generations.

[cavita]

So this is absolutely a great thread. So much information about Milwaukee and Balistrieri. I realize this is just a series of articles but it really does back up the idea that Milwaukee was almost completely subservient to Chicago. Which isn't surprising. But still. And it also helps explain some of the disdain that Civella had for Balistrieri that comes across in books and articles. And the complete difference between Kansas City and their relationship with Chicago, and Milwaukee's relationship with Chicago. So different. But different bosses. Balistrieri vs Civella. But it does just remind me of Lefty telling Pistone that Balistrieri ran so much in the midwest. Another Lefty being totally oblivious quote. "Mike says this guy's the biggest man in the Midwest. He didn't get what he's got just by staying in Milwaukee. He owns Kansas City. Cleveland and Detroit belong to Frank. I just found that out. He's on a plane every day. He stays here one, two days a week." Gotta love Lefty. I research Detroit and when I read that I just laugh my ass off. Doesn't quite fit with the cheap Balistrieri bitching about restaurants. No mentions of flying around everywhere to keep tabs on his empire. I kid.

Balistrieri was a braggart and I feel he was not happy about being under the thumb of Chicago so heavily. When Bonanno soldier Benjamin “Lefty” Ruggiero suggested he travel to Rockford to thank the Rockford men for setting up the July 1978 meeting, Balistrieri was quoted as saying, “No, they’re nothing. They’re under the boss of Chicago,” and he (Balistrieri) proposed to introduce Ruggiero and Cobb to the top Chicago boss himself. Balistrieri had to get the okay from Chicago to pretty much do anything there so that comment was laughable.

Balistrieri was also caught on tape talking about Joe Amato, the area boss of McHenry County, who was in charge of gambling in that county and who also was a ranking member of the Chicago Outfit. Balistrieri had told undercover agent Cobb, in his role as "Tony Conte," that Amato was “put in McHenry County to control vending for the Milwaukee organization.” He was also quoted as saying, “now he’s (Amato) acting like he belongs to the Chicago crew rather than Milwaukee,” Cobb testified at the trial. The simple fact was that Amato always belonged to Chicago and was very close to Outfit boss Tony Accardo. Balistrieri’s comments were clearly an attempt to try and downplay the roles of those around him and elevate himself to a higher position especially to agent Cobb.

[Patrickgold]

So this is absolutely a great thread. So much information about Milwaukee and Balistrieri. I realize this is just a series of articles but it really does back up the idea that Milwaukee was almost completely subservient to Chicago. Which isn't surprising. But still. And it also helps explain some of the disdain that Civella had for Balistrieri that comes across in books and articles. And the complete difference between Kansas City and their relationship with Chicago, and Milwaukee's relationship with Chicago. So different. But different bosses. Balistrieri vs Civella. But it does just remind me of Lefty telling Pistone that Balistrieri ran so much in the midwest. Another Lefty being totally oblivious quote. "Mike says this guy's the biggest man in the Midwest. He didn't get what he's got just by staying in Milwaukee. He owns Kansas City. Cleveland and Detroit belong to Frank. I just found that out. He's on a plane every day. He stays here one, two days a week." Gotta love Lefty. I research Detroit and when I read that I just laugh my ass off. Doesn't quite fit with the cheap Balistrieri bitching about restaurants. No mentions of flying around everywhere to keep tabs on his empire. I kid.

Balistrieri was a braggart and I feel he was not happy about being under the thumb of Chicago so heavily. When Bonanno soldier Benjamin “Lefty” Ruggiero suggested he travel to Rockford to thank the Rockford men for setting up the July 1978 meeting, Balistrieri was quoted as saying, “No, they’re nothing. They’re under the boss of Chicago,” and he (Balistrieri) proposed to introduce Ruggiero and Cobb to the top Chicago boss himself. Balistrieri had to get the okay from Chicago to pretty much do anything there so that comment was laughable.

Balistrieri was also caught on tape talking about Joe Amato, the area boss of McHenry County, who was in charge of gambling in that county and who also was a ranking member of the Chicago Outfit. Balistrieri had told undercover agent Cobb, in his role as "Tony Conte," that Amato was “put in McHenry County to control vending for the Milwaukee organization.” He was also quoted as saying, “now he’s (Amato) acting like he belongs to the Chicago crew rather than Milwaukee,” Cobb testified at the trial. The simple fact was that Amato always belonged to Chicago and was very close to Outfit boss Tony Accardo. Balistrieri’s comments were clearly an attempt to try and downplay the roles of those around him and elevate himself to a higher position especially to agent Cobb.

You’re right Cavita. The more I read about Milwaukee the more it reminds of what they called the New Jersey family. A glorified crew. There is a reason why they became nothing after Frankie Bal was put in prison.

[Parrickgold]

How FBI agent Joe Pistone, undercover as Donnie Brasco, helped infiltrate the Milwaukee Mafia
Milwaukee Journal Sentinel investigative reporter Mary Spicuzza interviews former FBI undercover agent Joe Pistone, also known as Donnie Brasco, about his work in Milwaukee.
Mary Spicuzza
Milwaukee Journal Sentinel
Organized crime in Milwaukee has never been as infamous as the Chicago Outfit or the New York Mafia. But reputed Milwaukee crime boss Frank Balistrieri was notorious enough by the late 1970s that renowned undercover FBI agent Joseph Pistone came here to help investigate.

Pistone was later portrayed by Johnny Depp in “Donnie Brasco,” a 1997 movie that also starred Al Pacino as New York crime family member Benjamin “Lefty” Ruggiero.

When I started doing research for my investigation into my cousin's 1978 car bombing murder, widely believed to have been ordered by Balistrieri, a coworker mentioned Pistone wrote about Milwaukee in his book that inspired the film.

As soon as I read it, I knew I needed to talk to Pistone. I wasn’t sure of the best way to approach him — especially since the Mafia put out a $500,000 contract on him in the early 1980s — but reached him through the producer for his podcast, “Deep Cover: The Real Donnie Brasco.”

We spoke at length about his time in Milwaukee. Below are excerpts of that conversation, edited for length and clarity.


A marriage between two crime families

Pistone's work in Milwaukee included vouching for another undercover FBI agent, Gail "Ty" Cobb, who was trying to infiltrate the Balistrieri crime family by posing as a vending machine businessman named Tony Conte. Pistone visited Milwaukee several times in 1978 to try to "form a marriage" between the Balistrieri and Bonanno crime families.

Spicuzza: Do you remember what Frank Balistrieri's reputation was like back then?

Pistone: Frank Balistrieri was the head of a Mafia family in Milwaukee, which was aligned and associated with the Mafia families out of Chicago (the Outfit). And he was also a very well known Mafia boss throughout the United States.

He had some college education. But he was still a ruthless individual, according to my Mafia contacts that I was associated with in the Bonanno crime family.

He actually controlled everything that happened, both illegally and a lot of times legally.

Spicuzza: What do you remember about him from your meetings or your dealings with him?

Pistone: He was a little short, pudgy guy. Very dapper looking. Every time I saw him he was in a suit — dressed in a suit and very well-spoken. And you could see that when he made a point, none of the people that were with him disputed whatever he said. I mean, what he said was a rule of law.

After (one) meeting at Snug's, at the restaurant, he invited us to his house for dinner the next night. If you know anything about the Mafia, you don't go to a boss's house for dinner. I mean, not in New York, anyway. And he actually picked us up at our hotel, which was also crazy, for us being New York mob guys.

Life undercover

As Pistone developed ties with Balistrieri and his associates, he went through both stressful and humorous moments. That included close calls with getting found out, and the antics of "Lefty" Ruggiero, who at one point confused Lake Michigan with the ocean.

Spicuzza: Lefty wanted to take a speedboat from New York to Milwaukee?

Pistone: Yeah. Ty was showing us around Milwaukee and we're driving along the lake, and he says, "That's one of the Great Lakes." And Lefty looks out and he says, "It's not a lake. That's the ocean." There were freighters out there, and he said, "You see that big ship out there? That ship couldn't float on a lake. It's got to be the ocean."

Yeah, OK, Lefty. The ocean where? The middle of the United States?

There were some other good (stories). Another one was, Ty was one of the best undercovers I ever worked with. I mean, he was good. But we're in a car one day. It might have been the same time. And he was driving and Lefty was riding shotgun, and I'm in the back. And Ty must have had a brain freeze because he keeps calling me Joe. He'd say, "Isn't that right, Joe?"

An undated FBI surveillance photo shows Joe Pistone undercover as Donnie Brasco.
Lefty finally says, "Tony, who the F is Joe? There's me, you and Donnie in this car. Who the F is Joe?"

So without missing a beat, Ty says, "That's the new thing here in Milwaukee: everybody's Joe. Every place you go, you call somebody, you call them Joe." So all night we go to a restaurant and Ty is calling a bartender Joe, is calling a waiter Joe, is calling a waitress Joe.

You know, there were some comical moments during the six years.

Spicuzza: Do you remember the reaction when my cousin, Augie Palmisano, was car bombed?

Pistone: Ty had a remote starter put on his car. And at one of the meetings we had with (Frank) Balistrieri, we're talking about snitches, and he said, “Yeah, you can tell all the snitches because they have remote starters on their car.”

And here Tony Conte, the undercover, had a remote starter on his car. So that kind of, you know, shook him up a little bit.

Spicuzza: Did you often not know who was an informant when you were undercover?

Pistone: No, I did not. I didn't want to know who an informant was, or if the FBI had added any informants in any of the groups. I said, "Look, if you do have informants, don't tell them that there's an undercover FBI agent there. I don't want to know who the informant is." Because it's human nature. You're going to act different if you know that somebody is on your side, so to speak.

Frozen out

In late 1978, Balistrieri froze out Cobb, reportedly after discovering he was an undercover agent. It led to the end of Pistone's time in Milwaukee, but by then, the two had already collected extensive information that was later used in federal gambling and extortion cases against Balistrieri and his associates.

Spicuzza: How do you think they could have found out that Tony Conte, or Ty Cobb, was an undercover agent?

Pistone: Well, there had to be a leak somewhere. Where, we don't know. But Ty had been a cop in a town outside of Milwaukee at one point in time. And I'm sure that they checked what individuals knew regarding Ty. And I think that's probably how they found out. There had to be a leak somewhere.

Spicuzza: If Balistrieri had found out Ty was an undercover agent, why do you think he didn't tell the Bonannos or the other crime families?

Pistone: I don't know. I'll be honest with you. I mean, I don't know. It's the craziest thing that they never they never blew the whistle.

We tried to figure it out. I tried to figure it out. I don't know that they thought that he was an FBI agent or just an undercover cop. I don't know. But the reason they never told New York or Chicago is beyond me. I mean, it doesn't make any sense.

Going to trial

Pistone's work in Milwaukee helped federal prosecutors eventually convict Balistrieri of gambling, extortion and conspiracy during a series of trials in the 1980s. Pistone and Cobb were among those who testified in Milwaukee.

Spicuzza: I think it was in Milwaukee where Frank Balistrieri’s attorney was asking you questions about where your family lived.

Pistone: Oh, definitely. His line of questioning started about where I resided, et cetera. And I told him I’m not going to answer, it has no relevance to my investigation.

The judge ordered me to answer, and I told the judge, “Your Honor, I'm not answering. I'm not answering where I reside, where my family resides." He said, "Well, I'll hold you in contempt of court." I said, "Do what do you have to do."

And then finally, the prosecutor (John Franke) called the side conference in and advised the judge that there was a $500,000 contract out of me at the time. So the judge told him, "Just move on. We don't need to answer that question."

(At another point in the trial)

Pistone: It was late into the afternoon. And my voice was going, and I didn't have any water by the witness stand … so (the defense attorney) poured a glass of water from his table, from the defense table, and brings it to me. So I take the glass and I look at it and I say, "You take a sip first."

So he did. He took it, took a sip. And I said, "OK, now I'll have a drink of it."

The jury, everybody, even the judge laughed.

Life after the trials

In addition to the Balistrieri trials, Pistone testified at a number of other trials around the country involving organized crime figures. He still does not disclose where he and his family live.

Spicuzza: Have you noticed in your work a kind of the glorification of the Mafia and misunderstanding of what they're really like?

Pistone: Back in their heyday, yeah, they were glorified. If they knew that you were even associated with the Mafia, you were treated like royalty. And of course, if you had an Italian last name, (it was assumed you had) some association with the Mafia.

I don't think it's so much anymore today. And I'm proud to say that our case was the beginning of all the Mafia cases that brought the downfall of them. They're not as strong. They have nowhere near the strength today that they had back in the day. They're just another criminal element, another criminal organization. I don't even know if Milwaukee has any any Mafia members there.

Spicuzza: Do you have any other memories of Milwaukee?

Pistone: Bad winters. Bad winters. Good Lord, I remember one snowstorm — I don't know how many feet of snow there was, but wow. And cold. That's what I remember.

And good restaurants. A lot of good restaurants in Milwaukee.

Contact Mary Spicuzza at (414) 224-2324 or mary.spicuzza@jrn.com. Follow her on Twitter at @MSpicuzzaMJS

[Patrickgold]

How FBI agent Joe Pistone, undercover as Donnie Brasco, helped infiltrate the Milwaukee Mafia

Milwaukee Journal Sentinel investigative reporter Mary Spicuzza interviews former FBI undercover agent Joe Pistone, also known as Donnie Brasco, about his work in Milwaukee.

Mary Spicuzza
Milwaukee Journal Sentinel

Organized crime in Milwaukee has never been as infamous as the Chicago Outfit or the New York Mafia. But reputed Milwaukee crime boss Frank Balistrieri was notorious enough by the late 1970s that renowned undercover FBI agent Joseph Pistone came here to help investigate.

Pistone was later portrayed by Johnny Depp in “Donnie Brasco,” a 1997 movie that also starred Al Pacino as New York crime family member Benjamin “Lefty” Ruggiero.

When I started doing research for my investigation into my cousin's 1978 car bombing murder, widely believed to have been ordered by Balistrieri, a coworker mentioned Pistone wrote about Milwaukee in his book that inspired the film.

As soon as I read it, I knew I needed to talk to Pistone. I wasn’t sure of the best way to approach him — especially since the Mafia put out a $500,000 contract on him in the early 1980s — but reached him through the producer for his podcast, “Deep Cover: The Real Donnie Brasco.”

We spoke at length about his time in Milwaukee. Below are excerpts of that conversation, edited for length and clarity.


A marriage between two crime families

Pistone's work in Milwaukee included vouching for another undercover FBI agent, Gail "Ty" Cobb, who was trying to infiltrate the Balistrieri crime family by posing as a vending machine businessman named Tony Conte. Pistone visited Milwaukee several times in 1978 to try to "form a marriage" between the Balistrieri and Bonanno crime families.

Spicuzza: Do you remember what Frank Balistrieri's reputation was like back then?

Pistone: Frank Balistrieri was the head of a Mafia family in Milwaukee, which was aligned and associated with the Mafia families out of Chicago (the Outfit). And he was also a very well known Mafia boss throughout the United States.

He had some college education. But he was still a ruthless individual, according to my Mafia contacts that I was associated with in the Bonanno crime family.

He actually controlled everything that happened, both illegally and a lot of times legally.

Spicuzza: What do you remember about him from your meetings or your dealings with him?

Pistone: He was a little short, pudgy guy. Very dapper looking. Every time I saw him he was in a suit — dressed in a suit and very well-spoken. And you could see that when he made a point, none of the people that were with him disputed whatever he said. I mean, what he said was a rule of law.

After (one) meeting at Snug's, at the restaurant, he invited us to his house for dinner the next night. If you know anything about the Mafia, you don't go to a boss's house for dinner. I mean, not in New York, anyway. And he actually picked us up at our hotel, which was also crazy, for us being New York mob guys.

Life undercover

As Pistone developed ties with Balistrieri and his associates, he went through both stressful and humorous moments. That included close calls with getting found out, and the antics of "Lefty" Ruggiero, who at one point confused Lake Michigan with the ocean.

Spicuzza: Lefty wanted to take a speedboat from New York to Milwaukee?

Pistone: Yeah. Ty was showing us around Milwaukee and we're driving along the lake, and he says, "That's one of the Great Lakes." And Lefty looks out and he says, "It's not a lake. That's the ocean." There were freighters out there, and he said, "You see that big ship out there? That ship couldn't float on a lake. It's got to be the ocean."

Yeah, OK, Lefty. The ocean where? The middle of the United States?

There were some other good (stories). Another one was, Ty was one of the best undercovers I ever worked with. I mean, he was good. But we're in a car one day. It might have been the same time. And he was driving and Lefty was riding shotgun, and I'm in the back. And Ty must have had a brain freeze because he keeps calling me Joe. He'd say, "Isn't that right, Joe?"

An undated FBI surveillance photo shows Joe Pistone undercover as Donnie Brasco.
Lefty finally says, "Tony, who the F is Joe? There's me, you and Donnie in this car. Who the F is Joe?"

So without missing a beat, Ty says, "That's the new thing here in Milwaukee: everybody's Joe. Every place you go, you call somebody, you call them Joe." So all night we go to a restaurant and Ty is calling a bartender Joe, is calling a waiter Joe, is calling a waitress Joe.

You know, there were some comical moments during the six years.

Spicuzza: Do you remember the reaction when my cousin, Augie Palmisano, was car bombed?

Pistone: Ty had a remote starter put on his car. And at one of the meetings we had with (Frank) Balistrieri, we're talking about snitches, and he said, “Yeah, you can tell all the snitches because they have remote starters on their car.”

And here Tony Conte, the undercover, had a remote starter on his car. So that kind of, you know, shook him up a little bit.

Spicuzza: Did you often not know who was an informant when you were undercover?

Pistone: No, I did not. I didn't want to know who an informant was, or if the FBI had added any informants in any of the groups. I said, "Look, if you do have informants, don't tell them that there's an undercover FBI agent there. I don't want to know who the informant is." Because it's human nature. You're going to act different if you know that somebody is on your side, so to speak.

Frozen out

In late 1978, Balistrieri froze out Cobb, reportedly after discovering he was an undercover agent. It led to the end of Pistone's time in Milwaukee, but by then, the two had already collected extensive information that was later used in federal gambling and extortion cases against Balistrieri and his associates.

Spicuzza: How do you think they could have found out that Tony Conte, or Ty Cobb, was an undercover agent?

Pistone: Well, there had to be a leak somewhere. Where, we don't know. But Ty had been a cop in a town outside of Milwaukee at one point in time. And I'm sure that they checked what individuals knew regarding Ty. And I think that's probably how they found out. There had to be a leak somewhere.

Spicuzza: If Balistrieri had found out Ty was an undercover agent, why do you think he didn't tell the Bonannos or the other crime families?

Pistone: I don't know. I'll be honest with you. I mean, I don't know. It's the craziest thing that they never they never blew the whistle.

We tried to figure it out. I tried to figure it out. I don't know that they thought that he was an FBI agent or just an undercover cop. I don't know. But the reason they never told New York or Chicago is beyond me. I mean, it doesn't make any sense.

Going to trial

Pistone's work in Milwaukee helped federal prosecutors eventually convict Balistrieri of gambling, extortion and conspiracy during a series of trials in the 1980s. Pistone and Cobb were among those who testified in Milwaukee.

Spicuzza: I think it was in Milwaukee where Frank Balistrieri’s attorney was asking you questions about where your family lived.

Pistone: Oh, definitely. His line of questioning started about where I resided, et cetera. And I told him I’m not going to answer, it has no relevance to my investigation.

The judge ordered me to answer, and I told the judge, “Your Honor, I'm not answering. I'm not answering where I reside, where my family resides." He said, "Well, I'll hold you in contempt of court." I said, "Do what do you have to do."

And then finally, the prosecutor (John Franke) called the side conference in and advised the judge that there was a $500,000 contract out of me at the time. So the judge told him, "Just move on. We don't need to answer that question."

(At another point in the trial)

Pistone: It was late into the afternoon. And my voice was going, and I didn't have any water by the witness stand … so (the defense attorney) poured a glass of water from his table, from the defense table, and brings it to me. So I take the glass and I look at it and I say, "You take a sip first."

So he did. He took it, took a sip. And I said, "OK, now I'll have a drink of it."

The jury, everybody, even the judge laughed.

Life after the trials

In addition to the Balistrieri trials, Pistone testified at a number of other trials around the country involving organized crime figures. He still does not disclose where he and his family live.

Spicuzza: Have you noticed in your work a kind of the glorification of the Mafia and misunderstanding of what they're really like?

Pistone: Back in their heyday, yeah, they were glorified. If they knew that you were even associated with the Mafia, you were treated like royalty. And of course, if you had an Italian last name, (it was assumed you had) some association with the Mafia.

I don't think it's so much anymore today. And I'm proud to say that our case was the beginning of all the Mafia cases that brought the downfall of them. They're not as strong. They have nowhere near the strength today that they had back in the day. They're just another criminal element, another criminal organization. I don't even know if Milwaukee has any any Mafia members there.

Spicuzza: Do you have any other memories of Milwaukee?

Pistone: Bad winters. Bad winters. Good Lord, I remember one snowstorm — I don't know how many feet of snow there was, but wow. And cold. That's what I remember.

And good restaurants. A lot of good restaurants in Milwaukee.

Contact Mary Spicuzza at (414) 224-2324 or mary.spicuzza@jrn.com. Follow her on Twitter at @MSpicuzzaMJS

[Patrickgold]

This looks interesting. It looks like John Balistrieri is doing a documentary or podcast titled “Life Sentences”.

https://youtu.be/7MYp90o4Tls?si=df1VMh2oXlu3dz0y

I also see that Kurt Calabrese also did the same type of podcast/documentary. Check out the below link.

https://www.entropymedia.art/shows

There also a podcast about the Chicago board of trade corruption called BROKERS, BAGMEN, & MOLES. It mentions organized crime ties