If stanfa never made merlino

[bluehouse]

I dont know much about Philly but i just found out that pre the philly war Merlino and his friends were causing trouble and stanfa thought that if he made them they would appreciate it and fall in line.Obviously that never happened so if stanfa never made them once the philly war was over than merlino could never be a boss so even if he won the war which he did it wouldve been useless.Im guessing maybe Natale takes over and then he makes merlino and his friends.But what a stupid move by stanfa

[Adam]

Well, its a little more complicated than that since Natale got made by Merlino when he got out. The Merlino guys would have found some old made guy from the Bruno days or from Scarfo's time that was out of prison and made him and his friends. They would have found a way.

[newera_212]

I don't know much about Philly either and could be way off base here, but I don't think it would have mattered. Made, not made, made by Stanfa, made by Natale or some other stooge, it seemed like Merlino and his guys weren't going to get in line behind anyone but themselves or maybe someone they respected and knew their whole lives. The way I always saw it is that Merlino basically made himself a boss. Finding someone who could plausibly induct Merlino and his guys wouldn't have been hard. They were just going to do what they wanted and hit back if anyone tried to stop them. Merlino was giving people problems as early as when Scarfo Sr. got sentenced - so (I could be wrong) it seems to be that it wasn't something 100% personal against Stanfa, but something against the system and old guard in general.

Not sure if the 'commission' was even technically together during this time since the NY families were all going through their own problems, but it's apparent that none of them were all that vested in what was happening with Philly. I know some family "backed" Stanfa (I think the Gambinos and the Sicilian Gambinos?) but what did that really do? Contrast that with like a decade or so earlier, the Genovese had a big say-so in what was happening in Philly. Even though they engineered a lot of those problems and it was all a ruse, they did ostensibly hold someone accountable for killing a boss, and helped get successors appointed.

I wonder how it would have all shaped out if the NY families didn't have so much going on themselves and took active stances on what was happening in Philly. Would Merlino and his guys listened or cared? I know much later on, some Philly guys like Mazzone traveled to NY to meet the Colombo acting administration in Brooklyn, so I can only assume the Merlino regime was recognized by the Colombos at the very least

[Cheech]

^^ agree
I also think hes way more liked in that life than ppl think. He made all these relationships in jail. Hes been in half his life.
I listen to anthony ruggiano a lot and he said his father was dear friends with joey. And from outside looking in you would think fat andy and joey merlino are complete opposites.
Also i dont listen to Pennissi often (his tone and attitude is a turn off) said he got them a table at peter lugers through lenny dimaria. Another old school guy you wouldnt think would mix with joey but joey called him and lenny got them a table. I bet its all jail related.

[AntComello]

^^ agree
I also think hes way more liked in that life than ppl think. He made all these relationships in jail. Hes been in half his life.
I listen to anthony ruggiano a lot and he said his father was dear friends with joey. And from outside looking in you would think fat andy and joey merlino are complete opposites.
Also i dont listen to Pennissi often (his tone and attitude is a turn off) said he got them a table at peter lugers through lenny dimaria. Another old school guy you wouldnt think would mix with joey but joey called him and lenny got them a table. I bet its all jail related.

You make some great points that I think a lot of people do not realize. He is respected by old school guys, new school guys and criminals of all colors. I think the over all attitude toward Joey is “it’s just the way the guy is” long as he’s not talking about them who gives a shit he’s only going to hurt himself.

[stubbs]

^^ agree
I also think hes way more liked in that life than ppl think. He made all these relationships in jail. Hes been in half his life.
I listen to anthony ruggiano a lot and he said his father was dear friends with joey. And from outside looking in you would think fat andy and joey merlino are complete opposites.
Also i dont listen to Pennissi often (his tone and attitude is a turn off) said he got them a table at peter lugers through lenny dimaria. Another old school guy you wouldnt think would mix with joey but joey called him and lenny got them a table. I bet its all jail related.

You make some great points that I think a lot of people do not realize. He is respected by old school guys, new school guys and criminals of all colors. I think the over all attitude toward Joey is “it’s just the way the guy is” long as he’s not talking about them who gives a shit he’s only going to hurt himself.

Not only that, but his father was an underboss. So Joey probably already knew people in other families since he was a kid, and people in the life who didn’t know him probably knew his last name.

He also wasn’t some random punk kid who started trouble, he was around heavyweight guys like Nicky Scaro (boss), his father Chuckie (ub), Phil Testa (boss), Salvie Testa (capo), Phil Leonetti (ub), etc his whole life.

The beef with Stanfa was that he was an outsider who wasn’t from the neighborhood, shown by why he had to rely on guys like Previtie and Veasey.

[AntComello]

^^ agree
I also think hes way more liked in that life than ppl think. He made all these relationships in jail. Hes been in half his life.
I listen to anthony ruggiano a lot and he said his father was dear friends with joey. And from outside looking in you would think fat andy and joey merlino are complete opposites.
Also i dont listen to Pennissi often (his tone and attitude is a turn off) said he got them a table at peter lugers through lenny dimaria. Another old school guy you wouldnt think would mix with joey but joey called him and lenny got them a table. I bet its all jail related.

You make some great points that I think a lot of people do not realize. He is respected by old school guys, new school guys and criminals of all colors. I think the over all attitude toward Joey is “it’s just the way the guy is” long as he’s not talking about them who gives a shit he’s only going to hurt himself.

Not only that, but his father was an underboss. So Joey probably already knew people in other families since he was a kid, and people in the life who didn’t know him probably knew his last name.

He also wasn’t some random punk kid who started trouble, he was around heavyweight guys like Nicky Scaro (boss), his father Chuckie (ub), Phil Testa (boss), Salvie Testa (capo), Phil Leonetti (ub), etc his whole life.

The beef with Stanfa was that he was an outsider who wasn’t from the neighborhood, shown by why he had to rely on guys like Previtie and Veasey.

More great points. The good outweighs the bad with him. Plus he’s proven that he and his guys close to him will never rat so I’m sure a lot of guys respect that.

[Adam]

^^ agree
I also think hes way more liked in that life than ppl think. He made all these relationships in jail. Hes been in half his life.
I listen to anthony ruggiano a lot and he said his father was dear friends with joey. And from outside looking in you would think fat andy and joey merlino are complete opposites.
Also i dont listen to Pennissi often (his tone and attitude is a turn off) said he got them a table at peter lugers through lenny dimaria. Another old school guy you wouldnt think would mix with joey but joey called him and lenny got them a table. I bet its all jail related.

You make some great points that I think a lot of people do not realize. He is respected by old school guys, new school guys and criminals of all colors. I think the over all attitude toward Joey is “it’s just the way the guy is” long as he’s not talking about them who gives a shit he’s only going to hurt himself.

Not only that, but his father was an underboss. So Joey probably already knew people in other families since he was a kid, and people in the life who didn’t know him probably knew his last name.

He also wasn’t some random punk kid who started trouble, he was around heavyweight guys like Nicky Scaro (boss), his father Chuckie (ub), Phil Testa (boss), Salvie Testa (capo), Phil Leonetti (ub), etc his whole life.

The beef with Stanfa was that he was an outsider who wasn’t from the neighborhood, shown by why he had to rely on guys like Previtie and Veasey.

All makes sense. The only thing is that most of what was left of the Bruno-Scarfo organization in 1990-1992 didn't seem to have an issue with Stanfa taking over. It seems to be pretty much just Merlino and Michael Cincaglini and their friends. Yeah he had to rely on new people in desperation(Veasey being the obviously worst call) but if you actually look at the 1990 Organized Crime Report, pretty much everyone listed as still active and not in prison were either actually retired or became part of the Stanfa organization. Guys like Gary Tavella, Joe Altimari, Michael Forte......And then he brings in the guys from Riccobene's crew, Esposito, Martines, Colletti.....and he had support from the important made members who were still active. Piccolo, Sparacio, Bocchino, Sodano, Licata......And Pagano and Tripodi while not made when he took over had been around for a while. And he did bring in Joey Ciancaglini too. So you can say that it was because he was an "outsider" but I feel like the exact same thing would have happened if Anthony Piccolo had just become official boss. Merlino and Michael Ciancaglini would have done the same thing.

[chin_gigante]

If Stanfa never made Merlino but everything else happened the way it did, I don't think much would have changed. By the close of the war, the Genovese family was backing Natale to take over as boss, and him not being made yet didn't really matter. It just required Merlino to hold a ceremony so he could be immediately elevated to the top position. So if Merlino hadn't been made by Stanfa, I think they would've just got Ronald Turchi or somebody else to make him and Natale.

[Adam]

If Stanfa never made Merlino but everything else happened the way it did, I don't think much would have changed. By the close of the war, the Genovese family was backing Natale to take over as boss, and him not being made yet didn't really matter. It just required Merlino to hold a ceremony so he could be immediately elevated to the top position. So if Merlino hadn't been made by Stanfa, I think they would've just got Ronald Turchi or somebody else to make him and Natale.

Yeah, I was trying to think of who they would use to make him in that scenario. Forgot about Turchi. But that would be someone they would pick. I was trying to think if Joseph Cinacaglini Sr. would have been out of prison then. If so I was thinking of him. And we know Scoops would have done it. But something about a North Jersey guy doing Philly ceremonies might seem off. But who knows. But yeah Turchi would have been a logical guess.

[bluehouse]

Not sure if the 'commission' was even technically together during this time since the NY families were all going through their own problems, but it's apparent that none of them were all that vested in what was happening with Philly. I know some family "backed" Stanfa (I think the Gambinos and the Sicilian Gambinos?) but what did that really do? Contrast that with like a decade or so earlier, the Genovese had a big say-so in what was happening in Philly. Even though they engineered a lot of those problems and it was all a ruse, they did ostensibly hold someone accountable for killing a boss, and helped get successors appointed.

I wonder how it would have all shaped out if the NY families didn't have so much going on themselves and took active stances on what was happening in Philly. Would Merlino and his guys listened or cared? I know much later on, some Philly guys like Mazzone traveled to NY to meet the Colombo acting administration in Brooklyn, so I can only assume the Merlino regime was recognized by the Colombos at the very least

The Gambinos were completely useless for stanfa.The stanfa vs merlino faction was equal in numbers but Merlino had the younger hungrier guys.The Gambinos could of sent afew shooters their way and Merlino wouldve lost who was he going to run too?Natale is a liar but i do beleive him when he says that he was the one with the contacts in NY and merlino and his guys only had each other.Natale was in and out of prison his entire adult life thats were he made friends with NY guys plus he was the same age as them.If Stanfa was tight with the genevese instead of the gambinos i would bet they wouldve helped him win the war

[NJShore4Life]

^^ agree
I also think hes way more liked in that life than ppl think. He made all these relationships in jail. Hes been in half his life.
I listen to anthony ruggiano a lot and he said his father was dear friends with joey. And from outside looking in you would think fat andy and joey merlino are complete opposites.
Also i dont listen to Pennissi often (his tone and attitude is a turn off) said he got them a table at peter lugers through lenny dimaria. Another old school guy you wouldnt think would mix with joey but joey called him and lenny got them a table. I bet its all jail related.

100% Spot on, Joey does time really well and spent almost half of his life in jail, he made a lot of friends and connections doing all the time he did over the years. This podcast thing is just another way for Joey to line his pockets, win public favor with donations to charities, and most importantly have a platform. Even in the 90s Joey was giving quotes to the media and even courting the media constantly , this whole podcast thing is just another way of Joey working the PR angle that he’s been working his whole life….Very Witty and Fun guy to hang out with too who can party and hang with the best of them!

-Dante

[Browniety86]

Did Stanfa really make Johnny Veasey?

[Adam]

Did Stanfa really make Johnny Veasey?

Yes. He and Vincent Filipelli were made in the same ceremony in 1993.

[Mikeymike12]

Well, its a little more complicated than that since Natale got made by Merlino when he got out. The Merlino guys would have found some old made guy from the Bruno days or from Scarfo's time that was out of prison and made him and his friends. They would have found a way.

I agree at that point they were all in and would of don’t everything Necessary