Complete lists of pre-1931 bosses of all NY families?

[johnny_scootch]

I should note WRT to the above that "Palermitani Family", "Corleonesi Family", and "Castellamarese Family" are just terms I came up with on the fly for this list based on the dominant hometowns of their leadership, and I'm not sure if they are widely used by others.

In fact they are, a la May 2014 Informer article ‘The Early New York Mafia: An Alternative Theory’

[Ivan]

I should note WRT to the above that "Palermitani Family", "Corleonesi Family", and "Castellamarese Family" are just terms I came up with on the fly for this list based on the dominant hometowns of their leadership, and I'm not sure if they are widely used by others.

In fact they are, a la May 2014 Informer article ‘The Early New York Mafia: An Alternative Theory’

Really? Cool. I read the article and don't remember that, but I bet that's where I got it, but then forgot that I got from there.

[B.]

Is there anything suggesting Mineo was still a boss between 1922 and 1928?

We have Magaddino saying Toto DiBella spoke up alongside Chicago and Cleveland bosses Merlo and Lonardo at an Assemblea meeting in Buffalo around 1922 which suggests DiBella was already a leader by then. He could have been representing Mineo but I also wonder if Mineo stepped down or was deposed around that time and DiBella was already boss. DiBella is confirmed by multiple sources as the boss before Profaci but we don't have any info on when he was first elected. Giuseppe Peraino looks to have been a leader and his sons were some of Tom DiBella's closest associates for decades, even helping him run the Family in the 1970s; Peraino could have been a capodecina or underboss under Salvatore DiBella. Mineo allegedly ordered the murder of Peraino's son Carmelo after Giuseppe himself was killed but by then Mineo was Gambino boss.

We have Attardi's account where "Mumbrao" (Mineo) is D'Aquila's underboss by 1928 who kills him and is then killed during the Castellammarese War. Attardi was made in Sicily and already a Gambino member by 1922 so he was a well-established member of that Family and his account can't be dismissed even though the name of Mineo was butchered (possibly by the journalist who interviewed him) and perhaps other details were off.

Mineo had been aligned with the Morello Family under Fortunato LoMonte in 1913 and was aligned with Morello and Masseria around 1928-1930 so I suspect he was aligned with Morello and Masseria during the early 1920s war given the patterns we see. His brother-in-law Grillo also looks to have protected / advocated for Ignazio Lupo during the conflict. One possibility is Mineo lost his title during/after the conflict, transferred to D'Aquila and was eventually his underboss before taking over the Family.

One hurdle is we have no members under Mineo who were identified in the 1910s. I'm certain it was the Colombo Family but we don't have much info on the older generation of Colombos who were active in NYC that early. With the other Families we can establish more continuity when looking at the members / associates but most if not all of our knowledge of the Colombo membership begins in the 1920s.

[Antiliar]

While I think it's likely that Mumbrao was Mineo, it can't be established with any certainty. We don't know if he meant someone else. After all, Manfredi Mineo went by Al according to Joe Valachi, but Mumbrao's first name was Salvatore.

Mineo, according to a source, ordered the killing of Carmelo Peraino in 1930, and the people ordered to do it were Sally the Sheik Mussachio, Tony Bonasera, and Johnny Bathbeach Oddo - all important Profaci/Colombo guys. This was while he was supposed to be running the former D'Aquila borgata and while DiBella or Profaci were bosses. It *seems* that Mineo was running two borgate at the same time. Perhaps DiBella was an acting boss or maybe he was forced to step down or demote? Whatever the case, Mineo was a mystery.

[Sullycantwell]

While I think it's likely that Mumbrao was Mineo, it can't be established with any certainty. We don't know if he meant someone else. After all, Manfredi Mineo went by Al according to Joe Valachi, but Mumbrao's first name was Salvatore.

Mineo, according to a source, ordered the killing of Carmelo Peraino in 1930, and the people ordered to do it were Sally the Sheik Mussachio, Tony Bonasera, and Johnny Bathbeach Oddo - all important Profaci/Colombo guys. This was while he was supposed to be running the former D'Aquila borgata and while DiBella or Profaci were bosses. It *seems* that Mineo was running two borgate at the same time. Perhaps DiBella was an acting boss or maybe he was forced to step down or demote? Whatever the case, Mineo was a mystery.

Could be similar to a Sebastiano DiGaetano Situation. Didn’t he briefly oversee Morello’s family or was it just because he was Capo Dei Capi he was involved? Do we know of any other examples where a boss appears or did control two families? We know D’Elia was asked to head Philly, but obv didn’t happen.

[B.]

Gentile refers to Masseria, Mineo, and Ferrigno (Fanuzzo = Stefanuzzo) as essentially a dictatorial triumvirate helping Masseria impose his will so it's not surprising he would continue to have influence over the Colombo Family while being Gambino boss at the time of the Peraino murder. We have Sal Profaci recorded in 1962 saying his father had been boss for 31 years, a 1970s Colombo member CI saying Toto DiBella had been boss pre-Profaci, then Bill Bonanno saying DiBella was boss at the same time Mineo was Gambino boss before the onset of the Castellammarese War. Joe Bonanno implies Profaci was already boss during the Castellammarese War. The most likely scenario is that Mineo still had defacto influence over that Family but the organizations remained formally distinct under DiBella and/or Profaci between 1928 and 1930.

Re: "Mumbrao", while no it isn't definitive there are notable phonetic similarities to "Mineo" and the description of him conspiring in D'Aquila's murder then being a victim of Maranzano during the Castellammarese War leaves no other known candidates. Use of the name Salvatore could have been straight error but "Al" certainly has phonetic similarities to "Sal" so that, in addition to other factors like simply misremembering his first name or the journalist's transcription of the conversation, could have led to that name being published. Either way, the point is that Mineo is the strongest candidate and Attardi was an established member of D'Aquila's Family who believed this person was underboss, suggesting Mineo had already lost his boss title, transferred membership, and was by then a ranking Gambino member. Unfortunately we don't have other sources, let alone of the same caliber, who can help clarify the situation further or counter that theory.

[Ivan]

Re: "Mumbrao", while no it isn't definitive there are notable phonetic similarities to "Mineo"

bilabial consonants at beginning of first and second syllables, identical terminal vowels

insertion of alveolar approximant is odd but otherwise close match

[Ivan]

So when I make the final version of this when I get a minute, should I add Guiseppe Esposito and Gaetano Russo as "possible" Palermitani Family bosses before Taranto? Or is that going to far?

[Antiliar]

While we agree that Mineo seems to be the most likely candidate, there are problematic issues not only with the name (which Attardi could have misremembered), but also the scenario of one boss becoming the underboss of the boss he went to war against. Why would a boss demote to take a high-ranking position in a rival borgata? While I can imagine a scenario where Mineo was on the losing end of the war and as a peace measure he agreed to demote and serve D'Aquila, why wouldn't D'Aquila just kill him? And wouldn't D'Aquila be putting himself at risk by doing that? So the scenario is fraught with problems. Yet, despite its problems it can't be ruled out since in real life people often make poor decisions.

Nevertheless Mineo, based on the very incomplete evidence that we have, seems to be the only one who fits. Still, because we lack a lot of relevant information we should keep an open mind to the possibility that Mumbrao could be someone else.

It should also be kept in mind that the journalist in question was no slouch. Jack Anderson was a Pulitzer Prize winner, the Washington bureau chief for Parade magazine, and one of the inventors of modern investigative journalism. While mistakes are possible, he had a reputation of being careful and following the evidence wherever it led.

[Antiliar]

So when I make the final version of this when I get a minute, should I add Guiseppe Esposito and Gaetano Russo as "possible" Palermitani Family bosses before Taranto? Or is that going to far?

I don't think either one were likely bosses in New York. Esposito is a possible early New Orleans boss, but I don't think Russo was ever a boss. If he was ever a boss I think it would have more likely to have been Chicago or some other Midwestern city. I primarily imagine him as a *possible* planter who helped set up borgate in different cities, but that's pure speculation on my part.

[PolackTony]

Re: "Mumbrao", while no it isn't definitive there are notable phonetic similarities to "Mineo"

bilabial consonants at beginning of first and second syllables, identical terminal vowels

insertion of alveolar approximant is odd but otherwise close match

Recall also that this was per the transcription from the journalist who interviewed Attardi for Parade Magazine in 1968, so who knows how faithful he was phonetically to what he thought he heard Attardi say. I’m not aware that Jack Anderson spoke Italian, for example.

[Ivan]

Re: "Mumbrao", while no it isn't definitive there are notable phonetic similarities to "Mineo"

bilabial consonants at beginning of first and second syllables, identical terminal vowels

insertion of alveolar approximant is odd but otherwise close match

Recall also that this was per the transcription from the journalist who interviewed Attardi for Parade Magazine in 1968, so who knows how faithful he was phonetically to what he thought he heard Attardi say. I’m not aware that Jack Anderson spoke Italian, for example.

Thanks Tony. Based on what Rick said (thanks Rick!) and this, I'm going to put down "Mumbrao" as a separate person with "name phonetic, possibly same person as Manfredi Mineo" because it looks like what we know makes him possibly one and the same but not probably. Available evidence does not push the same-person theory into the realm of probability in my estimation. Sorry not sorry.

"Mumbrao" of course is not a real Italian name and gets zero google hits other than an empty Facebook profile. (If you search for it, Google thinks you're misspelling "Mumbai.") This suggests that Anderson had little acquaintance with Italian phonology and names. "Mumbrao" makes it seem like his understanding of it was about on par with people who think Chinese sounds like "ching chong ching chong".

Agree that he does sound like a competent journalist, getting a Pulitzer back when that meant something (they now give it out for retarded shit like Russiagate).

[B.]

My mind is open so I'm not sure what the angle is here. We're all theorizing based on limited evidence. Mineo is the most likely candidate and there are no other known candidates who have a name that resembles Mumbrao, were linked to D'Aquila's murder, and were killed by Maranzano during the Castellammarese War. I favor the idea that it is him, that is all, but would be open to other candidates if they presented themselves.

The relationships between the Palermitani were complex, as evidenced by Mineo's Palermo-based brother-in-law Grillo being a strong ally of D'Aquila and Grillo also providing protection to Lupo in the 1920s when D'Aquila wanted to kill him. Who knows how Mineo presented himself on the surface at this time and how these other relationships and politics influenced what took place. Giuseppe Morello went from a former boss of one Family to an admin member of another Family around this time and many changes we're taking place.

A theory that Mineo stepped down or was deposed as boss and joined his rival's Family, with someone like Grillo influencing the arrangement, is not unrealistic. I'm reminded of Bruno and JB Indelicato joining Massino's decina after he helped kill Sonny Red, though that is an internal Family example. Either way if we are talking precedent, it is equally viable to the idea of a boss not only transferring membership but also his boss title in one swoop. It would make sense that he joined D'Aquila's Family and spent some time as a member then underboss before taking over the Family rather than the Colombo boss immediately swinging over to become Gambino boss without interruption.

[Ivan]

I favor the idea that it is him, that is all, but would be open to other candidates if they presented themselves.

It's fine, I won't hold this against you or anything.

Wasn't the first name of "Mumbrao" given as Salvatore? I remember back in like the 90s that Mineo was always called "Salvatore Mineo", with "Manfredi" being added later by researchers. (I don't recall ever seeing "Manfredi" before like 2010.) Actually "Al Mineo" was even more common than "Salvatore Mineo." (Did people really call him "Al"? Where'd that and the "Salvatore" version come from?)

[Antiliar]

I favor the idea that it is him, that is all, but would be open to other candidates if they presented themselves.

It's fine, I won't hold this against you or anything.

Wasn't the first name of "Mumbrao" given as Salvatore? I remember back in like the 90s that Mineo was always called "Salvatore Mineo", with "Manfredi" being added later by researchers. (I don't recall ever seeing "Manfredi" before like 2010.) Actually "Al Mineo" was even more common than "Salvatore Mineo." (Did people really call him "Al"? Where'd that and the "Salvatore" version come from?)

Salvatore Mumbrao comes from Attardi and Al Mineo from Valachi. Gentile, who was a friend of Attardi, called him Manfre.