Pogo The Clown wrote: ↑Tue Apr 03, 2018 9:56 am
Why did Masseria go to that restaurant where he was killed? You'd figure he would have remained underground in some safe house somehwere while the war was on. Especially afer Morello was killed and his own extremely close call where Mineo and Ferrigno bought it. He couldn't have been that dumb to go out in the open like that?
Pogo
He went to the restaurant because people whom he trusted betrayed him. If he wasn't misled he probably wouldn't have gone.
aleksandrored wrote: ↑Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:38 pm
guys in the USA had a "capo dei capi"? because in some places or documentary I always speak of Lucky Luciano, Carlo Gambino, John Gotti and even Meyer Lansky, I find this somewhat confusing because the only one who had this title (even for a short time) was Salvatore Maranzano.
Maranzano wasn't the only one with that title. Here are the ones we know of:
I know he was betrayed but you'd figure he would have smelled a trap a mile away when it was suggested they go to an empty restaurant out in the open in the middle of an all out war.
Pogo
It's a new morning in America... fresh, vital. The old cynicism is gone. We have faith in our leaders. We're optimistic as to what becomes of it all. It really boils down to our ability to accept. We don't need pessimism. There are no limits.
Pogo The Clown wrote: ↑Tue Apr 03, 2018 9:56 am
Why did Masseria go to that restaurant where he was killed? You'd figure he would have remained underground in some safe house somehwere while the war was on. Especially afer Morello was killed and his own extremely close call where Mineo and Ferrigno bought it. He couldn't have been that dumb to go out in the open like that?
Pogo
He went to the restaurant because people whom he trusted betrayed him. If he wasn't misled he probably wouldn't have gone.
aleksandrored wrote: ↑Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:38 pm
guys in the USA had a "capo dei capi"? because in some places or documentary I always speak of Lucky Luciano, Carlo Gambino, John Gotti and even Meyer Lansky, I find this somewhat confusing because the only one who had this title (even for a short time) was Salvatore Maranzano.
Maranzano wasn't the only one with that title. Here are the ones we know of:
I understood, thank you for responding, so it seems that today only exists in Sicilian Mafia this title, since since the time of the Riina became a mess structure, but it seems that Matteo Messina Denaro is the Capo dei capi.
I'm not even certain that it's an OFFICIAL title used in Sicily. Some reports that I've seen indicate that it's something that the media use but the Mafiosi themselves do not.
Pogo The Clown wrote: ↑Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:10 pm
I know he was betrayed but you'd figure he would have smelled a trap a mile away when it was suggested they go to an empty restaurant out in the open in the middle of an all out war.
Pogo
I'm not sure he believed the war was still going on, or at least not to the extent that it had been. The peace commission set up to mediate the dispute had successfully argued at a national assembly meeting to delay the decision on Masseria's fate, which pissed Maranzano off, but those in attendance (which included family leaders from across the country) were at least temporarily opposed to killing Masseria. Masseria had also supposedly ordered his men to put their arms down, both because he was seeking peace and because of pressure from LE. He must have believed he was relatively safe at that time, especially at a meeting with his allies.
Any info at all on 'Che Gusage'? All I've heard about him is from Valachi's testimony where he says Gusage was acting boss for a year before Costello (presumably after Genovese fled the country?)
'You don't go crucifying people outside a church; not on Good Friday.'
Chris Christie wrote: ↑Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:16 pm
Morello and Reina actually went into a business together in 1924 so it doesn't seem like there was bad blood on the surface.
A lot can happen in six years.
Indeed it can. Which is why it's worth mentioning that we don't know if Reina's murder in 1930 is in any way retribution for the 1921 debacle. I would argue the evidence points to no simply for the business Morello/Reina entered into together; that he wasn't murdered sooner after D'Aquila's Oct 28 murder; and that there was no attempt on the part of the Gen's reabsorb their former Bronx chapter.
There's always a level of plotting and treachery, perhaps more pronounced between the Gam/Gen in the 1920's but "the sitdown" is a sacred thing, real or imagined. It allowed for D'Aquila to have complete deniability for the LoMonte murder just 6 months after two of his own (presumable) top guys were murdered.
D'Aquila circa 1913 and 1923 may have been two different people in terms of how he handled matters. By all accounts when Morello and Lupo were released they were given a banquet attended by people all across NYC, doesn't seem like they had problems with D'Aquila until after Loiacano was murdered. We really don't know the full details as statements are ambiguous: "they tried to return to power," this means Morello was trying to retake his old position but which one, Boss of the Corleonesi or Boss of Bosses? We don't know. We could theorize either way: that Morello wanted to retake control over the group he founded (and who apparently had the support of the majority of their East Harlem and Lower Manhattan members) so he asked Loiacano to step down and when he refused he was killed. Or the more Machiavellian Shakespearian take would be Morello wanted both positions back and the first task was becoming head of a family again, which if anything happened to the current BOB he would be a candidate with seniority. Either way, D'Aquila didn't take too well to someone else making executive changes in another Family, which is somewhat dictatorial.
It's somewhat ironic that Loiacano was a Little Italy guy since the 1890's and following his murder, the only ones who opted not to follow his murderers were in the Bronx. Every other Gen in lower NY fell in with Morello/Masseria/Yale etc. That's why I dislike the Genovese described as a "new" Family when its foundations date back 25 years. The same could be said for the Luccheses, many of whom went to the Bronx for the same reason people began going to Brooklyn: improved financial status, ability to buy property and no longer pay the miserable rent that Itals so very much detested, this goes back to the 1900's. So the Luccheses didn't appear out of nowhere either. They maintained very close ties to their East Harlem roots and many are related. East Harlem was shared between them and up unto the 1970's the FBI was having a difficult time identifying who was with who, it wouldn't surprise me if there's more than a few so-called Gen or Lucchese members whose memberships were actually vice versa.
Is there anymore info on that banquet? Location? Attendees?
The location was the same restaurant Joe Masseria was killed in, and it lasted for three days. The newspapers reported on the gathering, just thinking it was a social club charitable event. We don't know who the attendees were except for what Joe Bonanno and Joe Valachi said.
chin_gigante wrote: ↑Fri Aug 17, 2018 7:59 pm
Any info at all on 'Che Gusage'? All I've heard about him is from Valachi's testimony where he says Gusage was acting boss for a year before Costello (presumably after Genovese fled the country?)
Bump on this, I've been seeing this name fairly often lately.
There was a "Guillamo Cecce" (ph) who was reportedly used as a high-level messenger between the Morello Family administration and Giuseppe Morello in prison when tensions were ramping up in the early 1920s conflict. Flynn claimed he took the message to Morello asking him to give up power and LoIacano was subsequently killed right after "Cecce" returned but as the May 2014 article says this can't be confirmed and Morello was out of prison long before LoIacano was killed.
The name "Guillamo Cecce" is phonetic much like "Che Gusae/Gusage" but there are phonetic similarities between them if you reverse the order, i.e. "Cecce Guillamo". The idea of a former Morello member involved in important affairs circa 1920 could fit an elder figure who briefly served as acting boss before dying in the 1930s but this is one of those guys people have been asking about as long as I've been on the boards and nobody has made any headway.
Another possible lead was posted on the Real Deal many years ago by I believe JD, which was a phonetic transcription from Valachi's testimony where "Che Gusae" was referred to as "Sheik". Tells us "Che" was pronounced "Chee" and that it's a hard G in "Gusae". You can see how the beginning of "Che Gusae" ("Cheeg") might sound like "Sheik". At the time I looked into whether Sheik Carillo had a father or other relatives involved but found nothing and we don't know whether "Sheik" or "Che Gusae" is the more accurate interpretation.
That's really fascinating it makes me wonder if organizationally he was a consigliere at some point due to being a high level messenger, as Angelo stated on pg.2 of this thread; "Perhaps the role of Consigliere changed, maybe it took less of a Boss' intermediary/senior/messenger to more of a Family member arbitrator". If true this quote makes sense as to why he'd be the acting boss. As we know the Genovese had/have those guys at the top that we can't knowingly differentiate. Che seems to be one of them considering we don't know about him or what his acting admin would looked like. Costello was possibly his consig or acting underboss along with the possibility of Terry Burnes (Domick Di Dato) or even Sam Pollacia, maybe that was his acting admin. Of course it begs the how question. If his appointment was likely after after Vito's fleeing to Italy and before Costello's appointment and Lucania is in Italy, who would've appointed him. Is it likely he was voted in by the family or family captains? I don't see it but I don't rule it out just cause It seems most bosses are sticklers for picking their successor. Wish we had more info on this guy haha, thanks though B and excellent job on the Mineo show I listen to it over and over.
Saverio Pollaccia was consigliere at the time of his ~1932 murder and had apparently held this role under Masseria but it isn't clear how long he had it. Bonanno's description of Morello sounds like a consigliere role so if he held it, Pollaccia only would have been consigliere since August 1930 at the earliest.
Then you have Bill Bonanno listing Frank Costello as consigliere which points to him taking it in 1932 when Pollaccia is killed.
Other than that, despite having a member CW active during this period who fully cooperated and broke down the contemporary hierarchy we're still looking to dot some of the i's and cross t's.
