1975 Active Members

[Adam]

I was thinking about this the other day when the Hoffa disappearance happened in 1975. An article talking about the separate families talking about it and emissaries being sent to give updates. Detroit talking to New York, Buffalino talking to people, emissaries from Detroit sent to St. Louis and Chicago. I think of it as maybe the last time that the LCN families were actually pretty connected at least in terms of communication. But I was thinking about the actual active made membership of the families at that time. There's a huge influx of members after that in 1975/1976/1977, so I wondered what the "active" membership might have been for the families across the country right before the large swath of initiation ceremonies started.

Detroit: 25-30?
Chicago: 60?
Cleveland: 10?
Milwaukee: 10?
St Louis: 10?
Kansas City: 15?
Los Angeles: 15-20?
San Jose: 8?
San Francisco: 3?
New Orleans: 5?
Philadephia: 40?
New England: 50?
Buffalo: 40?
Tampa: 10?
New Jersey: 50?
New York(this gets complicated). Couldn't really guess. Active made members in all honesty I'm thinking around 500-600.

So just something to think about. I really find it interesting where in the 1970s, a lot of the smaller families were clearly going away, but the structure nationally was still functioning. I mean, when you have New England reaching out to Lanza about the Barboza murder in advance(according to Fratianno) in 1976, there's still this overall network of communication.

[Little_Al1991]

Will we ever get to know the truth about the majority of the statuses of the family’s mentioned in that list today?

[motorfab]

For New Orleans, the membership of 5 is very debatable. I remember conversations with Angelo, B, Antiliar and myself where there was the team "I believe Scarpa" and the opposite team.

But I believe that Scarpa advanced the number of 5 in the mid-1960s, it seems to me very likely that Marcello inducted new members between this period and 1975.

[Adam]

Again, I'm not putting these numbers as some kind of angry debate. They're more what in my mind(after years of research) might be. But not too focused arguments. Just trying to think of what other people on this forum might think about ACTIVE membership in the families around that time.

[motorfab]

Again, I'm not putting these numbers as some kind of angry debate. They're more what in my mind(after years of research) might be. But not too focused arguments. Just trying to think of what other people on this forum might think about ACTIVE membership in the families around that time.

No prob don't worry. Coming back to New Orleans, considering that about 20 "suspected members" are listed in addition to the Marcello brothers, Frank Gagliano and Anthony Carollo in 1967, I think that between 10 & 15 members are still very active in 1975

[Adam]

Again, I'm not putting these numbers as some kind of angry debate. They're more what in my mind(after years of research) might be. But not too focused arguments. Just trying to think of what other people on this forum might think about ACTIVE membership in the families around that time.

No prob don't worry. Coming back to New Orleans, considering that about 20 "suspected members" are listed in addition to the Marcello brothers, Frank Gagliano and Anthony Carollo in 1967, I think that between 10 & 15 members are still very active in 1975

Thanks. New Orleans has been a total black spot in my research. As in I know nothing about it. New Orleans and Tampa are total blindspots for me. Which is odd in Florida because sooo many Detroit mobsters spend time there or moved there and I normally focus on Detroit.

[bn]

Colombos had about 76 identified members. Let's assume there were 80 total, including a few unidentified members. There were about 15-20 guys who I would consider inactive (old age or imprisoned). So there was probably about 60-65 active Colombo members (wouldn't be surprised if it was as low as 50).

[sdeitche]

I was thinking about this the other day when the Hoffa disappearance happened in 1975. An article talking about the separate families talking about it and emissaries being sent to give updates. Detroit talking to New York, Buffalino talking to people, emissaries from Detroit sent to St. Louis and Chicago. I think of it as maybe the last time that the LCN families were actually pretty connected at least in terms of communication. But I was thinking about the actual active made membership of the families at that time. There's a huge influx of members after that in 1975/1976/1977, so I wondered what the "active" membership might have been for the families across the country right before the large swath of initiation ceremonies started.

Detroit: 25-30?
Chicago: 60?
Cleveland: 10?
Milwaukee: 10?
St Louis: 10?
Kansas City: 15?
Los Angeles: 15-20?
San Jose: 8?
San Francisco: 3?
New Orleans: 5?
Philadephia: 40?
New England: 50?
Buffalo: 40?
Tampa: 10?
New Jersey: 50?
New York(this gets complicated). Couldn't really guess. Active made members in all honesty I'm thinking around 500-600.

So just something to think about. I really find it interesting where in the 1970s, a lot of the smaller families were clearly going away, but the structure nationally was still functioning. I mean, when you have New England reaching out to Lanza about the Barboza murder in advance(according to Fratianno) in 1976, there's still this overall network of communication.

Tampa still had a number of the 1963 list guys still around and active in 1975, so closer to 25+ made guys with the large bolita rings and associates still operating.

[Adam]

I was thinking about this the other day when the Hoffa disappearance happened in 1975. An article talking about the separate families talking about it and emissaries being sent to give updates. Detroit talking to New York, Buffalino talking to people, emissaries from Detroit sent to St. Louis and Chicago. I think of it as maybe the last time that the LCN families were actually pretty connected at least in terms of communication. But I was thinking about the actual active made membership of the families at that time. There's a huge influx of members after that in 1975/1976/1977, so I wondered what the "active" membership might have been for the families across the country right before the large swath of initiation ceremonies started.

Detroit: 25-30?
Chicago: 60?
Cleveland: 10?
Milwaukee: 10?
St Louis: 10?
Kansas City: 15?
Los Angeles: 15-20?
San Jose: 8?
San Francisco: 3?
New Orleans: 5?
Philadephia: 40?
New England: 50?
Buffalo: 40?
Tampa: 10?
New Jersey: 50?
New York(this gets complicated). Couldn't really guess. Active made members in all honesty I'm thinking around 500-600.

So just something to think about. I really find it interesting where in the 1970s, a lot of the smaller families were clearly going away, but the structure nationally was still functioning. I mean, when you have New England reaching out to Lanza about the Barboza murder in advance(according to Fratianno) in 1976, there's still this overall network of communication.

Tampa still had a number of the 1963 list guys still around and active in 1975, so closer to 25+ made guys with the large bolita rings and associates still operating.

Thanks Scott. I appreciate it. Again, the numbers I threw out there were just what I kind of pictured in my mind of active made guys in 1975. Clearly you would know about Tampa.

[cavita]

I was thinking about this the other day when the Hoffa disappearance happened in 1975. An article talking about the separate families talking about it and emissaries being sent to give updates. Detroit talking to New York, Buffalino talking to people, emissaries from Detroit sent to St. Louis and Chicago. I think of it as maybe the last time that the LCN families were actually pretty connected at least in terms of communication. But I was thinking about the actual active made membership of the families at that time. There's a huge influx of members after that in 1975/1976/1977, so I wondered what the "active" membership might have been for the families across the country right before the large swath of initiation ceremonies started.

Detroit: 25-30?
Chicago: 60?
Cleveland: 10?
Milwaukee: 10?
St Louis: 10?
Kansas City: 15?
Los Angeles: 15-20?
San Jose: 8?
San Francisco: 3?
New Orleans: 5?
Philadephia: 40?
New England: 50?
Buffalo: 40?
Tampa: 10?
New Jersey: 50?
New York(this gets complicated). Couldn't really guess. Active made members in all honesty I'm thinking around 500-600.

So just something to think about. I really find it interesting where in the 1970s, a lot of the smaller families were clearly going away, but the structure nationally was still functioning. I mean, when you have New England reaching out to Lanza about the Barboza murder in advance(according to Fratianno) in 1976, there's still this overall network of communication.

Rockford for sure had 11 known members but from 1968-1972 they made new members from the Sicilian immigrants their underboss sponsored per FBI files. They've historically had 20-25 members so perhaps around 1975 they were closer to 20 made members.

[Adam]

I was thinking about this the other day when the Hoffa disappearance happened in 1975. An article talking about the separate families talking about it and emissaries being sent to give updates. Detroit talking to New York, Buffalino talking to people, emissaries from Detroit sent to St. Louis and Chicago. I think of it as maybe the last time that the LCN families were actually pretty connected at least in terms of communication. But I was thinking about the actual active made membership of the families at that time. There's a huge influx of members after that in 1975/1976/1977, so I wondered what the "active" membership might have been for the families across the country right before the large swath of initiation ceremonies started.

Detroit: 25-30?
Chicago: 60?
Cleveland: 10?
Milwaukee: 10?
St Louis: 10?
Kansas City: 15?
Los Angeles: 15-20?
San Jose: 8?
San Francisco: 3?
New Orleans: 5?
Philadephia: 40?
New England: 50?
Buffalo: 40?
Tampa: 10?
New Jersey: 50?
New York(this gets complicated). Couldn't really guess. Active made members in all honesty I'm thinking around 500-600.

So just something to think about. I really find it interesting where in the 1970s, a lot of the smaller families were clearly going away, but the structure nationally was still functioning. I mean, when you have New England reaching out to Lanza about the Barboza murder in advance(according to Fratianno) in 1976, there's still this overall network of communication.

Rockford for sure had 11 known members but from 1968-1972 they made new members from the Sicilian immigrants their underboss sponsored per FBI files. They've historically had 20-25 members so perhaps around 1975 they were closer to 20 made members.

Thanks Cavita. Sorry I skipped over Rockford. I realize I skipped over a couple other places like Pittsburgh. Do you have a general idea of that 20 or so number you would consider active?

[JoePuzzles234]

For Los Angeles, 15-20 active members is a bit of a stretch, that’s closer to total family membership as a whole.

From Fratianno’s account of the situation, I think it’s more accurate to say that around 11 members were active in around 1975, though when Rizzitello and Ricciardi are made, they bring the total up a little.

Off the top of my head, it would look something like this:

Admin:
1. Boss: Dominic Brooklier (IP/UI)
2. Underboss: Sam “Santo Orlando” Sciortino (IP/UI)
3. Acting Underboss: Jimmy Fratianno

Captains:
1. Peter J. Milano (IP, late 1975)
2. Louis Dragna (promoted to acting admin with Fratianno)

- Joe Adamo in San Diego seems minimally active by this time, along with the majority of his decina.

Members:
1. Joe LiMandri (still meeting with Cleveland figures and Bompensiero)
2. Jack LoCicero (porno rackets, meetings in SF with Fratianno)
3. Frank Bompensiero (San Diego, promoted to consigliere)
4. James Iannone (meetings with Fratianno, Roselli and Chicago figures re. horse gambling)
5. Dominic Longo (meetings with admin, seemingly under Milano)
6. Sal Pinelli (active in San Diego, collects money with Bompensiero etc.)

Notable associates:
1. Michael Rizzitello (made 1976, captain by 1977)
2. Thomas Ricciardi (affiliated with LA by late 1975, made by 1978)
3. Frank Stellino (1974 bust with admin and Milano, poss. made)

Ironically the family is way more active a decade later, when Milano starts making members and promoting people again.

Colorado is not on the list but they were still around to some degree, though mostly just in Denver by 1975. They were about 5-6 members by this point:

Boss: Joe Spinuzzi (d. September 1975)
- Not entirely clear if Eugene Smaldone succeeds him immediately but he’s the boss by 1982

Underboss: Unknown
- Clarence Smaldone by 1982

Consigliere: Augustino Salardino (pretty much totally inactive)

Active members:
Clarence Smaldone (Denver captain, IP/UI on a gambling case)
Joe Salardino (described as “feeble” by Bompensiero in 1974, so probably limited in activity)
Eugene Smaldone (IP)
Paul Villano (IP/UI on a gambling case)
Thomas Incerto (IP, last somewhat active Pueblo member)

[PolackTony]

Is there a well-defined, shared definition of "active" vs. "inactive" membership? Are we applying the same standards to each Family? This has been an issue in previous discussions, where people seem to just assume that the meaning of this is self-evident and then wind up talking past each other. Who are the "active" members? Those who are not shelved? Those who are not incarcerated? Those who are currently involved in some capacity with specific criminal enterprises/racket operations? Those who still check in with their captain on a regular basis? Who defines "active" status? Us? LE? The membership themselves?

Leaving these questions aside, just in terms of membership, in 1973 the FBI published a list of Chicago's "Current LCN membership", numbering 158. This figure is almost certainly inflated, as the FBI listed guys like Frank Calabrese and Rocky Infelise, who we now know weren't actually made until 10 years later (it also has Frattiano as a Chicago member, though by this time the FBI had already been told by Bompensiero that Fratianno's transfer to Chicago never officially counted, as it wasn't recognized by the LA admin). Further, at least half of these were identified by only 1 source, the majority of these cases having been identified in 1967 by Lou Fratto shortly before his death from cancer (and Lou Fratto's membership status is itself unclear, apart from the fact that he was living in Iowa for decades by that time and described by other informants as basically a washed-up nobody). We might be tempted to then only include those who were identified by more than one source as made, but Calabrese was falsely identified by three sources (at least according to the list; me, I'd like to know what was actually said verbatim between the interviewing agent and the source). Further, there were also guys who were made, like Tony El Dorado and Sam DiGiovanni, and yet were only identified by one source on this list. Additionally, there were almost certainly a number of "sleeper" members not identified on the list, given that known members such as Sam Carlisi, Al Tornabene, and Phil Ponto (at the time a senior executive at the Stardust in Vegas) were not listed. The only member sources that we have on the actual range of membership numbers were not Chicago members and came from the 1960s. Augie Maniaci apparently believed that Chicago had as many as 400 made guys (no idea why he thought that, apart from perhaps just throwing a number out based on Chicago being a much bigger city with many more Italians than Milwaukee and its LCN Family being larger and much more powerful). In a 1962 bugged conversation with Swatt Mulligan Ciaffone, Louie LaRasso, and some unknown guys, Gyp De Carlo stated, with respect to Chicago, that "the whole mob I think is about 50" (worth noting that LaRasso was apparently in agreement and may have been a liaison between the DeCavs and Chicago, as he spent time in Chicago and was very close to longtime Chicago member Phil Bacino, his compaesan' from Ribera). In 1965, Greg Scarpa reported to the FBI about a Colombo meeting he attended chaired by Joe Colombo where Chicago's membership came up, and Colombo had stated that the membership was close to 50 men (the report stated that Scarpa reported that Chicago "has very few members, possibly only 40 - 50"); this was relevant because at the meeting Colombo was arguing that given his Family's small size (relative to the other NYC Families, obviously), Chicago was an example that he wanted to emulate and refrain from inducting new members (both De Carlo and Colombo thought that Chicago's smaller membership was desirable and wished that their own Families would induct fewer members).

We don't know of any Chicago ceremonies between 1956, when a large ceremony was held around the time that Giancana was made boss, and 1976, when sources tell us Chicago held a ceremony where a number of new members were inducted (with CI Vic Arrigo stating that he was told by member Joey Di Varco that Chicago's "books" were being reponed after having been "closed for many years"); we do, however, have good reason to believe that at least several members were brought in during this period, though it's possible that this was done on an ad hoc basis to replace deceased members. The next Chicago membership list that I am aware of was published by the FBI in 1985, which has almost 50 men listed (though this list was also problematic, as it did not list several guys that we later found out were made by that time, including Sam Carlisi, who within a year would be boss of the Family).

[Adam]

Is there a well-defined, shared definition of "active" vs. "inactive" membership? Are we applying the same standards to each Family? This has been an issue in previous discussions, where people seem to just assume that the meaning of this is self-evident and then wind up talking past each other. Who are the "active" members? Those who are not shelved? Those who are not incarcerated? Those who are currently involved in some capacity with specific criminal enterprises/racket operations? Those who still check in with their captain on a regular basis? Who defines "active" status? Us? LE? The membership themselves?

Leaving these questions aside, just in terms of membership, in 1973 the FBI published a list of Chicago's "Current LCN membership", numbering 158. This figure is almost certainly inflated, as the FBI listed guys like Frank Calabrese and Rocky Infelise, who we now know weren't actually made until 10 years later (it also has Frattiano as a Chicago member, though by this time the FBI had already been told by Bompensiero that Fratianno's transfer to Chicago never officially counted, as it wasn't recognized by the LA admin). Further, at least half of these were identified by only 1 source, the majority of these cases having been identified in 1967 by Lou Fratto shortly before his death from cancer (and Lou Fratto's membership status is itself unclear, apart from the fact that he was living in Iowa for decades by that time and described by other informants as basically a washed-up nobody). We might be tempted to then only include those who were identified by more than one source as made, but Calabrese was falsely identified by three sources (at least according to the list; me, I'd like to know what was actually said verbatim between the interviewing agent and the source). Further, there were also guys who were made, like Tony El Dorado and Sam DiGiovanni, and yet were only identified by one source on this list. Additionally, there were almost certainly a number of "sleeper" members not identified on the list, given that known members such as Sam Carlisi, Al Tornabene, and Phil Ponto (at the time a senior executive at the Stardust in Vegas) were not listed. The only member sources that we have on the actual range of membership numbers were not Chicago members and came from the 1960s. Augie Maniaci apparently believed that Chicago had as many as 400 made guys (no idea why he thought that, apart from perhaps just throwing a number out based on Chicago being a much bigger city with many more Italians than Milwaukee and its LCN Family being larger and much more powerful). In a 1962 bugged conversation with Swatt Mulligan Ciaffone, Louie LaRasso, and some unknown guys, Gyp De Carlo stated, with respect to Chicago, that "the whole mob I think is about 50" (worth noting that LaRasso was apparently in agreement and may have been a liaison between the DeCavs and Chicago, as he spent time in Chicago and was very close to longtime Chicago member Phil Bacino, his compaesan' from Ribera). In 1965, Greg Scarpa reported to the FBI about a Colombo meeting he attended chaired by Joe Colombo where Chicago's membership came up, and Colombo had stated that the membership was close to 50 men (the report stated that Scarpa reported that Chicago "has very few members, possibly only 40 - 50"); this was relevant because at the meeting Colombo was arguing that given his Family's small size (relative to the other NYC Families, obviously), Chicago was an example that he wanted to emulate and refrain from inducting new members (both De Carlo and Colombo thought that Chicago's smaller membership was desirable and wished that their own Families would induct fewer members).

We don't know of any Chicago ceremonies between 1956, when a large ceremony was held around the time that Giancana was made boss, and 1976, when sources tell us Chicago held a ceremony where a number of new members were inducted (with CI Vic Arrigo stating that he was told by member Joey Di Varco that Chicago's "books" were being reponed after having been "closed for many years"); we do, however, have good reason to believe that at least several members were brought in during this period, though it's possible that this was done on an ad hoc basis to replace deceased members. The next Chicago membership list that I am aware of was published by the FBI in 1985, which has almost 50 men listed (though this list was also problematic, as it did not list several guys that we later found out were made by that time, including Sam Carlisi, who within a year would be boss of the Family).

Thanks Tony. I appreciate all that information. And you're absolutely right that this "active" thing has gone back and forth. I can say kind of what I was thinking. In 1979 in Cleveland there's a making ceremony for Joe Gallo and Tommy Sinito and James Licavoli and Angelo Lonardo are doing the ceremony but retired member Charles Cesara(I'm really bad on his name, in Mob Nemesis it's Casara but I know that's wrong) also attends. So I'm trying to think of the active family that doesn't include those random retired guys who pop up but are more like social members at that point. Like Tony Milano, and all the guys he hangs out with on Muray Hill, who are retired but made, but are still celebrating when Danny Greene and Nardi are killed. So I'm thinking of dropping those guys and who is actually involved in the family. I realize it's still vague but that was my goal.

[Adam]

For Los Angeles, 15-20 active members is a bit of a stretch, that’s closer to total family membership as a whole.

From Fratianno’s account of the situation, I think it’s more accurate to say that around 11 members were active in around 1975, though when Rizzitello and Ricciardi are made, they bring the total up a little.

Off the top of my head, it would look something like this:

Admin:
1. Boss: Dominic Brooklier (IP/UI)
2. Underboss: Sam “Santo Orlando” Sciortino (IP/UI)
3. Acting Underboss: Jimmy Fratianno

Captains:
1. Peter J. Milano (IP, late 1975)
2. Louis Dragna (promoted to acting admin with Fratianno)

- Joe Adamo in San Diego seems minimally active by this time, along with the majority of his decina.

Members:
1. Joe LiMandri (still meeting with Cleveland figures and Bompensiero)
2. Jack LoCicero (porno rackets, meetings in SF with Fratianno)
3. Frank Bompensiero (San Diego, promoted to consigliere)
4. James Iannone (meetings with Fratianno, Roselli and Chicago figures re. horse gambling)
5. Dominic Longo (meetings with admin, seemingly under Milano)
6. Sal Pinelli (active in San Diego, collects money with Bompensiero etc.)

Notable associates:
1. Michael Rizzitello (made 1976, captain by 1977)
2. Thomas Ricciardi (affiliated with LA by late 1975, made by 1978)
3. Frank Stellino (1974 bust with admin and Milano, poss. made)

Ironically the family is way more active a decade later, when Milano starts making members and promoting people again.

Colorado is not on the list but they were still around to some degree, though mostly just in Denver by 1975. They were about 5-6 members by this point:

Boss: Joe Spinuzzi (d. September 1975)
- Not entirely clear if Eugene Smaldone succeeds him immediately but he’s the boss by 1982

Underboss: Unknown
- Clarence Smaldone by 1982

Consigliere: Augustino Salardino (pretty much totally inactive)

Active members:
Clarence Smaldone (Denver captain, IP/UI on a gambling case)
Joe Salardino (described as “feeble” by Bompensiero in 1974, so probably limited in activity)
Eugene Smaldone (IP)
Paul Villano (IP/UI on a gambling case)
Thomas Incerto (IP, last somewhat active Pueblo member)

Thanks Joe. That's a really good break down on LA. Really close to what I thought. I would add Tommy Palermo and maybe Polizzi. But a good list.