Actual made guys in Youngstown/Mahoning Valley

[Ivan]

Thanks guys.

This shit is too fucking complicated and thinking about it gives me a headache.

[DoubleZ]

Something to keep in mind is Cleveland's books were closed between 1931 and the late 1940s, then again from 1949 to the 1970s. It was extremely difficult to get made in Cleveland, though to be fair what we know of Detroit and Pittsburgh is they also went long lengths of time without making anyone and that's true for most US Families.

We know Detroit's books were adding names left and right in the 1940's-early 1960's with the the son's, nephews, cousins, son/brother-in-laws of the extended Zerilli, Tocco, Corrado etc families. The vast majority of 2nd generation LCN leadership being made during this time. Jack and Anthony Tocco, Tony Zerilli, Tony Corrado, Mike Polizzi, Tony and Vito Giacalone as examples.

To me it sounds like a potential strategic move on the Detroit guys side. Have a point man in a city with a somewhat "underserved" LCN presence. Just a theory though.

[B.]

Because it looks like members of the DiCarlo faction may have transferred to Cleveland and Detroit, possibly even the Colombos, I think this was strategic. By bringing them into different Families it would give them an added layer of protection and more representation. There are indications Magaddino wanted to kill at least DiCarlo and his loyalists like Tronolone and Joe Pieri could have been collateral damage if not targets themselves. Bringing them into multiple Families changes the political situation significantly.

With guys like Licavoli and Moceri transferring to Cleveland, I think it was mutually beneficial to both Detroit and Cleveland. Cleveland needed formidable mafiosi in their ranks and Detroit now had their people in the Cleveland Family.

[PolackTony]

Along with Chicago, Romano also fled to Sharon PA after the attempt on his life where he linked up with "members" of the "Marino organization". This was a reference to Salvatore Marino who left Sharon for San Jose many years earlier but it makes me wonder if there were other Pittsburgh members in and around Sharon or if the informant was just referring to old associates of Marino. Both JCB and I believe Salvatore Marino was likely a Pittsburgh captain before transferring to San Jose and becoming a captain there -- along with marrying into the Maggios of Philly (a cheese marriage), the Marinos were closely connected to Milwaukee, NYC, Buffalo, and the Sicilian mafia but there isn't a lot of inside info on Sal before San Jose. Through his cheese companies his ties went far beyond those examples too.

Marino is also an interesting figure. Santa Flavia and Altavilla are both basically satellite comuni of Bagheria, so I would imagine they thought of each other as paesani. Not an area that we otherwise see popping up with the mafia in that part of the US (meaning OH and W PA), at least so far as I’m aware, so it would be interesting to know if there were some others around that still haven’t made it on our radar. Possible that they had older associations with the more numerous Termitani and Caccamesi too. As you noted, Gentile put Pitt’s membership around 70 and there remain many gaps in our knowledge.

[FriendofHenry]

Thanks guys.

This shit is too fucking complicated and thinking about it gives me a headache.

Youngstown is my hometown and I lived through most of the fighting between Cleveland and Pittsburgh.
I was friendly with most of the Pittsburgh "People" from John LaRocca to Michael Genovese.
This ancient Youngstown history is too complicated and giving me a headache too

[Ivan]

Thanks guys.

This shit is too fucking complicated and thinking about it gives me a headache.

Youngstown is my hometown and I lived through most of the fighting between Cleveland and Pittsburgh.
I was friendly with most of the Pittsburgh "People" from John LaRocca to Michael Genovese.
This ancient Youngstown history is too complicated and giving me a headache too

I'm genuinely in awe of these guys and their ability to figure this stuff out (grateful too!).

I bet what you're experiencing is true of a lot of actual mobsters -- like if you went up to a present day Gambino made guy and starting asking him about Palermitani dominance of the family before Albert Anastasia or whatever I'm guessing he almost certainly would have no idea what the fuck you are talking about.

[B.]

I bet what you're experiencing is true of a lot of actual mobsters -- like if you went up to a present day Gambino made guy and starting asking him about Palermitani dominance of the family before Albert Anastasia or whatever I'm guessing he almost certainly would have no idea what the fuck you are talking about.

Unless he's Michael DiLeonardo.

That's the interesting thing about Youngstown though... you had multiple Families operating there and the non-made informants knew who was made but they just grouped everyone as "Sicilian" or "Calabrian" faction based on who was close and shared ethnicity. The guys from different Families got along overall and weren't "rivals" but members of the same brotherhood so on the street level these associates couldn't tell who was with which Family. Similar to what you see in certain neighborhoods of NYC where a group of members might spend all their time with each other, are business partners, etc. but were with different Families.

[Ivan]

I bet what you're experiencing is true of a lot of actual mobsters -- like if you went up to a present day Gambino made guy and starting asking him about Palermitani dominance of the family before Albert Anastasia or whatever I'm guessing he almost certainly would have no idea what the fuck you are talking about.

Unless he's Michael DiLeonardo.

That's the interesting thing about Youngstown though... you had multiple Families operating there and the non-made informants knew who was made but they just grouped everyone as "Sicilian" or "Calabrian" faction based on who was close and shared ethnicity. The guys from different Families got along overall and weren't "rivals" but members of the same brotherhood so on the street level these associates couldn't tell who was with which Family. Similar to what you see in certain neighborhoods of NYC where a group of members might spend all their time with each other, are business partners, etc. but were with different Families.

Oh I imagine it would be more than just DiLeonardo... I bet guys like Cefalu are probably pretty knowledgeable about that sort of thing. But the majority? I doubt it.

Youngstown is such a weird case. Total free-for-all until Cleveland started having problems in the late 70s and Prato-Naples made their move. After that it was basically a Pittsburgh territory, though apparently tribute went to Cleveland through Tronolone and maybe even Liberatore being acting boss incredibly enough.

People tend to underestimate how big it is because they just look at the ever-shrinking population of the city of Youngstown itself, but in reality the Valley is dozens upon dozens of cities, towns, townships, and villages, and most them border each other -- i.e., there's no space between them, no break in the urban area. It's really just one big town of several hundred thousand (320K in the contiguous urbanized area per Wikipedia), divided into a zillion municipalities. Throw in how popular vice was there and the actual money to be made from rackets is probably the same amount as in a bigger city like Cleveland.

When I hear about the good old days of Youngstown I feel almost jealous. Las Vegas in Ohio, basically. Everyone had a nice job if they were willing to work hard, everyone had money. All right the mob blew up a 12 year old boy, but other than that, what's not to like?

[FriendofHenry]

What's not to like, the Steel Mills shut down and and put an end to "everyone had money"

[Ivan]

What's not to like, the Steel Mills shut down and and put an end to "everyone had money"

I was talking about before that. Whenever I see pictures of Youngstown from the fifties and sixties, they make me think "I was born too late."

[PolackTony]

Along with Chicago, Romano also fled to Sharon PA after the attempt on his life where he linked up with "members" of the "Marino organization". This was a reference to Salvatore Marino who left Sharon for San Jose many years earlier but it makes me wonder if there were other Pittsburgh members in and around Sharon or if the informant was just referring to old associates of Marino. Both JCB and I believe Salvatore Marino was likely a Pittsburgh captain before transferring to San Jose and becoming a captain there -- along with marrying into the Maggios of Philly (a cheese marriage), the Marinos were closely connected to Milwaukee, NYC, Buffalo, and the Sicilian mafia but there isn't a lot of inside info on Sal before San Jose. Through his cheese companies his ties went far beyond those examples too.

Marino is also an interesting figure. Santa Flavia and Altavilla are both basically satellite comuni of Bagheria, so I would imagine they thought of each other as paesani. Not an area that we otherwise see popping up with the mafia in that part of the US (meaning OH and W PA), at least so far as I’m aware, so it would be interesting to know if there were some others around that still haven’t made it on our radar. Possible that they had older associations with the more numerous Termitani and Caccamesi too. As you noted, Gentile put Pitt’s membership around 70 and there remain many gaps in our knowledge.

I have Salvatore Marino's brother as Nicola Marino, who immigrated to Milwaukee from Santa Flavia and married Maria Messina, who seems to have been from Altavilla also (her obituary stated that she was a member of the Maria S.S. Lauretana Society, which, as I stated previously, is an Altavillisi paesani society in Chicago that included many Romanos over the years). Given that there were comparatively few Altavillisi in Wisconsin, I suspect that she was a relative of the Giovanni Messina, aka "Johnny Masina", of Altavilla who was apparently running things in Racine along with his paesan' Angelo Lamantia until Messina was killed in 1931 at the restaurant of Domenico Zizzo of Santa Flavia (it was alleged that the intended target was LaMantia, who had fled to Racine after killing Frank Aiello in Milwaukee). Laura Marino, who I have as the daughter of Nicola Marino and Maria Messina, married later Milwaukee boss Salvatore Ferraro in 1929.

Per what was reported in the papers and also discussed in Gavin Schmitt's book, after leaving Chicago in 1928, Angelo LaMantia spent time in Youngstown briefly in 1929, where he operated a store with an Antonio Sammarco. He went to Milwaukee around 1930, fled to Racine after the Frank Aiello killing in 1931, and then fled to Youngstown again following the murder of Messina and the attendant heat this brought down from LE on the bootlegging ring in Racine that LaMantia and Messina were running in collaboration with Paul Giovingo in Rockford. It is unclear how long exactly LaMantia remained in Youngstown (he subsequently moved to Philly and was apprehended in 1940 in Camden), but it was stated that while he was there he had his "cousin" Joe Romano join him. As I noted before, LaMantia's mother was also a Romano and the earliest I could place Romano, who had lived in Chicago previously, in Youngstown was 1940, so this narrative lines up. Thus, Joe Romano was in Youngstown for years while Salvatore Marino was still in Sharon, and the two men were linked via the apparent connection of LaMantia, and presumably Romano, who was probably working in Racine with LaMantia and Messina, to Marino's brother's in-laws.

[PolackTony]

- Others identified as made in Youngstown were Albert Antonelli, Joseph Bardinello, Nick Barone, William Lantini, Calogero Malfitano. Not sure their affiliation but it looks like Malfitano was Cleveland and the others could be Pittsburgh.

Calogero Malfitano was born in 1889 in Licata, so his affiliation with Cleveland seems pretty likely. I'm not sure exactly when he arrived in Youngstown, but he was there by around 1940 at the latest, as his WW2 draft card has him living in Youngstown and operating a wine store there. The FBI was told that around the time that Romano fled to Chicago, Malfitano fled to Sicily. His 1967 death was reported by the US consulate in Italy.

[PolackTony]

Along with Chicago, Romano also fled to Sharon PA after the attempt on his life where he linked up with "members" of the "Marino organization". This was a reference to Salvatore Marino who left Sharon for San Jose many years earlier but it makes me wonder if there were other Pittsburgh members in and around Sharon or if the informant was just referring to old associates of Marino. Both JCB and I believe Salvatore Marino was likely a Pittsburgh captain before transferring to San Jose and becoming a captain there -- along with marrying into the Maggios of Philly (a cheese marriage), the Marinos were closely connected to Milwaukee, NYC, Buffalo, and the Sicilian mafia but there isn't a lot of inside info on Sal before San Jose. Through his cheese companies his ties went far beyond those examples too.

Marino is also an interesting figure. Santa Flavia and Altavilla are both basically satellite comuni of Bagheria, so I would imagine they thought of each other as paesani. Not an area that we otherwise see popping up with the mafia in that part of the US (meaning OH and W PA), at least so far as I’m aware, so it would be interesting to know if there were some others around that still haven’t made it on our radar. Possible that they had older associations with the more numerous Termitani and Caccamesi too. As you noted, Gentile put Pitt’s membership around 70 and there remain many gaps in our knowledge.

I have Salvatore Marino's brother as Nicola Marino, who immigrated to Milwaukee from Santa Flavia and married Maria Messina, who seems to have been from Altavilla also (her obituary stated that she was a member of the Maria S.S. Lauretana Society, which, as I stated previously, is an Altavillisi paesani society in Chicago that included many Romanos over the years). Given that there were comparatively few Altavillisi in Wisconsin, I suspect that she was a relative of the Giovanni Messina, aka "Johnny Masina", of Altavilla who was apparently running things in Racine along with his paesan' Angelo Lamantia until Messina was killed in 1931 at the restaurant of Domenico Zizzo of Santa Flavia (it was alleged that the intended target was LaMantia, who had fled to Racine after killing Frank Aiello in Milwaukee). Laura Marino, who I have as the daughter of Nicola Marino and Maria Messina, married later Milwaukee boss Salvatore Ferraro in 1929.

Per what was reported in the papers and also discussed in Gavin Schmitt's book, after leaving Chicago in 1928, Angelo LaMantia spent time in Youngstown briefly in 1929, where he operated a store with an Antonio Sammarco. He went to Milwaukee around 1930, fled to Racine after the Frank Aiello killing in 1931, and then fled to Youngstown again following the murder of Messina and the attendant heat this brought down from LE on the bootlegging ring in Racine that LaMantia and Messina were running in collaboration with Paul Giovingo in Rockford. It is unclear how long exactly LaMantia remained in Youngstown (he subsequently moved to Philly and was apprehended in 1940 in Camden), but it was stated that while he was there he had his "cousin" Joe Romano join him. As I noted before, LaMantia's mother was also a Romano and the earliest I could place Romano, who had lived in Chicago previously, in Youngstown was 1940, so this narrative lines up. Thus, Joe Romano was in Youngstown for years while Salvatore Marino was still in Sharon, and the two men were linked via the apparent connection of LaMantia, and presumably Romano, who was probably working in Racine with LaMantia and Messina, to Marino's brother's in-laws.

Looks like the Nicola Marino in Milwaukee was Salvatore Marino’s cousin and not brother, but the familial connection still likely explains the connection to Romano.

[DoubleZ]

With guys like Licavoli and Moceri transferring to Cleveland, I think it was mutually beneficial to both Detroit and Cleveland. Cleveland needed formidable mafiosi in their ranks and Detroit now had their people in the Cleveland Family.

Agreed B. An underworld Joint-Venture of sorts.

[B.]

People tend to underestimate how big it is because they just look at the ever-shrinking population of the city of Youngstown itself, but in reality the Valley is dozens upon dozens of cities, towns, townships, and villages, and most them border each other -- i.e., there's no space between them, no break in the urban area. It's really just one big town of several hundred thousand (320K in the contiguous urbanized area per Wikipedia), divided into a zillion municipalities. Throw in how popular vice was there and the actual money to be made from rackets is probably the same amount as in a bigger city like Cleveland.

When I hear about the good old days of Youngstown I feel almost jealous. Las Vegas in Ohio, basically. Everyone had a nice job if they were willing to work hard, everyone had money. All right the mob blew up a 12 year old boy, but other than that, what's not to like?

My Mom spent her last year of high school in the Youngstown area 1965-1966. I want to say she actually lived in Warren. Outside of this stuff, I don't know much about the area. That comedian Tony Hinchcliffe is from Youngstown and said his biological father was mobbed up and owned a popular Youngstown Italian restaurant.