Gangland May 25th 2023

[B.]

Pennisi said when Cammarano took control he met with the Lucchese leadership and passed a list of the Spirito members after the fact to settle the issue. Sounds like they were able to get recognized.

Until we get definitive info on who was made by Spirito Jr. I'm not confident it was as bad as Pennisi made it sound. Saying he made twenty of his friends makes it sound like he brought in an army of Brendan Filones. Twenty could be an exaggeration and "friend" could mean anything. I at least take it to mean the Bronx faction was bringing in a bunch of their own guys and left the Luccheses out of the process. The Luccheses didn't recognize Mancuso as boss so it may have been in vain to pass a list anyway.

Who was it that allegedly shelved Spirito Jr.? Cammarano? Be surprising if Spirito Jr. made new members without his father and Mancuso's approval. He was authorized by them to be part of the acting leadership.

[CabriniGreen]

Spirito has to have serious respect.

His kid, made, decided to make 20 of his friends. Was benched. But now back in the fray, eg Grimaldi incident.

Pennisi was formally introduced also.

All due to his father's pull.

Has to speak loudly about Snr.

Agreed. Its the fact that they even went along with it at all.

Look at how Mancuso reacted to Cicale, a made guy and Capo, giving him orders, FROM the Boss, Basciano. Its wasnt that he didnt respect LCN, or the Bonnanos, or Basciano, He had no respect for CICALE personally.

Yet they went along with Spiritos kid making moves, until they checked with him, Spirito Sr., I'm guessing? How exactly did the actions to "recind" this kids orders come about?


Someone said they weren't real ceremonies. Is that actually correct? Because I thought Cammaranno provided the names as a olive branch to mend fences with the Luchesse borgata.

And if they did get made... HOW? Like.......what exactly is the protocol? Like, I know they cheat on the list, but DO YOU HAVE to present these names FIRST, before they get straightened out? Or is it like.... in practice, in reality.... this is done retroactively a lot of the time? Or is it more of a formality really? But that can't be right, it would become too easy circumvent the rules, the membership would swell, no?

Like, he goes to see his father, who's what? A soldier? And comes back and makes himself acting underboss? Based off a visitation with his Dad? So what the fuck is his Dad's actual strength in the family? ( Now, I understand... it's that REGIME that really has control..)


The BrainTrust ( thats my pet name for you researchers, lol... maybe the Think Tank is better...) would call it an Operational issue. But to me it's Organizational precisely because the Organization has to go along with it, they gotta recognize it.

And it took Cammaranno's diplomacy to fix it. It was an Organizational matter that became a catalyst for a political solution. The politics are always Organizational.

[CabriniGreen]

Pennisi said when Cammarano took control he met with the Lucchese leadership and passed a list of the Spirito members after the fact to settle the issue. Sounds like they were able to get recognized.

Until we get definitive info on who was made by Spirito Jr. I'm not confident it was as bad as Pennisi made it sound. Saying he made twenty of his friends makes it sound like he brought in an army of Brendan Filones. Twenty could be an exaggeration and "friend" could mean anything. I at least take it to mean the Bronx faction was bringing in a bunch of their own guys and left the Luccheses out of the process. The Luccheses didn't recognize Mancuso as boss so it may have been in vain to pass a list anyway.

Who was it that allegedly shelved Spirito Jr.? Cammarano? Be surprising if Spirito Jr. made new members without his father and Mancuso's approval. He was authorized by them to be part of the acting leadership.

Lmao... Damn you... you beat me to the punch..

[JohnnyS]

Pennisi said when Cammarano took control he met with the Lucchese leadership and passed a list of the Spirito members after the fact to settle the issue. Sounds like they were able to get recognized.

Until we get definitive info on who was made by Spirito Jr. I'm not confident it was as bad as Pennisi made it sound. Saying he made twenty of his friends makes it sound like he brought in an army of Brendan Filones. Twenty could be an exaggeration and "friend" could mean anything. I at least take it to mean the Bronx faction was bringing in a bunch of their own guys and left the Luccheses out of the process. The Luccheses didn't recognize Mancuso as boss so it may have been in vain to pass a list anyway.

Who was it that allegedly shelved Spirito Jr.? Cammarano? Be surprising if Spirito Jr. made new members without his father and Mancuso's approval. He was authorized by them to be part of the acting leadership.

Cammarano shelved him for bringing fake messages to and from Mancuso. Pennisi said that before he was shelved Cammarano brought him to a meeting with the Luccheses and reintroduced him to everyone there as a soldier.

No surprise that when the brawl happened at Vito Grimaldi's wake, Johnny Joe jr was the one that punched Cammarano first. A lot of bad blood there.

[johnny_scootch]

No surprise that when the brawl happened at Vito Grimaldi's wake, Johnny Joe jr was the one that punched Cammarano first. A lot of bad blood there.

Details like who hit who first are known? I’ve been away a while when and where did we learn that?

[JohnnyS]

No surprise that when the brawl happened at Vito Grimaldi's wake, Johnny Joe jr was the one that punched Cammarano first. A lot of bad blood there.

Details like who hit who first are known? I’ve been away a while when and where did we learn that?

It was in the GL article.

Sources say that when Joe C approached the casket where Grimaldi was laid out on Tuesday July 19, Spirito Jr., backed up by a handful of mobsters, "punched him in the mouth and knocked him down," and began to pummel him when bikers wearing suits who accompanied Joe C into the wake immediately came to his aid when the fisticuffs began and pulled Spirito off him.

[chin_gigante]

Cammarano shelved him for bringing fake messages to and from Mancuso. Pennisi said that before he was shelved Cammarano brought him to a meeting with the Luccheses and reintroduced him to everyone there as a soldier.

That introduction happened later. Cammarano shelved Spirito Jr because of the fake messages he was bringing from prison, then at some point he took him off the shelf and reintroduced him to the new Lucchese administration. Pennisi heard this was done because Spirito Sr had been in prison with Amuso and was able to settle his son's problems with the Lucchese family. This occured around mid-2017, when DeSantis was the Lucchese acting boss and Andrew DiSimone had been made acting consigliere.

[B.]

Like, he goes to see his father, who's what? A soldier? And comes back and makes himself acting underboss? Based off a visitation with his Dad? So what the fuck is his Dad's actual strength in the family? ( Now, I understand... it's that REGIME that really has control..)

Johnny or Chin can correct me, but I believe Capeci identified Spirito Sr. as a captain while he was in prison. Like Mancuso becoming boss after he went away, it looks like Spirito Sr. became a captain in prison then became underboss when he was released.

It does seem like Spirito Jr. was authorized to help run the Family while Mancuso and his father were in prison and there's the reference to him standing in as acting consigliere for an induction ceremony (maybe for symbolic reasons). I'd like to get more info on exactly what fake messages Spirito Jr. was accused of passing to the street -- was he actually making shit up or did the Cammarano faction simply disapprove of the moves he was making and make up an excuse to take his power away?

[aray22]

I feel like this video is relevant about Joe Russo
https://youtu.be/Sbm-aefx1vw

[JohnnyS]

Cammarano shelved him for bringing fake messages to and from Mancuso. Pennisi said that before he was shelved Cammarano brought him to a meeting with the Luccheses and reintroduced him to everyone there as a soldier.

That introduction happened later. Cammarano shelved Spirito Jr because of the fake messages he was bringing from prison, then at some point he took him off the shelf and reintroduced him to the new Lucchese administration. Pennisi heard this was done because Spirito Sr had been in prison with Amuso and was able to settle his son's problems with the Lucchese family. This occured around mid-2017, when DeSantis was the Lucchese acting boss and Andrew DiSimone had been made acting consigliere.

Ah yeah you're right I got that mixed up.

[johnny_scootch]

No surprise that when the brawl happened at Vito Grimaldi's wake, Johnny Joe jr was the one that punched Cammarano first. A lot of bad blood there.

Details like who hit who first are known? I’ve been away a while when and where did we learn that?

It was in the GL article.

Sources say that when Joe C approached the casket where Grimaldi was laid out on Tuesday July 19, Spirito Jr., backed up by a handful of mobsters, "punched him in the mouth and knocked him down," and began to pummel him when bikers wearing suits who accompanied Joe C into the wake immediately came to his aid when the fisticuffs began and pulled Spirito off him.

Thank you.

[Wiseguy]

Like, he goes to see his father, who's what? A soldier? And comes back and makes himself acting underboss? Based off a visitation with his Dad? So what the fuck is his Dad's actual strength in the family? ( Now, I understand... it's that REGIME that really has control..)

Johnny or Chin can correct me, but I believe Capeci identified Spirito Sr. as a captain while he was in prison. Like Mancuso becoming boss after he went away, it looks like Spirito Sr. became a captain in prison then became underboss when he was released.

It does seem like Spirito Jr. was authorized to help run the Family while Mancuso and his father were in prison and there's the reference to him standing in as acting consigliere for an induction ceremony (maybe for symbolic reasons). I'd like to get more info on exactly what fake messages Spirito Jr. was accused of passing to the street -- was he actually making shit up or did the Cammarano faction simply disapprove of the moves he was making and make up an excuse to take his power away?

Spirito Sr was indicted as a soldier in 2002, Capeci reported him as a captain in 2013, as a "wiseguy" in 2019, and most recently underboss.

[JohnnyS]

I had a look through the archives and Wiseguy is correct, Capeci had him as a captain in 2013 then every article after that (up until the most recent of course) he had him as a soldier.

He also had Jr as an acting capo in 2013.

[JohnnyS]

All this Bonanno talk has reminded me I need to upload the Cammarano/Zancocchio trial transcripts. chin and kidyouknow already posted Lovaglio and Carube's testimony so I won't bother posting them but I have Stephen Sabella and William Cioffi's which are quite interesting. I should have them up later this week.

[newera_212]

Wish there was some more info on Spirito Sr. out there besides the little bit of stuff that's around. We've heard he's a "serious guy" and a "very respected guy" etc. - but I'd like to know why, basically. All that's really out there, is that he was under DeFilippo, he helped kill someone and served a long time in prison. Those last two things, the Bonnanos have a bunch guys with those credentials already, but without half the reputation that Spirito is alleged to have.

It's not 100% but going off of Capeci - if this guy was really given an official Captain position in the middle of a prison sentence, and was able to work directly with the Boss of another family to change situations for his people on the street (I know Prison is a different scene all together though) - he must really be something. At least to the guys in the Bronx anyway.

Does anyone know anything about Basicano and Spirito not getting along? I swear I remember reading something about that somewhere.