Patrickgold wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 8:49 pm
Tony, I saw one of your comments on YouTube where you said Francis Leroy Hohimer died in 2005 in Fox River Grove. I believe you are confusing the death of him with the death of that con artist named John Seybold. Seybold’s claim that he wrote the book the home invaders under the name Francis Hohimer. That is false. Hohimer was a real person who was on the FBI’s 10 most wanted list. I believe Hohimer died in 2003. Is it your belief that Hohimer and Seybold are the same people?
I was under the impressions that they were aliases of the same guy, but I’ll admit that I know next to nothing about Hohimer apart from the interstate trafficking pinch he caught in ‘72 with Leo Rugendorf and the Valerie Percy murder thing. I’ve seen “Thief”, of course, but never actually read the book.
You’re saying that Seybold actually wrote the book but was only pretending to be Hohimer when he did, or that Hohimer wrote the book and Seybold lied and said that he wrote it? Was Seybold just a con man? I’ve seen before that he did time in NJ in the 90s, but now I’m not sure if that’s accurate.
I’ve also seen it claimed that Seybold/Hohimer was working on the set of “Thief” as an advisor while wanted by the FBI, but I don’t think it would then be possible that it was the Hohimer that was pinched with Rugendorf (the one from the 10
Most wanted list), as he was apparently in the can then.
This Seybold guy claimed while he was in prison in the 90s that he wrote the book Thief under the fake name Frank Hohimer. Seybold is a jewish guy from Cleveland while Hohimer is a hillbilly from Southern Illinois. Seybold did get involved in outfit connected jewel theft rings in the 80s but other than that there is no similarities between the two. For some reason since Seybold’s claim, it has went viral on the internet that he is actually Hohimer even thought the differences. Hohimer was on the FBI ten most wanted list in the 60s and there are articles in the 70s talking about Hohimer, Rugendorf and Percy so I’m confused why this Seybold claim is taken legitimately. The only issue is that I can not find Hohimer’s obituary which would be under Francis Leroy Hohimer. There is also no SSN death record that I could find. I reached out to some of his family and the one surviving sister won’t discuss him but his cousin said he is dead and that he was probably cremated bc there is no grave for him. In regards to the book The Home Invaders, it is actually a very good book with a lot of information about the Outfit in the 60s so I recommend it.
Ah ok, that makes sense then. Thanks.
Yeah, Francis Leroy Hohimer was born in Menard County, IL. I can’t find any record of his death either, apart from a family tree entry that states that he died in 2003 in VA with no supporting documents.
I did read “The Home Invaders” last night. Fun book and thought it was a good window into the burglary racket in that era. Didn’t give much real insight into the mob, but the guy was a hillbilly burglar, so it’s not like he had that kind of access. One thing that stood out was that Hohimer claimed that he escaped from jail in Bridgeport, CT in 1971 (which is true, he was locked up in CT in ‘69 after being found running a pancake house there while on the 10 Most Wanted list for a gunpoint robbery of a wealthy philanthropist in Denver in ‘67) with assistance of an “outfit guy” named “Bever Saviago” (??), who Hohimer described as a “lieutenant” in the Genovese Family. Hohimer claimed that “Saviago” had connections to corrupt prison employees who facilitated Hohimer’s escape, in exchange for Hohimer pulling off a large jewelry theft. After spending some time in NYC, Hohimer says he decided to turn himself back in as he suspected that the mob was going to whack him after he pulled off the job. If true, I have no idea who this “Saviago” would be, though clearly Hohimer messed the name up.
I also note that there is a marriage record in CA for a Francis L Hohimer of the same in age in 1976. It seems to be him, but this is odd because he was sentenced to 30 years in Iowa in 1972 and at the time that the book was released in ‘75 was incarcerated. Was his conviction overturned or sentence commuted? If so, it wasn’t reported in the papers.
Wonder also if Seybold and Hohimer knew each other, given that Hohimer claimed in the book to have had close connections to guys in Cleveland and pulling burglaries in Shaker Heights.
A lot of known Outfit guys mentioned in the book like Willie Messino, Joe Gags and Milwaukee Phil. Leo Rugendorf seemed like a real ruthless person. The East St Louis guys mentioned in the book was interesting too. Hohimer really did business with a lot of different groups. I tried finding the genovese guy too but couldn’t. The guy might not have been a high ranking as Hohimer thought.
What I don’t understand is why Seybold’s claim has been spread like wild fire. If you type in Hohimer’s name in google it comes up as Seybold. It’s crazy.
I want to request Hohimer’s FBI files but don’t think I can bc there are no supporting documents that he died.
He could have been in the witness protection program. I don’t think he was but it’s possible. His brother Wayne’s obit in 1998 said Francis Hohimer of Miami Fl.
A possible way he got married during his 30 year sentence could have been he got married in a federal pen in California. Not sure if there is a way to get a list of federal prisons a immate has served in.
Yeah, he discussed meeting and working under a few guys, and the locations of some mob-connected clubs in Humboldt Park, which is of personal interest for me, but didn’t tell us anything about the organization itself that we wouldn’t already know (Messino and Gagliano being under Cerone, Rugendorf being an associate of Alderisio). He does state that Wortman answered to Chicago, which we also know from Teddy DeRose. The really interesting stuff for me is the way that he highlights how “the outfit” (by which he meant LCN in general, of course, not just Chicago) controlled prolific teams of burglars, jewel thieves, and armed robbers working all over the country, from big cities to rural areas (the guy was doing stuff in Chicago, downstate, Indiana, Minnesota, Iowa, Connecticut, NYC, Ohio, and I don’t think he was making it up given all of the press coverage of his various arrests and escapades).
I hadn’t thought of Federal prison as being a way that he could’ve been married in CA. He was sentenced to Iowa state prison in ‘72, but maybe he got transferred to the Feds or was also hit with additional Federal charges subsequently (which seems very possible given all his interstate stuff). His marriage was in San Luis Obispo. There’s a CA state prison there, but I’m not aware of any Federal prisons in that county (maybe there was in the 70s?). Otherwise, maybe he did flip and got out early for that reason. Would be interesting to find out what could be in his file if you ever manage to get ahold of it.
Is there a key to requesting FBI files and getting it approved? I never done it. How much do they typically cost?
Do we have confirmation that Leo Rugendorf and his brother Sam were both CIs? Hard to believe such a ruthless person like Leo Rugendorf was a CI.
I've mentioned this tidbit before, but a woman i worked with from the Italian neighborhoods near Elmwood said she worked at a hair salon where Cerone got manicured, she told me that Willie Messino was a nasty son of bitch and i believe she told me Cerone had to control him after he slapped a woman there.
funkster wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 4:47 pm
I've mentioned this tidbit before, but a woman i worked with from the Italian neighborhoods near Elmwood said she worked at a hair salon where Cerone got manicured, she told me that Willie Messino was a nasty son of bitch and i believe she told me Cerone had to control him after he slapped a woman there.
I have heard the same thing. Hohimer talks badly of him in his book too. My grandfather knew him and said he was a big time asshole. I laugh when I see these posts on Facebook claiming he was boss material and would have been a great boss. He basically was Accardo’s pet monkey care giver. That’s a fact. I mean if the boss is having you take care of his pet monkey, then how competent were you? Sounds more like a stooge
funkster wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 4:47 pm
I've mentioned this tidbit before, but a woman i worked with from the Italian neighborhoods near Elmwood said she worked at a hair salon where Cerone got manicured, she told me that Willie Messino was a nasty son of bitch and i believe she told me Cerone had to control him after he slapped a woman there.
I have heard the same thing. Hohimer talks badly of him in his book too. My grandfather knew him and said he was a big time asshole. I laugh when I see these posts on Facebook claiming he was boss material and would have been a great boss. He basically was Accardo’s pet monkey care giver. That’s a fact. I mean if the boss is having you take care of his pet monkey, then how competent were you? Sounds more like a stooge
I think of that story any time the Radas or other messinos jump in on pics of him in the fb group talking about what a wonderful grandfather he was lol.
She also incidentally grew up adjacent to those circles being she is also Italian from the neighborhood...lol went to school with Frank Coconate who she says was a bit of a loon even back then.
Patrickgold wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 4:19 pm
Is there a key to requesting FBI files and getting it approved? I never done it. How much do they typically cost?
Do we have confirmation that Leo Rugendorf and his brother Sam were both CIs? Hard to believe such a ruthless person like Leo Rugendorf was a CI.
Just given all of the guys that we know informed in various capacities over the years, I have no problem believing that any guy could be a CI, no matter how vicious or apparently loyal (look at guys like Scarpa and Bompensiero, for example). Former Chicago SAC Vincent Inserra stated in his book “C-1 and the Chicago Mob” that Leo Rugendorf approached the FBI and gave them intel on a number of mob-connected murders. Not shocking, given that Rugendorf was the one who fingered Hohimer to LE for the Valerie Percy murder (which, as you know, Hohimer was never charged with as he in turn told investigators that she was killed by two other burglars that he had worked with, who were convicted on it). I don’t know if he talked to the FBI apart from the specific murders he apparently informed about l, but for all we know he could’ve been any one of the number of non-member CIs that the FBI had in Chicago in the 1960s. Offhand, I don’t know if Sam Rugendorf was actually informing.
Apart from being an apparently nasty individual himself, some really vicious guys seem to have gotten their start working as burglars under Rugendorf, such as Schweihs and Tony Panzica.
"Hey, hey, hey — this is America, baby! Survival of the fittest.”
funkster wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 4:47 pm
I've mentioned this tidbit before, but a woman i worked with from the Italian neighborhoods near Elmwood said she worked at a hair salon where Cerone got manicured, she told me that Willie Messino was a nasty son of bitch and i believe she told me Cerone had to control him after he slapped a woman there.
I have heard the same thing. Hohimer talks badly of him in his book too. My grandfather knew him and said he was a big time asshole. I laugh when I see these posts on Facebook claiming he was boss material and would have been a great boss. He basically was Accardo’s pet monkey care giver. That’s a fact. I mean if the boss is having you take care of his pet monkey, then how competent were you? Sounds more like a stooge
I think of that story any time the Radas or other messinos jump in on pics of him in the fb group talking about what a wonderful grandfather he was lol.
She also incidentally grew up adjacent to those circles being she is also Italian from the neighborhood...lol went to school with Frank Coconate who she says was a bit of a loon even back then.
Didn't Fosco say that Messino and DiFronzo shared the underboss position for a few months until Messino lost his temper at a sit-down? They supposedly went with DiFronzo only after that.
funkster wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 4:47 pm
I've mentioned this tidbit before, but a woman i worked with from the Italian neighborhoods near Elmwood said she worked at a hair salon where Cerone got manicured, she told me that Willie Messino was a nasty son of bitch and i believe she told me Cerone had to control him after he slapped a woman there.
I have heard the same thing. Hohimer talks badly of him in his book too. My grandfather knew him and said he was a big time asshole. I laugh when I see these posts on Facebook claiming he was boss material and would have been a great boss. He basically was Accardo’s pet monkey care giver. That’s a fact. I mean if the boss is having you take care of his pet monkey, then how competent were you? Sounds more like a stooge
I think of that story any time the Radas or other messinos jump in on pics of him in the fb group talking about what a wonderful grandfather he was lol.
She also incidentally grew up adjacent to those circles being she is also Italian from the neighborhood...lol went to school with Frank Coconate who she says was a bit of a loon even back then.
Didn't Fosco say that Messino and DiFronzo shared the underboss position for a few months until Messino lost his temper at a sit-down? They supposedly went with DiFronzo only after that.
That rings a bell but I’d have to go back and look at what Joe said specifically. Presumably it was based on stuff that Willie told him, but it could also be confirmed by Mags, I’m sure, if true.
I’d think they may have initially shared an acting UB role if it was the case. While Fosco was close to him, he was older and may have calmed down a lot in his senior years. Certainly everything else I’ve seen about him painted Willie as a real prick. According to Fosco and Mags, Cerone himself was often a real prick to guys (though of course civilians from the community recall him as a gentleman outside that world). Joe Gags also always came across as a very rough dude as well (and it brought heat down on that crew, and the whole Family, with that case where they got pinched for abusing that German guy they had on juice who got so scared he ran to the cops).
"Hey, hey, hey — this is America, baby! Survival of the fittest.”
funkster wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 4:47 pm
I've mentioned this tidbit before, but a woman i worked with from the Italian neighborhoods near Elmwood said she worked at a hair salon where Cerone got manicured, she told me that Willie Messino was a nasty son of bitch and i believe she told me Cerone had to control him after he slapped a woman there.
I have heard the same thing. Hohimer talks badly of him in his book too. My grandfather knew him and said he was a big time asshole. I laugh when I see these posts on Facebook claiming he was boss material and would have been a great boss. He basically was Accardo’s pet monkey care giver. That’s a fact. I mean if the boss is having you take care of his pet monkey, then how competent were you? Sounds more like a stooge
I think of that story any time the Radas or other messinos jump in on pics of him in the fb group talking about what a wonderful grandfather he was lol.
She also incidentally grew up adjacent to those circles being she is also Italian from the neighborhood...lol went to school with Frank Coconate who she says was a bit of a loon even back then.
Didn't Fosco say that Messino and DiFronzo shared the underboss position for a few months until Messino lost his temper at a sit-down? They supposedly went with DiFronzo only after that.
Yes, he said it several times. Had to be around 1986.
From a 1965 report in Charles DiCaro's file. At this time, the report stated that the only confirmed LCN member for the Chicago FO was Rockford member Sebastian Gullotta. The FBI of course was attempting to develop sources to verify the membership status of the many suspected/possible Chicago-area LCN members at this time (we know that in 1965, their two best sources were Teddy DeRose and Fred Smith, both non-members, of course). At this time, the FBI ruled out Babe Tuffanelli as a member, based on their review of a transcript from the bug that they had previously placed in Celano's Custom Tailor Shop (the same big that picked up important intel like the Giancana/Accardo 1959 conversation discussing the Commission). I haven't seen the transcript in question, so I'm not sure what was actually said that the Feds felt definitely disconfirmed Tuffanelli.
"Hey, hey, hey — this is America, baby! Survival of the fittest.”
In 1973, the Chicago FO noted that the NYC FO had issued a report citing two of its sources as designating Charles "Specs" DiCaro as a member of the Chicago Family, though his surname was misspelled in the report. The Chicago FO had been carrying DiCaro as a non-member dating back to a 1966 report from their office. After the NYC report, the FBI carried DiCaro as an LCN member, though they had stopped collecting intel on him in 1973 after receiving information from Chicago CIs that DiCaro was no longer criminally active on the streets but instead working full-time at McCormick Place with the Teamsters (DiCaro was fired in '73 after the Tribune published a story detailing the mob-connected guys employed by the Teamsters at McCormick Place, including DePietto and Rocky Infelise, who, like DiCaro, had a history of narcotics dealing). We know that the DiCaro brothers had narcotics links to NYC going back to the 1950s and '60s (most likely with the Lucchese Family, as Frank Borelli was closely connected to Chicago in the 1950s), so it isn't shocking that the NYC FO had sources that could have been in the position to identify Specs DiCaro as a member. Worth noting also that DiCaro attended Ricca's funeral in 1972.
From the Chicago FO, 1973:
From the summation of FBI intel on DiCaro in 1980, at the end of his file:
"Hey, hey, hey — this is America, baby! Survival of the fittest.”
From a 1958 report that cited intel in 1955 that Prio was alleged to have been involved in narcotics trafficking via Canada. Worth noting here that Prio was also alleged to have had business interests in Canada via his interests in the Playboy Club, and that Montreal heroin trafficker Giuseppe Cotroni was stated by the Feds in the 1950s to have had ties to Chicago (they had wanted to extradite him to face a Grand Jury in Chicago, IIRC, but Canada did not permit it as Cotroni was already facing heroin trafficking charges there at the time). Further, under John DiBella, the Grande Cheese Company, which Prio had, of course, earlier been heavily involved in, had close ties to the Cotroni-linked Saputo Chees Co in Montreal (Giuseppe Saputo was DiBella's paesan' from Montelepre). It may be unrelated, but also interesting to report that the FBI in 1964 received intel that Prio was supplying Chicago heroin trafficker Carl Fiorito with juice loans while Fiorito was facing charges narcotics charges (the same 1961 heroin trafficking case that also pinched Teddy DeRose and led to the latter becoming a CI in 1964).
As a reminder, the Northside crew would seem to have had at least some earlier involvement with narcotics, given the 1948 arrest of Dom Nuccio and Joe LaBarbera with Lucchese member Frank Borelli:
PolackTony wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 2:41 pm
It's possible that the Northside crew had a long history of involvement in narcotics. In 1959, the Tribune reported that Frank Borelli, East Harlem Lucchese member and alleged "narcotics racket kingpin" then fighting extradition from Chicago to NJ, was brought to testify before a federal grand jury that was attempting to link Tony Accardo to "narcotics operations". The Trib reported at this time that Borelli had previously been arrested by CPD in Chicago, along with Dom "Libby" Nuccio and Joe "New York" LaBarbera (who may have later become a Buffalo member after leaving Chicago in the 1960s), in 1948; Borelli was found with a key in his possession to a Chicago safe deposit box that contained a stash of narcotics. At the 1964 Congressional Hearings on Organized Crime and Illicit Traffic in Narcotics, Borelli was described as a "wholesale trafficker in heroin to associates in New York, Chicago, and Cleveland". It was also reported at the hearings that in 1955, Borelli's associate Charles Curcio and Borelli's uncle, Joe and Ben Licchi, were busted for operating a heroin lab in Hackensack. Borelli went on the lam, and was found and arrested hiding out in Chicago in 1956. This heroin operation was linked to Carmine LoCascio and was stated to have "supplied heroin to Chicago and the Eastern seaboard".
"Hey, hey, hey — this is America, baby! Survival of the fittest.”
funkster wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 4:47 pm
I've mentioned this tidbit before, but a woman i worked with from the Italian neighborhoods near Elmwood said she worked at a hair salon where Cerone got manicured, she told me that Willie Messino was a nasty son of bitch and i believe she told me Cerone had to control him after he slapped a woman there.
I have heard the same thing. Hohimer talks badly of him in his book too. My grandfather knew him and said he was a big time asshole. I laugh when I see these posts on Facebook claiming he was boss material and would have been a great boss. He basically was Accardo’s pet monkey care giver. That’s a fact. I mean if the boss is having you take care of his pet monkey, then how competent were you? Sounds more like a stooge
I think of that story any time the Radas or other messinos jump in on pics of him in the fb group talking about what a wonderful grandfather he was lol.
She also incidentally grew up adjacent to those circles being she is also Italian from the neighborhood...lol went to school with Frank Coconate who she says was a bit of a loon even back then.
Didn't Fosco say that Messino and DiFronzo shared the underboss position for a few months until Messino lost his temper at a sit-down? They supposedly went with DiFronzo only after that.
That rings a bell but I’d have to go back and look at what Joe said specifically. Presumably it was based on stuff that Willie told him, but it could also be confirmed by Mags, I’m sure, if true.
I’d think they may have initially shared an acting UB role if it was the case. While Fosco was close to him, he was older and may have calmed down a lot in his senior years. Certainly everything else I’ve seen about him painted Willie as a real prick. According to Fosco and Mags, Cerone himself was often a real prick to guys (though of course civilians from the community recall him as a gentleman outside that world). Joe Gags also always came across as a very rough dude as well (and it brought heat down on that crew, and the whole Family, with that case where they got pinched for abusing that German guy they had on juice who got so scared he ran to the cops).
Don't forget in the book Casino there's a story that Cerone was wasted at an outfit bar and made one of the waitresses give him a blow job in front of everyone.
funkster wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 4:47 pm
I've mentioned this tidbit before, but a woman i worked with from the Italian neighborhoods near Elmwood said she worked at a hair salon where Cerone got manicured, she told me that Willie Messino was a nasty son of bitch and i believe she told me Cerone had to control him after he slapped a woman there.
I have heard the same thing. Hohimer talks badly of him in his book too. My grandfather knew him and said he was a big time asshole. I laugh when I see these posts on Facebook claiming he was boss material and would have been a great boss. He basically was Accardo’s pet monkey care giver. That’s a fact. I mean if the boss is having you take care of his pet monkey, then how competent were you? Sounds more like a stooge
I think of that story any time the Radas or other messinos jump in on pics of him in the fb group talking about what a wonderful grandfather he was lol.
She also incidentally grew up adjacent to those circles being she is also Italian from the neighborhood...lol went to school with Frank Coconate who she says was a bit of a loon even back then.
Didn't Fosco say that Messino and DiFronzo shared the underboss position for a few months until Messino lost his temper at a sit-down? They supposedly went with DiFronzo only after that.
That rings a bell but I’d have to go back and look at what Joe said specifically. Presumably it was based on stuff that Willie told him, but it could also be confirmed by Mags, I’m sure, if true.
I’d think they may have initially shared an acting UB role if it was the case. While Fosco was close to him, he was older and may have calmed down a lot in his senior years. Certainly everything else I’ve seen about him painted Willie as a real prick. According to Fosco and Mags, Cerone himself was often a real prick to guys (though of course civilians from the community recall him as a gentleman outside that world). Joe Gags also always came across as a very rough dude as well (and it brought heat down on that crew, and the whole Family, with that case where they got pinched for abusing that German guy they had on juice who got so scared he ran to the cops).
Don't forget in the book Casino there's a story that Cerone was wasted at an outfit bar and made one of the waitresses give him a blow job in front of everyone.
Lol, I think it was drunkenly telling her to give him one, not that she did it in front of everyone, but it's been a while since I've read the book.
funkster wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 4:47 pm
I've mentioned this tidbit before, but a woman i worked with from the Italian neighborhoods near Elmwood said she worked at a hair salon where Cerone got manicured, she told me that Willie Messino was a nasty son of bitch and i believe she told me Cerone had to control him after he slapped a woman there.
I have heard the same thing. Hohimer talks badly of him in his book too. My grandfather knew him and said he was a big time asshole. I laugh when I see these posts on Facebook claiming he was boss material and would have been a great boss. He basically was Accardo’s pet monkey care giver. That’s a fact. I mean if the boss is having you take care of his pet monkey, then how competent were you? Sounds more like a stooge
I think of that story any time the Radas or other messinos jump in on pics of him in the fb group talking about what a wonderful grandfather he was lol.
She also incidentally grew up adjacent to those circles being she is also Italian from the neighborhood...lol went to school with Frank Coconate who she says was a bit of a loon even back then.
Didn't Fosco say that Messino and DiFronzo shared the underboss position for a few months until Messino lost his temper at a sit-down? They supposedly went with DiFronzo only after that.
That rings a bell but I’d have to go back and look at what Joe said specifically. Presumably it was based on stuff that Willie told him, but it could also be confirmed by Mags, I’m sure, if true.
I’d think they may have initially shared an acting UB role if it was the case. While Fosco was close to him, he was older and may have calmed down a lot in his senior years. Certainly everything else I’ve seen about him painted Willie as a real prick. According to Fosco and Mags, Cerone himself was often a real prick to guys (though of course civilians from the community recall him as a gentleman outside that world). Joe Gags also always came across as a very rough dude as well (and it brought heat down on that crew, and the whole Family, with that case where they got pinched for abusing that German guy they had on juice who got so scared he ran to the cops).
Don't forget in the book Casino there's a story that Cerone was wasted at an outfit bar and made one of the waitresses give him a blow job in front of everyone.
Lol, I think it was drunkenly telling her to give him one, not that she did it in front of everyone, but it's been a while since I've read the book.
Can confirm that the waitress did in fact not give Cerone a blowie in front of an entire bar. I remember Cullotta saying Cerone was drunkenly telling her to “suck his prick” but she did not do the deed.
