newera_212 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 2:41 pm
I remember reading an article recently (past few years), an investigative piece centered around drivers/hauler's low wages, tough working conditions, and mandatory membership of paper locals that don't do shit - that mentioned Genovese member James "Jamie" Bernardone . So he's apparently involved with modern day garbage. Since Genovese member Hippy Zanfardino is apparently close with him, and has been alleged to extort a hauling company in the past, I would assume he probably has some involvement today as well.
Definitely need Garbageman to come on and give a breakdown, especially of the more modern day stuff.
I was under the impression that in an effort to make everything more 'fair' and environmentally conscious, the City was getting ride of the byzantine route system and dividing up the map into literal territories , and making companies re-apply for the new routes. Also limiting the number of routes a company can have (or essentially landlocking them into a specific territory). To prevent a company from having a route that transverses all of Brooklyn, then going into the City, then back into Brooklyn etc... while another company is doing something similar picking up garbage for businesses on the other side of the street on the same route. I was told this over the height of COVID by someone who works in the industry. Not sure of the details, accuracy, or plans for implementation
Hey guys. I still lurk around here, however I am so long out of the loop, my people have all either passed on, moved on or low-key (like me). I live in the woods off grid...like the unibomber these days. Just me and my 30 years of tools, equipment, welders, torches and a bunch of dogs and chickens.
That "franchise" system the city and BIC (with the Burger King Manager in Charge) concocted is the most ridiculous plan I've ever heard. It's so insulting, that it's sort of hysterical, actually.
Imagine, the billions that was spent over the last 70 years "rescuing" the city from "the tentacles of organized crime" with their property rights schemes and route ownership, only to copy that exact plan into a legal, government controlled and owned scheme and change the name property rights to franchising. MAN YOU GOTTA LOVE THE BALLS ON THESE NYC GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES!!
newera_212 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 2:41 pm
I remember reading an article recently (past few years), an investigative piece centered around drivers/hauler's low wages, tough working conditions, and mandatory membership of paper locals that don't do shit - that mentioned Genovese member James "Jamie" Bernardone . So he's apparently involved with modern day garbage. Since Genovese member Hippy Zanfardino is apparently close with him, and has been alleged to extort a hauling company in the past, I would assume he probably has some involvement today as well.
Definitely need Garbageman to come on and give a breakdown, especially of the more modern day stuff.
I was under the impression that in an effort to make everything more 'fair' and environmentally conscious, the City was getting ride of the byzantine route system and dividing up the map into literal territories , and making companies re-apply for the new routes. Also limiting the number of routes a company can have (or essentially landlocking them into a specific territory). To prevent a company from having a route that transverses all of Brooklyn, then going into the City, then back into Brooklyn etc... while another company is doing something similar picking up garbage for businesses on the other side of the street on the same route. I was told this over the height of COVID by someone who works in the industry. Not sure of the details, accuracy, or plans for implementation
Hey guys. I still lurk around here, however I am so long out of the loop, my people have all either passed on, moved on or low-key (like me). I live in the woods off grid...like the unibomber these days. Just me and my 30 years of tools, equipment, welders, torches and a bunch of dogs and chickens.
That "franchise" system the city and BIC (with the Burger King Manager in Charge) concocted is the most ridiculous plan I've ever heard. It's so insulting, that it's sort of hysterical, actually.
Imagine, the billions that was spent over the last 70 years "rescuing" the city from "the tentacles of organized crime" with their property rights schemes and route ownership, only to copy that exact plan into a legal, government controlled and owned scheme and change the name property rights to franchising. MAN YOU GOTTA LOVE THE BALLS ON THESE NYC GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES!!
Well it shouldn't be surprising. Peter Reuter explained that waste collection inherently produces a cartel structure in the form of a customer allocation agreement or a territorial-based divide. That's a by-product of an immobile customer that has the service provider come to their fixed location. Some industries are just natural monopolies, duopolies or cartel-like and thus need government regulation to prevent price-gouging.
newera_212 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 2:41 pm
I remember reading an article recently (past few years), an investigative piece centered around drivers/hauler's low wages, tough working conditions, and mandatory membership of paper locals that don't do shit - that mentioned Genovese member James "Jamie" Bernardone . So he's apparently involved with modern day garbage. Since Genovese member Hippy Zanfardino is apparently close with him, and has been alleged to extort a hauling company in the past, I would assume he probably has some involvement today as well.
Definitely need Garbageman to come on and give a breakdown, especially of the more modern day stuff.
I was under the impression that in an effort to make everything more 'fair' and environmentally conscious, the City was getting ride of the byzantine route system and dividing up the map into literal territories , and making companies re-apply for the new routes. Also limiting the number of routes a company can have (or essentially landlocking them into a specific territory). To prevent a company from having a route that transverses all of Brooklyn, then going into the City, then back into Brooklyn etc... while another company is doing something similar picking up garbage for businesses on the other side of the street on the same route. I was told this over the height of COVID by someone who works in the industry. Not sure of the details, accuracy, or plans for implementation
Hey guys. I still lurk around here, however I am so long out of the loop, my people have all either passed on, moved on or low-key (like me). I live in the woods off grid...like the unibomber these days. Just me and my 30 years of tools, equipment, welders, torches and a bunch of dogs and chickens.
That "franchise" system the city and BIC (with the Burger King Manager in Charge) concocted is the most ridiculous plan I've ever heard. It's so insulting, that it's sort of hysterical, actually.
Imagine, the billions that was spent over the last 70 years "rescuing" the city from "the tentacles of organized crime" with their property rights schemes and route ownership, only to copy that exact plan into a legal, government controlled and owned scheme and change the name property rights to franchising. MAN YOU GOTTA LOVE THE BALLS ON THESE NYC GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES!!
Well it shouldn't be surprising. Peter Reuter explained that waste collection inherently produces a cartel structure in the form of a customer allocation agreement or a territorial-based divide. That's a by-product of an immobile customer that has the service provider come to their fixed location. Some industries are just natural monopolies, duopolies or cartel-like and thus need government regulation to prevent price-gouging.
Gee, when you say it that way, it almost seems believable that public servants with ultimate authority wouldn't abuse it.
From what I have heard on this forum and elsewhere, the Colombos are still involved in garbage hauling in Long Island. That racket has existed for the Colombos since the 1960s, when they had near-complete control over certain townships and there were the infamous "garbage wars" between feuding Colombos and Gambinos (this was not an inter-family war, I have seen plenty of cases where Colombo guys were attacking each other over routes). Andrew Russo came to be the head of the Colombo garbage rackets into the 1980s and 1990s. Considering Russo was effectively barred from the garbage hauling industry way back in the '60s and continued to exert control through front men and front companies, it's hard to argue he magically disappeared.
Oh yeah, and Tommy Gioeli's brother Jack is a member of the Syosset Sanitation Board and was the town sanitation commissioner in the late '80s. I'm sure that's just a coincidence...
gohnjotti wrote: ↑Wed Mar 29, 2023 5:12 pm
From what I have heard on this forum and elsewhere, the Colombos are still involved in garbage hauling in Long Island. That racket has existed for the Colombos since the 1960s, when they had near-complete control over certain townships and there were the infamous "garbage wars" between feuding Colombos and Gambinos (this was not an inter-family war, I have seen plenty of cases where Colombo guys were attacking each other over routes). Andrew Russo came to be the head of the Colombo garbage rackets into the 1980s and 1990s. Considering Russo was effectively barred from the garbage hauling industry way back in the '60s and continued to exert control through front men and front companies, it's hard to argue he magically disappeared.
Oh yeah, and Tommy Gioeli's brother Jack is a member of the Syosset Sanitation Board and was the town sanitation commissioner in the late '80s. I'm sure that's just a coincidence...
Jack Gioeli's brother is certainly interesting. I know there was that 2018 case involving V Garafolo carting defrauding Smithtown on Long Island. The company was denied a license to operate in NYC back in 2004. Which again, shows what waste hauling opportunities there have been for the mob over the last couple decades have been more in the outlying areas surrounding NYC.
That said, that's the only recent example I can think of. While there was some involvement (including as you said with Andy Russo), even looking over the all the years, the Colombos didn't seem to have that much stake in the garbage business, relatively speaking. At some point, Long Island seemed to be primarily the territory of the Luccheses. And I seem to remember reading somewhere that about money from the LI rackets going the Gambino's way only because they controlled IBT Local 813.
gohnjotti wrote: ↑Wed Mar 29, 2023 5:12 pm
From what I have heard on this forum and elsewhere, the Colombos are still involved in garbage hauling in Long Island. That racket has existed for the Colombos since the 1960s, when they had near-complete control over certain townships and there were the infamous "garbage wars" between feuding Colombos and Gambinos (this was not an inter-family war, I have seen plenty of cases where Colombo guys were attacking each other over routes). Andrew Russo came to be the head of the Colombo garbage rackets into the 1980s and 1990s. Considering Russo was effectively barred from the garbage hauling industry way back in the '60s and continued to exert control through front men and front companies, it's hard to argue he magically disappeared.
Oh yeah, and Tommy Gioeli's brother Jack is a member of the Syosset Sanitation Board and was the town sanitation commissioner in the late '80s. I'm sure that's just a coincidence...
Jack Gioeli's brother is certainly interesting. I know there was that 2018 case involving V Garafolo carting defrauding Smithtown on Long Island. The company was denied a license to operate in NYC back in 2004. Which again, shows what waste hauling opportunities there have been for the mob over the last couple decades have been more in the outlying areas surrounding NYC.
That said, that's the only recent example I can think of. While there was some involvement (including as you said with Andy Russo), even looking over the all the years, the Colombos didn't seem to have that much stake in the garbage business, relatively speaking. At some point, Long Island seemed to be primarily the territory of the Luccheses. And I seem to remember reading somewhere that about money from the LI rackets going the Gambino's way only because they controlled IBT Local 813.
Colombo's lost major influence over garbage on Long Island in the late 1970s (which coincided with the rise of the Lucchese's/Avellino). The Colombo's through Sal Spatarella and other associates held sway over the Suffolk Cartman’s Association, but control was waning after Spaterlla went to prison in the mid-1970s. When he came out in 1977 he tried to hit back against those who stole his routes (including other Colombo associates like the Garafolo) and "Gambino/Local 813" aligned carters. Avellino's garbage trucks were also torched. Spatarella and his group of carters formed a new association (the Suffolk Solid Waste Association) and tried to get a new garbage union going (Brotherhood of Cartmen [Carters] and Haulers of North America). Spaterella died of a heart attack early in to 1977 and from then his "rebel" group withered away despite some early support from Andrew Russo. Eventually Local 813 ended up signing all the carters back, and a new association was formed (Private Sanitation Industry Association of Nassau/Suffolk) this time led by Avellino who skillfully networked with larger carters (and probably used his LCN affiliation) to become the new leader. It also helped that he was much "fairer" compared to previous LCN representatives like Spatarella/Aniello Mancuso from the Gambino's. Guys like Dennis Hickey and Frank Carione represented some vestiges of Colombo influence, but in 1986, a newspaper article described Russo as a major figure in the carting industry in the past tense. The 1989 civil RICO case only solidified that even more given the Colombo Family was not named as a defendants (even though some previously Colombo-aligned carters did appear as individual corporate defendants in the suit).
newera_212 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 2:41 pm
I remember reading an article recently (past few years), an investigative piece centered around drivers/hauler's low wages, tough working conditions, and mandatory membership of paper locals that don't do shit - that mentioned Genovese member James "Jamie" Bernardone . So he's apparently involved with modern day garbage. Since Genovese member Hippy Zanfardino is apparently close with him, and has been alleged to extort a hauling company in the past, I would assume he probably has some involvement today as well.
Definitely need Garbageman to come on and give a breakdown, especially of the more modern day stuff.
I was under the impression that in an effort to make everything more 'fair' and environmentally conscious, the City was getting ride of the byzantine route system and dividing up the map into literal territories , and making companies re-apply for the new routes. Also limiting the number of routes a company can have (or essentially landlocking them into a specific territory). To prevent a company from having a route that transverses all of Brooklyn, then going into the City, then back into Brooklyn etc... while another company is doing something similar picking up garbage for businesses on the other side of the street on the same route. I was told this over the height of COVID by someone who works in the industry. Not sure of the details, accuracy, or plans for implementation
Hey guys. I still lurk around here, however I am so long out of the loop, my people have all either passed on, moved on or low-key (like me). I live in the woods off grid...like the unibomber these days. Just me and my 30 years of tools, equipment, welders, torches and a bunch of dogs and chickens.
That "franchise" system the city and BIC (with the Burger King Manager in Charge) concocted is the most ridiculous plan I've ever heard. It's so insulting, that it's sort of hysterical, actually.
Imagine, the billions that was spent over the last 70 years "rescuing" the city from "the tentacles of organized crime" with their property rights schemes and route ownership, only to copy that exact plan into a legal, government controlled and owned scheme and change the name property rights to franchising. MAN YOU GOTTA LOVE THE BALLS ON THESE NYC GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES!!
newera_212 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 2:41 pm
I remember reading an article recently (past few years), an investigative piece centered around drivers/hauler's low wages, tough working conditions, and mandatory membership of paper locals that don't do shit - that mentioned Genovese member James "Jamie" Bernardone . So he's apparently involved with modern day garbage. Since Genovese member Hippy Zanfardino is apparently close with him, and has been alleged to extort a hauling company in the past, I would assume he probably has some involvement today as well.
Definitely need Garbageman to come on and give a breakdown, especially of the more modern day stuff.
I was under the impression that in an effort to make everything more 'fair' and environmentally conscious, the City was getting ride of the byzantine route system and dividing up the map into literal territories , and making companies re-apply for the new routes. Also limiting the number of routes a company can have (or essentially landlocking them into a specific territory). To prevent a company from having a route that transverses all of Brooklyn, then going into the City, then back into Brooklyn etc... while another company is doing something similar picking up garbage for businesses on the other side of the street on the same route. I was told this over the height of COVID by someone who works in the industry. Not sure of the details, accuracy, or plans for implementation
Hey guys. I still lurk around here, however I am so long out of the loop, my people have all either passed on, moved on or low-key (like me). I live in the woods off grid...like the unibomber these days. Just me and my 30 years of tools, equipment, welders, torches and a bunch of dogs and chickens.
That "franchise" system the city and BIC (with the Burger King Manager in Charge) concocted is the most ridiculous plan I've ever heard. It's so insulting, that it's sort of hysterical, actually.
Imagine, the billions that was spent over the last 70 years "rescuing" the city from "the tentacles of organized crime" with their property rights schemes and route ownership, only to copy that exact plan into a legal, government controlled and owned scheme and change the name property rights to franchising. MAN YOU GOTTA LOVE THE BALLS ON THESE NYC GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES!!
Hope all is well, buddy. Good to see you post.
Hey Cheech! All good here! Still 50 miles from NYC but not for long. Hopefully
