General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

[PolackTony]

Let’s also consider the fact that Aiuppa, Carlisi, and Monteleone were dead in 2005-6 when he gave that testimony. Since Difronzo was not indicted, it could have been an intentional oversight on calabrese’ s part.

You mean in that Calabrese could’ve been leaving DiFronzo out to protect him? If so, seems pretty unlikely to me given that Nick testified that DiFronzo was at the Spilotro murders.

Fair point. Although I would point out that at some point in the testimony they asked him if he thought Joey Andriacchi was an outfit leader of some kind. He responded that he didn’t know….ok Nick.

I don't remember Nick mentioning Andriacchi in his testimony.

There is also a part of the testimony where Nick confesses to not knowing much about what happened between capos and the boss/underboss. Nick essentially admitted that it was his job to work the streets and not necessarily be concerned about the upper-tier organization or operations. Frank -- despite being made at the same time as Nick -- was connected longer, had more responsibilities, and was personally acquainted with some of the more senior members, so it wouldn't be surprising if Frank had a better understanding about the structure and succession of top-level leadership in the organization.

IIRC, the only time in his testimony that Nick brought up Andriacchi was to note that he was a member of the Elmwood Park crew. I don’t believe that he was ever questioned on the stand about Andriacchi either.

Your points about Nicky are important. The picture I have of him was that he was content to follow orders, keep his head down, and mind his own business. He wasn’t the kind of guy who was trying to find out more than it was his business to know and Chicago didn’t have a lot of gossips compared to NYC. Frankie was clearly a much more aggressive and ambitious guy, who likely had aspired to become a captain but was apparently sidelined once Jimmy Lap was out. Frank likely made it much more of his business to know things and I’d imagine had a better grasp of some of the changes in admin than his brother.

[Angelo Santino]

Let’s also consider the fact that Aiuppa, Carlisi, and Monteleone were dead in 2005-6 when he gave that testimony. Since Difronzo was not indicted, it could have been an intentional oversight on calabrese’ s part.

You mean in that Calabrese could’ve been leaving DiFronzo out to protect him? If so, seems pretty unlikely to me given that Nick testified that DiFronzo was at the Spilotro murders.

Fair point. Although I would point out that at some point in the testimony they asked him if he thought Joey Andriacchi was an outfit leader of some kind. He responded that he didn’t know….ok Nick.

I don't remember Nick mentioning Andriacchi in his testimony.

There is also a part of the testimony where Nick confesses to not knowing much about what happened between capos and the boss/underboss. Nick essentially admitted that it was his job to work the streets and not necessarily be concerned about the upper-tier organization or operations. Frank -- despite being made at the same time as Nick -- was connected longer, had more responsibilities, and was personally acquainted with some of the more senior members, so it wouldn't be surprising if Frank had a better understanding about the structure and succession of top-level leadership in the organization.

IIRC, the only time in his testimony that Nick brought up Andriacchi was to note that he was a member of the Elmwood Park crew. I don’t believe that he was ever questioned on the stand about Andriacchi either.

Your points about Nicky are important. The picture I have of him was that he was content to follow orders, keep his head down, and mind his own business. He wasn’t the kind of guy who was trying to find out more than it was his business to know and Chicago didn’t have a lot of gossips compared to NYC. Frankie was clearly a much more aggressive and ambitious guy, who likely had aspired to become a captain but was apparently sidelined once Jimmy Lap was out. Frank likely made it much more of his business to know things and I’d imagine had a better grasp of some of the changes in admin than his brother.

What are your thoughts on Nick making no mention of consigliere?

[motorfab]

Question for Chicago experts:

I have already read that Sam Giancana had interests in the Casino du Liban in Beirut in the 1950s and 1960s.

From 1953, Marcel Francisci, Corsican big boss in gambling and very likely involved in the importation of morphine base between Lebanon and France (US & French polices belived it very hard), was one of the main shareholders of this Casino, until he managed it.

I think it is very likely that the two mobsters knew each other, but have you ever seen an official document attesting to this?

(the other day PolackTony was joking about a missing link between Chicago and the French underworld, here's a potential one)

Thanks for bringing this up. I haven’t seen any documentation myself of a direct link between Giancana and Francisci. Given the shared connection to the Casino du Liban, it was very likely that these two were familiar with each other.

That Giancana would’ve had ties to the Lebanese (and hence, French) underworld is underscored by the fact that he had longstanding connection in Beirut. It was revealed around the time of his murder that Giancana had kept an apartment in Beirut for years. In 1972, the FBI was told by one of their informants in Mexico City that Giancana had left Mexico for a period that year and had been staying in Beirut. The FBI was unable to confirm this with the Lebanese government but was actively inquiring about Giancana’s ties during the 70s to the Casino du Liban and the Beirut Golf Club. Mexican sources told the FBI the during the years of his stay in Mexico, Giancana left the country for frequent trips, including to Lebanon and Spain (that he was in Spain in 1971 was confirmed).

As you know, Francisci and Paul Mondoloni were accused by the FBN of being the figures behind the wholesale trafficking of heroin from Marseille to NYC (and Francisci became so notorious that Time magazine apparently featured him as a major narco-trafficker, prompting Francisci to sue). That he may well have had ties to Giancana during this period could be a big deal, as Richard Cain told the FBI (IIRC) that he and Giancana had become involved in narcotics trafficking in these years. Thus, it is at least possible that Giancana’s French connection was THE French Connection.

Thanks, that confirms what I thought too. I would just like to clarify what you say in the last sentence, to be sure that I have understood correctly. Are you saying that Giancana was the boss of heroin trafficking in Chicago or by "THE" you mean he was the main boss of heroin trafficking in the USA? I confess that I am not sure on this precise point, but for sure, if he was appointed with Francisci, he was not connected with a small fish.

Just a correction to my initial post: the Casino du Liban apparently opened in 1959, 1953 is the date when Francisci was banned from Casinos & cercles de jeux, it's a small detail, but sorry for the confusion. It seems that he took control of the casino in 1961.

[PolackTony]

Question for Chicago experts:

I have already read that Sam Giancana had interests in the Casino du Liban in Beirut in the 1950s and 1960s.

From 1953, Marcel Francisci, Corsican big boss in gambling and very likely involved in the importation of morphine base between Lebanon and France (US & French polices belived it very hard), was one of the main shareholders of this Casino, until he managed it.

I think it is very likely that the two mobsters knew each other, but have you ever seen an official document attesting to this?

(the other day PolackTony was joking about a missing link between Chicago and the French underworld, here's a potential one)

Thanks for bringing this up. I haven’t seen any documentation myself of a direct link between Giancana and Francisci. Given the shared connection to the Casino du Liban, it was very likely that these two were familiar with each other.

That Giancana would’ve had ties to the Lebanese (and hence, French) underworld is underscored by the fact that he had longstanding connection in Beirut. It was revealed around the time of his murder that Giancana had kept an apartment in Beirut for years. In 1972, the FBI was told by one of their informants in Mexico City that Giancana had left Mexico for a period that year and had been staying in Beirut. The FBI was unable to confirm this with the Lebanese government but was actively inquiring about Giancana’s ties during the 70s to the Casino du Liban and the Beirut Golf Club. Mexican sources told the FBI the during the years of his stay in Mexico, Giancana left the country for frequent trips, including to Lebanon and Spain (that he was in Spain in 1971 was confirmed).

As you know, Francisci and Paul Mondoloni were accused by the FBN of being the figures behind the wholesale trafficking of heroin from Marseille to NYC (and Francisci became so notorious that Time magazine apparently featured him as a major narco-trafficker, prompting Francisci to sue). That he may well have had ties to Giancana during this period could be a big deal, as Richard Cain told the FBI (IIRC) that he and Giancana had become involved in narcotics trafficking in these years. Thus, it is at least possible that Giancana’s French connection was THE French Connection.

Thanks, that confirms what I thought too. I would just like to clarify what you say in the last sentence, to be sure that I have understood correctly. Are you saying that Giancana was the boss of heroin trafficking in Chicago or by "THE" you mean he was the main boss of heroin trafficking in the USA? I confess that I am not sure on this precise point, but for sure, if he was appointed with Francisci, he was not connected with a small fish.

Just a correction to my initial post: the Casino du Liban apparently opened in 1959, 1953 is the date when Francisci was banned from Casinos & cercles de jeux, it's a small detail, but sorry for the confusion. It seems that he took control of the casino in 1961.

My "THE" in the last sentence was in reference to Francisci, as both the US FBN and European LE (as you're obviously well-aware) strongly believed that Francisci and Mondoloni were essentially the top figures behind the French side of the overall "French Connection" network (whether they really were or not, I can't say, but LE very much believed this to have been the case).

With respect to Giancana, I was not saying that he was anything close to the prime trafficker of heroin in Chicago, let alone the USA, just that he was very likely personally connected to a guy that probably was. Him and Cain had allegedly become involved in narcotics trafficking after Giancana fled the US. How much they were really involved in, and even if it had anything to do with the US or Chicago specifically, is unknown. We can presume that Giancana badly needed new sources of income to support his lfe in exile (multiple homes in Mexico as well as Beirut, payoffs to local officals and handlers, etc), so it would make sense that he might've turned to drug, though again the details and specifics of this are unknown to me.

[motorfab]

Oh ok, so it was me who misunderstood your sentence, my bad. But obviously I couldn't agree more

[PolackTony]

Let’s also consider the fact that Aiuppa, Carlisi, and Monteleone were dead in 2005-6 when he gave that testimony. Since Difronzo was not indicted, it could have been an intentional oversight on calabrese’ s part.

You mean in that Calabrese could’ve been leaving DiFronzo out to protect him? If so, seems pretty unlikely to me given that Nick testified that DiFronzo was at the Spilotro murders.

Fair point. Although I would point out that at some point in the testimony they asked him if he thought Joey Andriacchi was an outfit leader of some kind. He responded that he didn’t know….ok Nick.

I don't remember Nick mentioning Andriacchi in his testimony.

There is also a part of the testimony where Nick confesses to not knowing much about what happened between capos and the boss/underboss. Nick essentially admitted that it was his job to work the streets and not necessarily be concerned about the upper-tier organization or operations. Frank -- despite being made at the same time as Nick -- was connected longer, had more responsibilities, and was personally acquainted with some of the more senior members, so it wouldn't be surprising if Frank had a better understanding about the structure and succession of top-level leadership in the organization.

IIRC, the only time in his testimony that Nick brought up Andriacchi was to note that he was a member of the Elmwood Park crew. I don’t believe that he was ever questioned on the stand about Andriacchi either.

Your points about Nicky are important. The picture I have of him was that he was content to follow orders, keep his head down, and mind his own business. He wasn’t the kind of guy who was trying to find out more than it was his business to know and Chicago didn’t have a lot of gossips compared to NYC. Frankie was clearly a much more aggressive and ambitious guy, who likely had aspired to become a captain but was apparently sidelined once Jimmy Lap was out. Frank likely made it much more of his business to know things and I’d imagine had a better grasp of some of the changes in admin than his brother.

What are your thoughts on Nick making no mention of consigliere?

It remains an unsolved question to me. Nick neither brought up nor was asked about consiglieri on the stand. When the FS indictments were released to the public in 2005, however, it explicitly included a Consigliere position in the Family's admin, and actually placed it below the Boss but above the UB. Now, where did the Feds get this from? Other info about the structure of the Family in the indictments reflected language that Nick testified about -- e.g., "sottocapo", using "Number 1" and "Number 2" as euphemisms for the Boss and UB -- so one wonders what they were basing the Consigliere claim on. This is another reason why I'm keen to see Nick's 302, to see if the question came up there at all. Maybe it wasn't relevant to the FS charges and thus it wasn't brought up on the stand.

One guess on my part is that the position was vacant or obsolete by the time FS dropped. Possible that Accardo was the last official Consigliere, though perhaps already basically retired by the time Nick was made in '83 (when the subject of Accardo came up on the stand, Nick described him as a former boss who was basically "retired" by the time that Nick participated in the murder of Johnny Mendell in 1978).

[PolackTony]

Oh ok, so it was me who misunderstood your sentence, my bad. But obviously I couldn't agree more

It certainly seems to potentially have been one hell of a "missing link" there. Hopefully one of us or someone else will find something that can help to shed some light on this and confirm the exact connection.

IIRC, a CI told the FBI shortly before Giancana's murder that Mooney had told him that he had some big venture in the works involving Lebanon. Who knows what this could've involved exactly, if true, but we do know that one of the remaining members who was still close to Giancana after Cain was whacked and Mooney came back to Chicago, Butch Blasi, was informing to to the Feds, though I don't know if Blasi was the source for this claim.

[Coloboy]

Let’s also consider the fact that Aiuppa, Carlisi, and Monteleone were dead in 2005-6 when he gave that testimony. Since Difronzo was not indicted, it could have been an intentional oversight on calabrese’ s part.

You mean in that Calabrese could’ve been leaving DiFronzo out to protect him? If so, seems pretty unlikely to me given that Nick testified that DiFronzo was at the Spilotro murders.

Fair point. Although I would point out that at some point in the testimony they asked him if he thought Joey Andriacchi was an outfit leader of some kind. He responded that he didn’t know….ok Nick.

I don't remember Nick mentioning Andriacchi in his testimony.

There is also a part of the testimony where Nick confesses to not knowing much about what happened between capos and the boss/underboss. Nick essentially admitted that it was his job to work the streets and not necessarily be concerned about the upper-tier organization or operations. Frank -- despite being made at the same time as Nick -- was connected longer, had more responsibilities, and was personally acquainted with some of the more senior members, so it wouldn't be surprising if Frank had a better understanding about the structure and succession of top-level leadership in the organization.

I'm trying to locate that part about Andriacchi. Can any of you recall who else might have been a witness/on the stand who would have been asked about him? I'm very confident this happened but its possible it could have been someone other than Calabrese.

[Angelo Santino]

It remains an unsolved question to me. Nick neither brought up nor was asked about consiglieri on the stand. When the FS indictments were released to the public in 2005, however, it explicitly included a Consigliere position in the Family's admin, and actually placed it below the Boss but above the UB. Now, where did the Feds get this from? Other info about the structure of the Family in the indictments reflected language that Nick testified about -- e.g., "sottocapo", using "Number 1" and "Number 2" as euphemisms for the Boss and UB -- so one wonders what they were basing the Consigliere claim on. This is another reason why I'm keen to see Nick's 302, to see if the question came up there at all. Maybe it wasn't relevant to the FS charges and thus it wasn't brought up on the stand.

One guess on my part is that the position was vacant or obsolete by the time FS dropped. Possible that Accardo was the last official Consigliere, though perhaps already basically retired by the time Nick was made in '83 (when the subject of Accardo came up on the stand, Nick described him as a former boss who was basically "retired" by the time that Nick participated in the murder of Johnny Mendell in 1978).

I agree, seeing his 302 would be very illuminating. I do get the sense that he was reluctant, that he provided only what he had to without elaborating when asked, similar to Massino. As for Accardo being the last Consig, it's very possible. I myself, don't see Chicago on the the verge of becoming extinct anytime soon, if they don't utilize the position then it's by choice. Until then we'll always have Marco the Mover.

Another thing I was thinking about, is how you explained the different 'factions' (demographics) of what made up Chicago and may still continue to, I wonder if the "atmosphere" may be different for those in other factions apart from the the LaPietra / Calabrese experience. As far as I'm aware, the crews are diverse, there's no all-Sicilian Decine, but perhaps those members that come from a bloodline may have a different experience, one that isn't as dark as Calabrese described it.

I question this based on the similar situation you see in New York, the Sicilian Gambinos of Brooklyn likely had a different experience than the mainland ones in Harlem. Or the way Bonanno articulated the life compared to Joe Valachi.

[NorthBuffalo]

Wasn't Al "The Pizzaman" Tornabene rumored to be the consigliere around the time Family Secrets was going on?

[Snakes]

Wasn't Al "The Pizzaman" Tornabene rumored to be the consigliere around the time Family Secrets was going on?

I think that was just an assumption that a lot of people made (myself included) because he assisted Aiuppa with the inductions.

[NorthBuffalo]

Wasn't Al "The Pizzaman" Tornabene rumored to be the consigliere around the time Family Secrets was going on?

I think that was just an assumption that a lot of people made (myself included) because he assisted Aiuppa with the inductions.

I had just wondered if Nick was the one who initially said Tornabene was an 'advisor' or consigliere - I know Tornabene was known in Chicago since the late 90s and was on crime commission lists already, but it seemed like Tornabene became a well-known name during Family Secrets simply because Nick outted him for being involved in his making ceremony.

[Angelo Santino]

Around the time of the trial, there were articles claiming that Tornabene was boss of the outfit, a news channel showed up at his door step, knocked and he answers in a white t-shirt and they tell him that some are calling him the boss. He smiles in disbelief and says "I can't even walk." Then there was recordings shown of him walking hunched over being escorted by two guys.

[Frank]

Tornabene was being Chauffeured around town by one of the Carusos after the FS arrests

[Frank]

Is itstill believed that Tornabene was Boss before Marcello?