Question on the second NYC mafia war

[Sullycantwell]

1.) was Salvatore D'Aquila the one responsible for the murders of Carmelo Nicolisi and/or Giuseppe Lagumina?

2.) does anyone know where Giuseppe Viserti (Lagumina's alleged killer) is from and what family he was connected to? was it the Morello's who killed him while he was out on bail? His death is weird because he was a partner with Vincenzo Terranova, but killed Lagumina who appears to have been a Morello member.

3.) Did D'Aquila kill any members of Schiro's borgata in this war? If so, who?

[motorfab]

I think Peppe Viserti was with Masseria and Schiro's borgata was out of this conflict.

[Sullycantwell]

I think Peppe Viserti was with Masseria and Schiro's borgata was out of this conflict.

thanks, do you mean that D'Aquila didnt kill anyone in Schiro's borgata? The "good killers" killed multiple people in this conflict and as we know, they were in Schiro's borgata.

[Sullycantwell]

If Viserti was with Masseria, then maybe Lagumina was one of the three Loiacano loyalists at Loiacano's funeral not listed in newspapers.

[motorfab]

Yeah, I could be wrong, but I don't think anyboddy of Schiro's borgata was kill during this

[B.]

Silvio Tagliagambe was probably a Bonanno member or associate who was killed. His nephew joined the Bonannos and Silvio was very close to Paolo Palmeri. His sister-in-law was a Palmeri and I believe he had lived in Williamsburg too.

[Sullycantwell]

thanks B, i forgot about him. Does anyone know if Salvatore Riccobono (the one murdered in december 1921) was a D'Aquila member? he was from capaci which is close to Palermo. also, his brother was a mafiosi, but the informer article doesn't say his affiliation. does this mark the first D'Aquila member killed in the war?

[Antiliar]

1.) was Salvatore D'Aquila the one responsible for the murders of Carmelo Nicolisi and/or Giuseppe Lagumina?

2.) does anyone know where Giuseppe Viserti (Lagumina's alleged killer) is from and what family he was connected to? was it the Morello's who killed him while he was out on bail? His death is weird because he was a partner with Vincenzo Terranova, but killed Lagumina who appears to have been a Morello member.

3.) Did D'Aquila kill any members of Schiro's borgata in this war? If so, who?

Remember there were three sides to the conflict: 1) There was Morello's side; 2) there was the side that supported Loiacono; and 3) there was D'Aquila, who was allied with the Loiacono supporters. Since we only know what was reported, we don't know if any of the victims switched sides or were insufficiently loyal. We also don't know if any killers shot the wrong targets.

1) Nicolosi and/or Lagumina were most likely Morello supporters, so were probably killed by Loiacono supporters or D'Aquila.

2) Giuseppe Viserti was from Sarno, Salerno, Italy, which is very close to the Capone hometown of Angri. We don't know if he killed Lagumina. That was the accusation, but it wasn't proven.

3) B answered this question.

[Angelo Santino]

1.) was Salvatore D'Aquila the one responsible for the murders of Carmelo Nicolisi and/or Giuseppe Lagumina?

2.) does anyone know where Giuseppe Viserti (Lagumina's alleged killer) is from and what family he was connected to? was it the Morello's who killed him while he was out on bail? His death is weird because he was a partner with Vincenzo Terranova, but killed Lagumina who appears to have been a Morello member.

3.) Did D'Aquila kill any members of Schiro's borgata in this war? If so, who?

Remember there were three sides to the conflict: 1) There was Morello's side; 2) there was the side that supported Loiacono; and 3) there was D'Aquila, who was allied with the Loiacono supporters. Since we only know what was reported, we don't know if any of the victims switched sides or were insufficiently loyal. We also don't know if any killers shot the wrong targets.

1) Nicolosi and/or Lagumina were most likely Morello supporters, so were probably killed by Loiacono supporters or D'Aquila.

2) Giuseppe Viserti was from Sarno, Salerno, Italy, which is very close to the Capone hometown of Angri. We don't know if he killed Lagumina. That was the accusation, but it wasn't proven.

3) B answered this question.

The Loiacano "faction" became the Luccheses but what I'd strongly focus on and emphasize is the official organizational succession.

Morello - 189? - 1912
Pecoraro - 1910-1912 (Acting in some capacity)
LoMonte - 1912-1914
Greco - 1914-1914 (possibly)
Loiacano - 191?-1920
Reina - 192?-1930

In every era of the New York Mafia, we know Families weren't islands, that there was plenty of mingling and networking. And we know from Gentile that General Assemblies and Grand Councils governed the US much like the Commission did post '31. It can be assumed by the blowback Morello received for Loiacano's murder, that it was unsanctioned and not approved by D'Aquila the BOB, the Grand Council or Assembly. Former boss or not, Morello murdered a sitting boss, no different than Tony Bananas or John Gotti. The BOB, Council and Assembly seemingly considered this a violation and likely refused Morello's campaign to return as Family Boss.

So what you had, theoretically, is the BOB, GC, GE firmly against Morello's attempts and a death sentence was issued. One must consider the internal impact these factors played on the Corleonesi membership. We know that internal wars are never 50/50 but rather 20 for and 20 against with 60% in the middle who stay out of the politics and don't care/won't influence who is Boss. (This likely plays a part in why mafia wars have a history of being won by minority factions. Orena had the support of 3/4's while Perisco 1/4 and look who won. Same for Merlino). Using these more recent wars as a template, I think it's likely that most of the "Corleonesi" had no intention of defying the BOB and the Mafia government and opted to toe the line and remain in good standing. These members weren't going to put their life on the line for former boss Morello, whether they liked him or not. Organizationally, the Luccheses are the true formal successor to the early Corleonesi.

* Eric originally stated this and I disagreed that the Luccheses were and that it was instead both. My thinking has evolved. I think Eric was correct.

Which brings us to Morello, he had his (likely small) faction of the Family that went with him. It shares similarities to Joe Bonanno's situation in the 60's. He was deposed and not official but still a major force. we learned from Griffin in the 60's, the DiGregorio "faction" was composed of Cast and traditionalists, Bonanno's "faction" consisted of relatives, core supporters and a sizable portion of newly made Italian-American street hoodlums. We see reflections of this with the 2nd War where the Luccheses maintained the political links and "genetic makeup" of the Corleonesi while Morello's group became the Genovese family which grew to become to least-Sicilian influenced of the Families.

Loiacano was killed in 1920, it appears this dispute was squashed in 1924 when all sides agreed to a ceasefire. From 1920 to 1924 you have Vincenzo Terranova and Joe Masseria floated as powerhouses in this roque faction. Gentile called Masseria a boss in 1921. But it's possible these positions weren't formalized until 1924 when the Morello-Masseria group was accepted and instated back in the Mafia as its own Family independent of Corleonesi-Loiacano-Lucchese group. One of the apparent edicts was that for this to happen, Morello could be Boss, so it went to Masseria. Organizationally speaking, Masseria was likely the first official boss of the Gens. Operationally, they were well entrenched with former powerhouse Morello, Ciro Terranova, Frank Yale and other loyalists. What this rebel group managed to achieve was a true David and Goliath situation. They defied the Mafia government that had a death sentence on them to eventually being accepted and formalized as its own Family. This likely only could have been achieved through power and political connections. We know that despite the death sentence, members of other families, including D'Aquila-Gambinos, still secretly did business with them.

-

Now going back to the Good Killers, the informant claimed they were responsible for murders in Detroit including the Giannolas, but James Buccellato researched them and concluded that this wasn't the case and that their murders were later cleared up with no indication of the GK's involvement. If he made that mistake in Detroit, is it possible he made that same mistake for NY? Schiro and the Bonannos through history, have always operated fairly conservatively, for them to take up arms for Morello, a renegade faction, would put them at odds with the BOB, GC and GE. We know that when Gentile transferred to NY he joined the Bonannos and even described Schiro as a neutralist.

Just something to consider.

[OmarSantista]

Really really good and helpful detailing summary of information. Studying this Morello faction split before & after Loiacano is just fascinating. I think it would be safe to say Masseria was the first Genovese family boss since we don't have documentation of Vincenzo Terranova as an official sitting boss and Morello couldn't be appointed although we know he was likely the top advisor to Masseria. I'm going to keep rewatching the formation of the Genovese family vid on the podcast but can someone inform me how Morello and Masseria became one. Would Morello know Masseria was a previous BOB? Would Masseria's new title influence Morello's plans to retrieve his own boss title or was he okay with being #2 so long as he got to live. When Morello realized he wouldn't be a boss again formally did he stay close to Masseria for the power Masseria had as well as being a seasoned veteran member of the mafia knowing he could assist Masseria. Did he stay close because he felt that new family was just as much his as it was appointed to Masseria.

[Antiliar]

Really really good and helpful detailing summary of information. Studying this Morello faction split before & after Loiacano is just fascinating. I think it would be safe to say Masseria was the first Genovese family boss since we don't have documentation of Vincenzo Terranova as an official sitting boss and Morello couldn't be appointed although we know he was likely the top advisor to Masseria. I'm going to keep rewatching the formation of the Genovese family vid on the podcast but can someone inform me how Morello and Masseria became one. Would Morello know Masseria was a previous BOB? Would Masseria's new title influence Morello's plans to retrieve his own boss title or was he okay with being #2 so long as he got to live. When Morello realized he wouldn't be a boss again formally did he stay close to Masseria for the power Masseria had as well as being a seasoned veteran member of the mafia knowing he could assist Masseria. Did he stay close because he felt that new family was just as much his as it was appointed to Masseria.

I think Morello was the first Lucchese boss AND the first Genovese boss. Giuseppe Morello was the earliest BoB Nicola Gentile mentions. Sebastiano DiGaetano was reportedly the provisional BoB until a new one was elected, and that was apparently Toto D'Aquila. Masseria succeeded D'Aquila, then because of the dispute Gaspare Messina of Boston was chosen as the acting or provisional BoB. After Masseria was killed it went to Maranzano, who was the last one.

Regarding Morello's relationship with Masseria, it appears to me that Morello made Masseria the boss of what we now call the Genovese Family. Morello, according to Bonanno, was Masseria's "brains," so he may have been the underboss. I don't think Morello had any intention of becoming a boss again nor a BoB since he and Masseria operated as a team. As for Vincent Terranova, if he was a boss it would have been for a short time and it's probably fair to assume that he wasn't recognized by D'Aquila. The lack of evidence doesn't mean that he wasn't, since absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. There is simply a lack of good inside information during this period; solid inside confidential informants seemed to have dried up. There is material that *suggests* he could have been, but that's all there is. This is my opinion based on my research, but others may come to a different conclusion.

[B.]

Bonanno also said Morello was Masseria's "chief advisor". As a former boss and senior figure I could see him being consigliere whereas underboss doesn't seem like an obvious role for someone like him. Pollaccia was Masseria's consigliere by 1931 and for a time in 1932 but we don't know when that happened -- could have been after Morello's 1930 murder or like you said Morello may have had another position like underboss if Pollaccia's term went back further. Morello is also someone who inevitably had de facto authority regardless of his formal rank.

I'm agnostic about how the Lucchese and Genovese Families were perceived in context with the Morello break-up. They both came from that Family and the Luccheses were the main heir of the Corleonesi but by the late 1910s and early 20s the Morello group looks to have been recruiting a broader base of members that filled out the early Genovese, Frankie Yale being one. It depends on whether one Family was officially recognized as the true continuation of the original Family and there's reason to believe the Genovese were not seen that way when the conflict broke out but in terms of the initial membership both Families drew from the same base. This is where recognition, politics, and formal rules are extremely important.

Giuseppe Viserti is another who was probably an early mainland recruit of the Morello Family like Ubriaco and Yale. Viserti's murder was linked to a Calabrian figure who was involved with the other Calabrians on the Brooklyn docks that fed into the Gambinos. I've wondered if the Brooklyn conflict was connected to the larger mafia war taking place simultaneously but we lack inside sources who can confirm and outsider coverage is questionable. It doesn't seem to have been limited to Calabrians vs. Sicilians as LiConti was a suspect in the shooting that killed Giordano and wounded Anastasia -- LiConti may have been acting on behalf of the Gambino leadership given he attended Lupo's banquet toward the end of the war. We can't assume Giordano and Anastasia were simply anti-mafia rogues either as Giordano was close to LiConti and their apartments were directly next to each other in the same building a few years earlier. They all may have been mafia members or associates already during their conflict and even though Calabrians were killing Palermitani and vice versa there is reason to believe it wasn't black and white.

[Sullycantwell]

1.) was Salvatore D'Aquila the one responsible for the murders of Carmelo Nicolisi and/or Giuseppe Lagumina?

2.) does anyone know where Giuseppe Viserti (Lagumina's alleged killer) is from and what family he was connected to? was it the Morello's who killed him while he was out on bail? His death is weird because he was a partner with Vincenzo Terranova, but killed Lagumina who appears to have been a Morello member.

3.) Did D'Aquila kill any members of Schiro's borgata in this war? If so, who?

Remember there were three sides to the conflict: 1) There was Morello's side; 2) there was the side that supported Loiacono; and 3) there was D'Aquila, who was allied with the Loiacono supporters. Since we only know what was reported, we don't know if any of the victims switched sides or were insufficiently loyal. We also don't know if any killers shot the wrong targets.

1) Nicolosi and/or Lagumina were most likely Morello supporters, so were probably killed by Loiacono supporters or D'Aquila.

2) Giuseppe Viserti was from Sarno, Salerno, Italy, which is very close to the Capone hometown of Angri. We don't know if he killed Lagumina. That was the accusation, but it wasn't proven.

3) B answered this question.

The Loiacano "faction" became the Luccheses but what I'd strongly focus on and emphasize is the official organizational succession.

Morello - 189? - 1912
Pecoraro - 1910-1912 (Acting in some capacity)
LoMonte - 1912-1914
Greco - 1914-1914 (possibly)
Loiacano - 191?-1920
Reina - 192?-1930

In every era of the New York Mafia, we know Families weren't islands, that there was plenty of mingling and networking. And we know from Gentile that General Assemblies and Grand Councils governed the US much like the Commission did post '31. It can be assumed by the blowback Morello received for Loiacano's murder, that it was unsanctioned and not approved by D'Aquila the BOB, the Grand Council or Assembly. Former boss or not, Morello murdered a sitting boss, no different than Tony Bananas or John Gotti. The BOB, Council and Assembly seemingly considered this a violation and likely refused Morello's campaign to return as Family Boss.

So what you had, theoretically, is the BOB, GC, GE firmly against Morello's attempts and a death sentence was issued. One must consider the internal impact these factors played on the Corleonesi membership. We know that internal wars are never 50/50 but rather 20 for and 20 against with 60% in the middle who stay out of the politics and don't care/won't influence who is Boss. (This likely plays a part in why mafia wars have a history of being won by minority factions. Orena had the support of 3/4's while Perisco 1/4 and look who won. Same for Merlino). Using these more recent wars as a template, I think it's likely that most of the "Corleonesi" had no intention of defying the BOB and the Mafia government and opted to toe the line and remain in good standing. These members weren't going to put their life on the line for former boss Morello, whether they liked him or not. Organizationally, the Luccheses are the true formal successor to the early Corleonesi.

* Eric originally stated this and I disagreed that the Luccheses were and that it was instead both. My thinking has evolved. I think Eric was correct.

Which brings us to Morello, he had his (likely small) faction of the Family that went with him. It shares similarities to Joe Bonanno's situation in the 60's. He was deposed and not official but still a major force. we learned from Griffin in the 60's, the DiGregorio "faction" was composed of Cast and traditionalists, Bonanno's "faction" consisted of relatives, core supporters and a sizable portion of newly made Italian-American street hoodlums. We see reflections of this with the 2nd War where the Luccheses maintained the political links and "genetic makeup" of the Corleonesi while Morello's group became the Genovese family which grew to become to least-Sicilian influenced of the Families.

Loiacano was killed in 1920, it appears this dispute was squashed in 1924 when all sides agreed to a ceasefire. From 1920 to 1924 you have Vincenzo Terranova and Joe Masseria floated as powerhouses in this roque faction. Gentile called Masseria a boss in 1921. But it's possible these positions weren't formalized until 1924 when the Morello-Masseria group was accepted and instated back in the Mafia as its own Family independent of Corleonesi-Loiacano-Lucchese group. One of the apparent edicts was that for this to happen, Morello could be Boss, so it went to Masseria. Organizationally speaking, Masseria was likely the first official boss of the Gens. Operationally, they were well entrenched with former powerhouse Morello, Ciro Terranova, Frank Yale and other loyalists. What this rebel group managed to achieve was a true David and Goliath situation. They defied the Mafia government that had a death sentence on them to eventually being accepted and formalized as its own Family. This likely only could have been achieved through power and political connections. We know that despite the death sentence, members of other families, including D'Aquila-Gambinos, still secretly did business with them.

-

Now going back to the Good Killers, the informant claimed they were responsible for murders in Detroit including the Giannolas, but James Buccellato researched them and concluded that this wasn't the case and that their murders were later cleared up with no indication of the GK's involvement. If he made that mistake in Detroit, is it possible he made that same mistake for NY? Schiro and the Bonannos through history, have always operated fairly conservatively, for them to take up arms for Morello, a renegade faction, would put them at odds with the BOB, GC and GE. We know that when Gentile transferred to NY he joined the Bonannos and even described Schiro as a neutralist.

Just something to consider.

Great info, what evidence is there that Greco was boss? did that come out in the Barnett Baff murder trial?

[B.]

The other thing is there was a rule in the Commission era that an official boss couldn't be confirmed if the Family was in a state of political or violent conflict. This could have gone back to the capo and Gran Consiglio era and raises questions about official positions when a boss was killed during these early conflicts.

Same thing for the Castellammarese War. The Luccheses probably didn't have an official boss between Pinzolo's murder in 1930 and Gagliano being recognized after the war.

[Angelo Santino]

The other thing is there was a rule in the Commission era that an official boss couldn't be confirmed if the Family was in a state of political or violent conflict. This could have gone back to the capo and Gran Consiglio era and raises questions about official positions when a boss was killed during these early conflicts.

Same thing for the Castellammarese War. The Luccheses probably didn't have an official boss between Pinzolo's murder in 1930 and Gagliano being recognized after the war.

That's why I'm arguing that Giuseppe Morello and Vincent Terranova weren't officially early bosses of the gens. If they were accepted officially in 24 it would have been masseria. Had we been able to ask D'Aquila in 1921 if he considered both Morello and Reina as two formal bosses of the former singular Corleonesi, he probrobably would have said 'oh hell no!' That's org. Operationally, the Gen family wouldn't have been formed and as powerful without Morello, Rerranova, Masseria, Yale. They didn't evolve out of thin air in 1924. The op is just as interesting, if not more in some ways, than the org.

Fast forward 60 years, the Merlino faction was originally headed up by Mike Chang before his murder, this doesn't make him a boss in the organizational sense, nor Merlino before 1999. Both men were, in organizational terms, soldiers, during the Stanfa conflict. If you asked Stanfa or the Gambinos if Philly had two bosses of two distinct factions they would have said no, the boss was Stanfa. This shows that the org doesn't tell the full story, the op needs to be considered weighed just as equally. But it's a distinction that needs to be noted, otherwise people assume that it's a free for all, that anyone with a faction can stake their claim as an official boss when they can't, within the confines of the organization. There's a process, a form of official acceptance.

Lastly/additionally, you've become agnostic to the Lucs being the rightful successor while I've moved firmly into that column. Years back I argued territory as reasoning why the Gens, not to mention Morello and anyone who went with him, were just as much the rightful heirs. I'm retracting that. Organizationally, Reina was sanctioned to take over for Loiacano and the Morello-Terranova-Masseria faction were outcasts until they won't. One side has a clear and formal succession while the other side was a forced recognition. They were a power and it was easier to accept them after a 4 year war.

Now watch you try and argue me back to the neutral column, lol.