General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

[funkster]

Caparelli, the Quack Quack of the Outfit.

[Ivan]

I don't know how I overlooked this when the Carparelli article dropped yesterday, but Scott's sources told him that Paulie was indeed made by Sarno.

Not sure how that happens. Sarno was indicted in 2009 and sentenced in 2010. As I said, according to Carpelli's prosecutor, he was still a wannabe member in 2016. Did they have the induction by Zoom? Maybe we should ask one of the other "20 to 30" guys Sarno inducted in the 2000s.

Yeah I was confused by that too. Though hasn't he been around forever, going back to being a 12th Street Player in the 80s and working his way up? Not sure when he graduated from Player to "Outfit associate."

[Frank]

I take it that Inendino wasn't one of the CIs that we were trying to guess who they are or were?

[PolackTony]

I take it that Inendino wasn't one of the CIs that we were trying to guess who they are or were?

Not that I’m aware. I don’t recall ever seeing his informant code mentioned in any files that I’ve seen and the document shared by Chuck Goudie stated that Inendino only shared info relevant to truck hijacking.

Even if he had instead shared more than that, I don’t know how much he would’ve necessarily known about the organization. He wasn’t made until over 10 years after the period in question.

[InCamelot]

I take it that Inendino wasn't one of the CIs that we were trying to guess who they are or were?

Not that I’m aware. I don’t recall ever seeing his informant code mentioned in any files that I’ve seen and the document shared by Chuck Goudie stated that Inendino only shared info relevant to truck hijacking.

Even if he had instead shared more than that, I don’t know how much he would’ve necessarily known about the organization. He wasn’t made until over 10 years after the period in question.

I think I've read/heard multiple possible time periods of when he was made. Could you remind me approx when Jimmy I was made if it isn't as up in the air as I remember?

[PolackTony]

I don't know how I overlooked this when the Carparelli article dropped yesterday, but Scott's sources told him that Paulie was indeed made by Sarno.

Not sure how that happens. Sarno was indicted in 2009 and sentenced in 2010. As I said, according to Carpelli's prosecutor, he was still a wannabe member in 2016. Did they have the induction by Zoom? Maybe we should ask one of the other "20 to 30" guys Sarno inducted in the 2000s.

Yeah I was confused by that too. Though hasn't he been around forever, going back to being a 12th Street Player in the 80s and working his way up? Not sure when he graduated from Player to "Outfit associate."

There’s likely a continuum in the sense that I don’t think that belonging to ATSPN and being an associate of the mob are necessarily mutually exclusive. At some point Paulie would’ve become inactive in gang activity but he would still be a member of the Players unless he was formally removed (Chicago gangs strictly demarcate members from non-members in a similar fashion to LCN and this is enacted via a ritualized induction as well). When did Albie Vena stop being a C-Note? Probably never in a a formal sense, but at some point he gravitated away from active involvement in that organization and became formally affiliated with the mob, though his formal affiliation with the mob could’ve already been in place when he was still actively involved in gang activities.

[Ivan]

There’s likely a continuum in the sense that I don’t think that belonging to ATSPN and being an associate of the mob are necessarily mutually exclusive. At some point Paulie would’ve become inactive in gang activity but he would still be a member of the Players unless he was formally removed (Chicago gangs strictly demarcate members from non-members in a similar fashion to LCN and this is enacted via a ritualized induction as well). When did Albie Vena stop being a C-Note? Probably never in a a formal sense, but at some point he gravitated away from active involvement in that organization and became formally affiliated with the mob, though his formal affiliation with the mob could’ve already been in place when he was still actively involved in gang activities.

Right, that's what I was thinking. Paulie would have been almost middle aged during the Sarno era. Active street gang participation gradually fades as active Outfit participation increases, but there's no clean break switcheroo between identities and he was probably doing both at the same time during a transitional period.

Do Italian kids still join those gangs, or is it pretty much a Hispanic thing now?

[B.]

From what Tony has shared, there is far more Italian-American involvement in Chicago street gangs than I would have imagined and it intersects with the Chicago Family historically and possibly even now.

[PolackTony]

There’s likely a continuum in the sense that I don’t think that belonging to ATSPN and being an associate of the mob are necessarily mutually exclusive. At some point Paulie would’ve become inactive in gang activity but he would still be a member of the Players unless he was formally removed (Chicago gangs strictly demarcate members from non-members in a similar fashion to LCN and this is enacted via a ritualized induction as well). When did Albie Vena stop being a C-Note? Probably never in a a formal sense, but at some point he gravitated away from active involvement in that organization and became formally affiliated with the mob, though his formal affiliation with the mob could’ve already been in place when he was still actively involved in gang activities.

Right, that's what I was thinking. Paulie would have been almost middle aged during the Sarno era. Active street gang participation gradually fades as active Outfit participation increases, but there's no clean break switcheroo between identities and he was probably doing both at the same time during a transitional period.

Do Italian kids still join those gangs, or is it pretty much a Hispanic thing now?

Still joining as in right now? Probably a few but not many today. When I was on the street in the 90s there were still plenty of Italian and other White gangbangers, though historically Italian organizations like the Notes and the Players were already actively recruiting Latinos as members by then (PR or Mexican depending on the area; the Players mainly Mexicans of course, while the Notes had a lot of Puerto Ricans and a few Mexican members as well as random Arabs etc). Since the 80s, Latino and White gangs in Chicago basically dropped their old animosities and came to form one ecosystem (which at least in the prison system was also true for the Black gangs as well). So the distinction between a “White” and a “Latino” gang has blurred considerably since then (and they all also have some Black and other members as well). While historically White gangs today have many Latino members, there are also plenty of White members in Latino gangs (though this is nothing new in itself; I have it directly from a very old 1st Gen King that I used to know back in the day that the original LK section at Ohio and Homan had a bunch of Italian members back in the 50s, as that was a predominately Italian neighborhood then). This was a product of increasing assimilation and interaction. There aren’t really any White working class/ethnic enclaves left in Chicagoland, of course, not in any real way (and even when I was a kid they were rapidly declining), and Latinos have been interacting with Italians and other White ethnics for many years. Very similar to what one sees in the Bronx between PRs and Italians — a lot of socialization, intermarriages etc. It’s like what happened with the Italians, Irish, and Polish back in the day. Tough White kids today came up in an increasing Latino-influenced environment, and these lines will continue to further blur IMO.

[PolackTony]

Also worth noting that Sarno has been alleged to have been a member of the Park Boys in his youth, another predominately Italian gang in Cicero that basically went defunct a while back (similar to the Arch Dukes).

[PolackTony]

This was basically the youth uniform back in the day in Cicero/Berwyn, apart from gang sweaters for those who were gangbangers. One couldn’t overstate how much Cicero has changed since the 80s. All the kids used to rock these with their last names printed on the back:

[Waingro]

There aren’t really any White working class/ethnic enclaves left in Chicagoland, of course, not in any real way (and even when I was a kid they were rapidly declining),

What about on the Southside like Bridgeport, Canaryville or Mt Greenwood? Is Oaklawn too suburban?

[PolackTony]

There aren’t really any White working class/ethnic enclaves left in Chicagoland, of course, not in any real way (and even when I was a kid they were rapidly declining),

What about on the Southside like Bridgeport, Canaryville or Mt Greenwood? Is Oaklawn too suburban?

Yeah, I’d say that Mt Greenwood is still largely an Irish enclave and this is preserved by the fact that City employees have to live within the City limits, but it’s a small neighborhood and one of the few exceptions that I can think of. There are still some tough young Irish guys around there, or at least there were when I was still living in Chicago; I’m sure that they had some gang activity in that area as there was pretty much everywhere to some extent, but I’m not aware that there was much. Armour Sq/Bridgeport/Canaryville have seen a lot of Chinese and Mexican influx in recent years, so the Italian and Irish population is not what it was even in the 90s (Bridgeport has also seen a big influx of hipsters, which was an interesting culture clash when that first started happening in the 2000s lol). To the extent that there are still a number of old Italian families hanging on in Armour Square, that is the last vestige of the old school Italian communities (the “Patches” or “Old Neighborhoods”) left in the City; Grand Ave when I was a kid was but it’s almost all gone now save for a few businesses and a handful of families that own buildings (the area has seen very intense gentrification and a huge influx of newcomers, it’s basically a different world). There are still Italians on the NW Side by Harlem Ave, of course, and still a lot of businesses and social clubs etc but that area has had a major influx of Latinos.

Oak Lawn is probably still majority white, though I’m not sure how “working class” it is now. And it’s not that there aren’t street-type or working class whites left in Chicagoland — there’s many left but most of them are no longer in the City and a lot of the less affluent suburbs have had a lot of Latinos moving in, so those Whites that don’t move to farther suburbs or to another state will increasingly be part of the “blurring lines” that I noted above. But in terms of White Ethnic enclaves, that’s pretty much a thing of the past, unless you count Mt Greenwood, IMO.

Tangential, but when I was a kid I used to know an Irish SD from Canaryville who looked exactly like Alfred E Neuman. He was a complete nut, wild ass thug. Just imagine Alfred E Neuman in a White Sox cap “broke off” to the right talking about he just came out of the joint for pulling armed robberies lol.

[Ivan]

Tangential, but when I was a kid I used to know an Irish SD from Canaryville who looked exactly like Alfred E Neuman. He was a complete nut, wild ass thug. Just imagine Alfred E Neuman in a White Sox cap “broke off” to the right talking about he just came out of the joint for pulling armed robberies lol.

I knew a guy in Las Vegas around 2015, a friend of a friend, who sounds kind of like this in that he was the most ridiculous wigger I've ever been around and would say the goofiest wigger shit -- like one time he saw a hole in my sock and said "you need to switch out your sock game, bro" -- but at the same time he was a legitimately dangerous guy, involved in narcotics and gun running and shit like that.

[PolackTony]

Tangential, but when I was a kid I used to know an Irish SD from Canaryville who looked exactly like Alfred E Neuman. He was a complete nut, wild ass thug. Just imagine Alfred E Neuman in a White Sox cap “broke off” to the right talking about he just came out of the joint for pulling armed robberies lol.

I knew a guy in Las Vegas around 2015, a friend of a friend, who sounds kind of like this in that he was the most ridiculous wigger I've ever been around and would say the goofiest wigger shit -- like one time he saw a hole in my sock and said "you need to switch out your sock game, bro" -- but at the same time he was a legitimately dangerous guy, involved in narcotics and gun running and shit like that.

Lol. There are many characters in the world, I feel blessed to have know far more than my share in my time.

The guy I’m talking about wasn’t a “wigger” in the least though. None of the White gangbangers I knew as a kid were, as none of them talked like or imitated Blacks. They were just rough crazy Chicago White guys, which when I was a kid was still a very common thing. He was an Irish guy from Canaryville, that was more like Boondock Saints lol. Canaryville was like the “Southie” of Chicago.