Question about Carlo’s reign

[Nasabeak]

It honestly seems a lot less “great” than what it used to appear to be.

As early as 1963, he had Paul Castellano acting as sort of an emissary or street Boss unofficially. This became official in 1967 when he got named Acting Boss. This is only ten years into his reign.

At the same time, Neil Dellacroce had de facto control of up to 8 Captains.

Joe N. Gallo was helping run the family by 1973-1974. Jimmy Failla May have been as well

It honestly seems like Carlo really just sat back not long after becoming Boss and sort of handed off day to day governance of the Family to others; he was sort of a semi constitutional monarch, if you will, with these guys as his ministers running his “government.”

If someone could correct the record, I’m interested in hearing. But it seems like he started stepping back really early on.

[B.]

Joe Bonanno was biased but he said Gambino derived his power from Lucchese and stepped back when Lucchese died. Bonanno placed Lucchese's influence very high and definitely undervalued Gambino ("squirrel of a man") but there could be an element of truth to it.

People also cite him as the lead conspirator against Anastasia when we know it was Riccobono and Biondo's group that took the initiative and carried it out. Gambino had a rocky relationship with Anastasia -- I wouldn't be surprised if he was clued in before it happened and he was certainly aligned with Riccobono-Biondo afterward but it wasn't Gambino's plot.

[Nasabeak]

Joe Bonanno was biased but he said Gambino derived his power from Lucchese and stepped back when Lucchese died. Bonanno placed Lucchese's influence very high and definitely undervalued Gambino ("squirrel of a man") but there could be an element of truth to it.

People also cite him as the lead conspirator against Anastasia when we know it was Riccobono and Biondo's group that took the initiative and carried it out. Gambino had a rocky relationship with Anastasia -- I wouldn't be surprised if he was clued in before it happened and he was certainly aligned with Riccobono-Biondo afterward but it wasn't Gambino's plot.

Would you say that there’s a possibility that perhaps he was a bit of a figurehead in a sense - mainly concerned with Gambino relations with other families, while he actually had Paul, Neil, Paolo running the Family. Like, if you would, if Gambino was the Chairnan of the Board, these guys were like an unofficial handling things day to day for him? With then the Capos reporting to him?

Sorta like he was just the final word, the emissary to other families, basically —- do what Ya’s want, just kick the cash up and don’t make or kill anybody I don’t OK

As early as 73 Capos wanted him to step down because they felt he wasn’t doing anything but was still receiving tribute and that he wasn’t capable of handling things and it was “hurting their bread and butter.”

So it makes me wonder if he wasn’t a figurehead bolstered by Tommy Brown, Paul C, Neil, and Paolo

[Ivan]

Nothing to add but this is a very interesting contrast with the usual "Machiavellian Boss of Bosses" narrative.

[B.]

Joe Bonanno was biased but he said Gambino derived his power from Lucchese and stepped back when Lucchese died. Bonanno placed Lucchese's influence very high and definitely undervalued Gambino ("squirrel of a man") but there could be an element of truth to it.

People also cite him as the lead conspirator against Anastasia when we know it was Riccobono and Biondo's group that took the initiative and carried it out. Gambino had a rocky relationship with Anastasia -- I wouldn't be surprised if he was clued in before it happened and he was certainly aligned with Riccobono-Biondo afterward but it wasn't Gambino's plot.

Would you say that there’s a possibility that perhaps he was a bit of a figurehead in a sense - mainly concerned with Gambino relations with other families, while he actually had Paul, Neil, Paolo running the Family. Like, if you would, if Gambino was the Chairnan of the Board, these guys were like an unofficial handling things day to day for him? With then the Capos reporting to him?

Sorta like he was just the final word, the emissary to other families, basically —- do what Ya’s want, just kick the cash up and don’t make or kill anybody I don’t OK

As early as 73 Capos wanted him to step down because they felt he wasn’t doing anything but was still receiving tribute and that he wasn’t capable of handling things and it was “hurting their bread and butter.”

So it makes me wonder if he wasn’t a figurehead bolstered by Tommy Brown, Paul C, Neil, and Paolo

Gambino was a powerful boss / avugad with massive influence both in NYC and nationally but I do think a mythology has been created around him as a "boss of bosses" and Machiavellian mastermind, like Ivan said. Some people want to make Gambino's reign out to be some kind of "self help" routine where people can learn leadership life skills from him just because he talked about lions and foxes. The reality is more complex and interesting.

He definitely had significant influence over Sam DeCavalcante, Angelo Bruno, and Joe Colombo while managing a massive Family of his own so nothing can be taken away from him, it's just a matter of understanding how Cosa Nostra actually works and what a rappresentante is.

[Sullycantwell]

Joe Bonanno was biased but he said Gambino derived his power from Lucchese and stepped back when Lucchese died. Bonanno placed Lucchese's influence very high and definitely undervalued Gambino ("squirrel of a man") but there could be an element of truth to it.

People also cite him as the lead conspirator against Anastasia when we know it was Riccobono and Biondo's group that took the initiative and carried it out. Gambino had a rocky relationship with Anastasia -- I wouldn't be surprised if he was clued in before it happened and he was certainly aligned with Riccobono-Biondo afterward but it wasn't Gambino's plot.

In the Sonny Franzese book by S.J. Peddie, Franzese and Gambino were at a sit down and Franzese reached into his jacket for something and Gambino jumped to the floor because he thought he was gonna get clipped lol. Don't think there is anything to back that up though and Franzese himself mightve been the one to tell her that, but i cant remember for sure.

[B.]

Joe Bonanno was biased but he said Gambino derived his power from Lucchese and stepped back when Lucchese died. Bonanno placed Lucchese's influence very high and definitely undervalued Gambino ("squirrel of a man") but there could be an element of truth to it.

People also cite him as the lead conspirator against Anastasia when we know it was Riccobono and Biondo's group that took the initiative and carried it out. Gambino had a rocky relationship with Anastasia -- I wouldn't be surprised if he was clued in before it happened and he was certainly aligned with Riccobono-Biondo afterward but it wasn't Gambino's plot.

In the Sonny Franzese book by S.J. Peddie, Franzese and Gambino were at a sit down and Franzese reached into his jacket for something and Gambino jumped to the floor because he thought he was gonna get clipped lol. Don't think there is anything to back that up though and Franzese himself mightve been the one to tell her that, but i cant remember for sure.

Well Joe Bonanno would like that story at least. Not sure I buy what he said about Anastasia raising his hands to Gambino and him cringing in fear but there are at least CI accounts that show Gambino had a rough time under Anastasia.

[Nasabeak]

Joe Bonanno was biased but he said Gambino derived his power from Lucchese and stepped back when Lucchese died. Bonanno placed Lucchese's influence very high and definitely undervalued Gambino ("squirrel of a man") but there could be an element of truth to it.

People also cite him as the lead conspirator against Anastasia when we know it was Riccobono and Biondo's group that took the initiative and carried it out. Gambino had a rocky relationship with Anastasia -- I wouldn't be surprised if he was clued in before it happened and he was certainly aligned with Riccobono-Biondo afterward but it wasn't Gambino's plot.

Would you say that there’s a possibility that perhaps he was a bit of a figurehead in a sense - mainly concerned with Gambino relations with other families, while he actually had Paul, Neil, Paolo running the Family. Like, if you would, if Gambino was the Chairnan of the Board, these guys were like an unofficial handling things day to day for him? With then the Capos reporting to him?

Sorta like he was just the final word, the emissary to other families, basically —- do what Ya’s want, just kick the cash up and don’t make or kill anybody I don’t OK

As early as 73 Capos wanted him to step down because they felt he wasn’t doing anything but was still receiving tribute and that he wasn’t capable of handling things and it was “hurting their bread and butter.”

So it makes me wonder if he wasn’t a figurehead bolstered by Tommy Brown, Paul C, Neil, and Paolo

Gambino was a powerful boss / avugad with massive influence both in NYC and nationally but I do think a mythology has been created around him as a "boss of bosses" and Machiavellian mastermind, like Ivan said. Some people want to make Gambino's reign out to be some kind of "self help" routine where people can learn leadership life skills from him just because he talked about lions and foxes. The reality is more complex and interesting.

He definitely had significant influence over Sam DeCavalcante, Angelo Bruno, and Joe Colombo while managing a massive Family of his own so nothing can be taken away from him, it's just a matter of understanding how Cosa Nostra actually works and what a rappresentante is.

What it seems like he was a macro manager. Leave the nitty gritty to his unofficial panel of top guys. Like, Paul, Paolo, Joe N. Gallo, Neil, these guys were the guys doing the day to day shit.

Those top guys in turn managed the Capos for Carlo. Kept the peace. Any beefs they may have handled as long as the outcome was satisfactory to Carlo.

As long as the financial kick ups add up, as long as no one’s getting made or promoted or killed that he didn’t authorize and it ain’t the OK Corral, then these guys do what they want.

Meanwhile Carlo is focusing his energies on politics, expanding Gambino family power nationwide, etc, cementing alliances and so on with other families, working with Paul to expand the family’s legitimate horizons as well.

But I feel like to your average Soldier, Carlo was “The Boss” but Paul Castellano or Neil Dellacroce or Joe N. Gallo would be who a guy dealt with, answered to.

[SonnyBlackstein]

Whilst stories of his genius may be exaggerated, Id also disagree that his reign is overvalued.
He was boss, undisputed from 57 to 76. 20 years. This is a stunning achievement. Consider the tumultuous previous 3 decades for context.
Also keep in mind that during this time you had the Bananna wars AND the Columbo wars. And Gambino presided over the Commission the whole time.
He died at home in his bed.

I think it possible to overstate at times, his successes, but to understate his achievements, is I think, demonstrably an incorrect summation.

[Nasabeak]

Whilst stories of his genius may be exaggerated, Id also disagree that his reign is overvalued.
He was boss, undisputed from 57 to 76. 20 years. This is a stunning achievement. Consider the tumultuous previous 3 decades for context.
Also keep in mind that during this time you had the Bananna wars AND the Columbo wars. And Gambino presided over the Commission the whole time.
He died at home in his bed.

I think it possible to overstate at times, his successes, but to understate his achievements, is I think, demonstrably an incorrect summation.

Arguably he was only Boss in both rule and reign from 1957 to 1967. Paul was appointed Acting Boss in 1967, and from that point we see an increasing withdrawal from the governance of the Family. According to one report I have read, Carlo actually retired in full in the fall of 1975, turning day to day administration of the Family fully over to Paul, Joe N. Gallo, and Jimmy Failla. This is backed up by another report from 1976 which mentions how Capos were unhappy with how Gallo ran things for the previous year.

So you could say his active reign was from 1957 to 1967, with him increasingly taking more of an advisory role after that.

[SonnyBlackstein]

Whilst stories of his genius may be exaggerated, Id also disagree that his reign is overvalued.
He was boss, undisputed from 57 to 76. 20 years. This is a stunning achievement. Consider the tumultuous previous 3 decades for context.
Also keep in mind that during this time you had the Bananna wars AND the Columbo wars. And Gambino presided over the Commission the whole time.
He died at home in his bed.

I think it possible to overstate at times, his successes, but to understate his achievements, is I think, demonstrably an incorrect summation.

Arguably he was only Boss in both rule and reign from 1957 to 1967. Paul was appointed Acting Boss in 1967, and from that point we see an increasing withdrawal from the governance of the Family. According to one report I have read, Carlo actually retired in full in the fall of 1975, turning day to day administration of the Family fully over to Paul, Joe N. Gallo, and Jimmy Failla. This is backed up by another report from 1976 which mentions how Capos were unhappy with how Gallo ran things for the previous year.

So you could say his active reign was from 1957 to 1967, with him increasingly taking more of an advisory role after that.

I think this is a HUGE leap of faith.
Appointing Paul as AB DOES NOT, at all, in any capacity = Carlo failing/withdrawing etc to run the family.

Barney had Petey red as AB, Chin multiple AB's etc etc. Carlo appointing Paul as AB in 67, literally means nothing relating to Carlo's reign.

Concluding that Carlo was a mere 'advisor' after 67 is, all due respect, bullshit.

[Little_Al1991]

Carlo was great as boss.The Gambino’s were the most powerful family back when he was the boss.He had Philly with him and even put Joe Colombo in as boss, if I remember correctly.
I would like to know why he decided to make Castellano the AB of the family.He had a great run and the family prospered during his time.

[Little_Al1991]

Interesting thread

[HairyKnuckles]

Keep in mind that Carlo Gambino was made provisional boss only, after the death of Anastasia and that he was appointed by the Commission. Bonanno and Lucchese were extremely satisfied with this choise, Bonanno because he thought he could control him and Lucchese because he was in law (or very soon to be). With this in mind, one can not help to wonder about Gambino´s strenght when he was percieved as someone who could be controlled. Gambino did not have the full control of his Family which also can be described as weakness. With that said, Gambino was as smart as any of the other bosses and survived by cunningness. Although we don´t have details, Gambino himself certainly had the skill set to manipulate others.

[Villain]

For what its worth...Giancana allegedly respected both Gambino and Lucchese, although Accardo didnt mention Carlo while explaining to Giancana on who were Chicagos allies on the commission during the late 50s or in 1957.

Edit: it seems things changed since Accardo was close with Bonanno but when the problem in New York occurred, Giancana pushed for Bonannos murder and maybe thats why he became close with Carlo and the Lukes