Why did the killing stop?

[jimmybeam12]

Hi all, first-time poster here.

Got a question for the mob archaeologists around here. Why did the mob stopped with the hits? Or rather, what was the underlying process?

It's been well established that LCN now has pretty much stopped killing people, shelving guys instead. This trend probably started somewhere in the 00's (after Colombo wars, Massino trial, etc.; was the Meldish hit the last sanctioned one?)

While it's pretty clear to me what the overall driving forces behind this trend were (too much jail time, too high probably of getting caught, not enough money around to gain anything, i.e., the "business case" of killings no longer holds), I wonder whether this happened as a "bottom-up" process with its own natural momentum or whether there were ever any deliberate "top-down" decisions on this, be it within or even across families.

Are there any hints to the latter? Or should we just assume that for each instance for which a hit would have been an option previously, the individual leaderships now regularly decide against it, after weighing all the "pros" and "cons" of the individual case?

e.g., it's hard to imagine that there was ever a directive "no killing of rats".

Any insights on this would be greatly appreciated.

[Shellackhead]

RICO. It is so powerful it can take down an entire crew because of the way murders are carried out. Most murders are carried out with the upper echelon’s knowledge. So that right there just destroys a crew/administration. Take The Meldish murder for example. Also, heat.

[Little_Al1991]

It hasn’t completely stopped.
In 2017, 8 members of the Lucchese Bronx Faction were about to be hit if Matty Madonna refused to step down.
In 2018, John Pennisi was almost killed due to false rumours surrounding him cooperating, which were not true
The pennisi situation is a little different because he was alleged to be an informant and that’s just something that guys in the life have to react to, unless it’s to late and the witnesses testify

[johnny_scootch]

It hasn’t completely stopped.
In 2017, 8 members of the Lucchese Bronx Faction were about to be hit if Matty Madonna refused to step down.

It was Crea who they wanted to step down. We know from Pennisi that by the time DeSantis, Dellorusso, Papagni and Zappola meet with Crea to show him the letter Amuso sent, Madonna had already been taken down from acting Boss because of what he did to Bobby Spinelli.

And let’s he honest there is no way they were ever killing 8 guys. Maybe they’d get one or two if they were lucky.

[Etna]

In short. If LCN continued to kill people at the same rate they did in the 80s and 90s, the organization would cease to exist. There are not enough young recruits joining the life. Look at the age of the members. 50s are young to be a made guy. Many of the Colombos for example, are in their 70s and 80s. Plus, technology aiding law enforcement has become a major liability to them, accompanied by RICO. The families have died out in the 2000s in my opinion if the murder rate continued.

[Wiseguy]

There was supposedly an edict sent down from the bosses during the 1990s (if I remember right) that put at least a temporary stop to sanctioned murders. That said, generally speaking, the common murders once seen have ceased for the reasons listed above.

[JCB1977]

LCN has lost most of their power. Most of their vast resources as well. No more Labor Racketeering. The amount of political power they once had is a thing of the past. Without that political power, their operations cannot run without interference. Killing brings unwanted attention...plus now, there is DNA evidence and video cameras on every street corner and small business. Additionally, cell towers are demonstrating where smart phones are pinging and some of these younger mobsters actually have social media pages. Philly is a prime example of pure stupidity. The landscape of OC has changed. It will cease to exist as a traditional mafia at some point in the future.

[scagghiuni]

it is the same strategy developed by organized crime in Italy, limiting the number of homicides as much as possible to face the repression of the state after the massacres of the early 1990s

[Pogo The Clown]

Simple. They have grown old, soft and timid. They have lost their balls. A reflection of the White male in Amurrica. Gangland killings are still happening with regularity in 2023 (most go unsolved) but it is other groups that are doing them. Just recently the Mexican cartels whacked out an entire family of 6 in Commiefornia, including 2 kids (one of them a little baby). That kind of vicious brutality instills fear and commands respect in the underworld.


Pogo

[mr white]

Simple. They have grown old, soft and timid. They have lost their balls. A reflection of the White male in Amurrica. Gangland killings are still happening with regularity in 2023 (most go unsolved) but it is other groups that are doing them. Just recently the Mexican cartels whacked out an entire family of 6 in Commiefornia, including 2 kids (one of them a little baby). That kind of vicious brutality instills fear and commands respect in the underworld.


Pogo

Send in the Marines!

I agreed with something every single poster said above on this page - RICO, DNA tech, cell phone towers, cameras.

Thats what stopped the mob and white men in general from killing in the USA. Any OC hit that happens now - the guys who ordered it are findable right away. The gang murders go unsolved because of the size of that demographic and no traceable business interests that make the finding part harder.

But the main difference in North America between the USA and Canada, where they still have guys getting hit regulalry inside and in front of Italian Cafe's, restaurants, and nice hotels on camera - IS RICO.

[SonnyBlackstein]

Nothing stops.

Mickey Nose new T.

[furiofromnaples]

Simple. They have grown old, soft and timid. They have lost their balls. A reflection of the White male in Amurrica. Gangland killings are still happening with regularity in 2023 (most go unsolved) but it is other groups that are doing them. Just recently the Mexican cartels whacked out an entire family of 6 in Commiefornia, including 2 kids (one of them a little baby). That kind of vicious brutality instills fear and commands respect in the underworld.


Pogo

I think that we have to see the matter from another angle.
The objectives of a mobsters is to made money and enjoy it. The mob search moneymaker not killers.
The members of the other gang member they grew up in such poor neighborhoods that going to prison is an improvement for them, the same thing for Mexicans who can make the killers cross the border to carry out the massacre and then come back.
In the 1990s Provenzano adopted the "submarine strategy" and saved Cosa Nostra but dont stop killing,yes to kill was the last decision but if necessary they whack the guy and bury the body.
No body no crime.
Who know if the US mob killed someone and buried the body but anyway can equiparade the blacks and the mexicans with the mafia.
Its a different ways for be a criminal.

[Amershire_Ed]

The thing with cartels and many other street gangs is they have an endless supply of crash test dummies willing to throw their lives away. Many with zero intention of ever seeing the age of 35. They will literally never run out of these kids.

Just compare indictments. Take your average mafia RICO case and compare it to a Latin Kings cell or some Blood set. The oldest gang member in some Bloods indictment is usually like 35-40, with the majority of his co-defendants being 30 and under. You look at a mafia RICO and sometimes the *youngest* guy being charged is 35-40, many times even older than that.

[Amershire_Ed]

Simple. They have grown old, soft and timid. They have lost their balls. A reflection of the White male in Amurrica. Gangland killings are still happening with regularity in 2023 (most go unsolved) but it is other groups that are doing them. Just recently the Mexican cartels whacked out an entire family of 6 in Commiefornia, including 2 kids (one of them a little baby). That kind of vicious brutality instills fear and commands respect in the underworld.


Pogo

I think that we have to see the matter from another angle.
The objectives of a mobsters is to made money and enjoy it. The mob search moneymaker not killers.
The members of the other gang member they grew up in such poor neighborhoods that going to prison is an improvement for them, the same thing for Mexicans who can make the killers cross the border to carry out the massacre and then come back.
In the 1990s Provenzano adopted the "submarine strategy" and saved Cosa Nostra but dont stop killing,yes to kill was the last decision but if necessary they whack the guy and bury the body.
No body no crime.
Who know if the US mob killed someone and buried the body but anyway can equiparade the blacks and the mexicans with the mafia.
Its a different ways for be a criminal.

While a lot of what you said is true I don’t think it always used to be that way. I think up thru the late 90s, early 2000s, the majority of street gangs were formed and came together around neighborhood boundaries and the drug trade. And making money was the central goal of the gang. I’m not saying every gang member was a drug dealer, but the gangs themselves were allowed to organize and flourish because of the proceeds they made from selling drugs.

In 1997, in a poor black or Latin neighborhood, the biggest drug dealer with all the money was *the man*. That’s who all the little neighborhood kids looked up to. That’s the lifestyle rappers emulated and rapped about.

But now, in 2023, a lot of these kids idolize the shooters, not the money makers. Gangs are formed with no intention of ever making any money. I swear to Christ these kids are more impressed by someone that has killed 2 ppl than they are with someone who made $300,000 selling cocaine last year.

[Guest]

Nothing stops.

Mickey Nose new T.

You are a moron