PolackTony wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 1:07 am
These Chicago/Buffalo guys were privileged, in that they didn’t even have to change their accent when they moved lol.
Totally different accents
Nah, they’re eerily similar. Chicago was originally settled by people from Upstate NY. I’ve met people from Buffalo (and Rochester) who I would’ve swore on my mother were Chicagoans. It’s not just me saying it. Linguists class both cities as having the same “Inland Northern” accent.
Nah. They arent same at all. Tons of nuances. Maybe it was the same a long time ago. Ive lived in Buffalo many many years. Been to Chicago many times and they are different if you pay attention. Same with Rochester/Syracuse. Not sure about detroit. Regardless what "linguists" say
Goes in to much greater detail from people who actually live in these places.
It’s not a 1920s analysis. Carl Paladino could have stepped right out of Melrose Park. Labov’s work was done in the 70s, when regional accents like this were stronger, but they obviously haven’t changed since then to the point that they are “totally different”.
I’m also someone who has “lived in these places”. I’m a native Chicagoan and have travelled extensively in Upstate NY. Even Syracuse sounds a lot like Chicago. Interacting with “white ethnic” working class types (middle class and transplants often have much weaker accents) I’ve noticed the obvious similarities for years before I was aware that it was rooted in historic migration patterns. I’ve also known people from Buffalo who fully agree with me.
City-data posts mean little. There are also people online who swear that people in Brooklyn and the Bronx have different accents, which is horseshit.
Totally disagree. Syracuse moreso than anywhere listed sounds NOTHING like Chicago or Buffalo. Paladino definitely doesnt sound like hes from Chicago in my opinion. Met him many times and seen interviews. The migration youre referring to may hold weight in the Erie Canal era.
City Data is a forum just like this one that has people exchanging there experiences, in this case about accents.
Heres a mafia example/comparison. Listen to the Calabrese interview with Franzese, thats Chicago. Then listen to Barstool's interview with Todaro, thats Buffalo.
Bringing this back to 1963 Buffalo, maybe back then they were the same accents but definitely not now and not what I hear every day.
We can agree to disagree.
We can agree that for Roy Carlisi, it was almost certainly the same accent.
And i would agree with that based on the era.
The accents will be virtually gone soon anyways as new waves of non white immigrants shape all these cities and suburbs
PolackTony wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 1:07 am
These Chicago/Buffalo guys were privileged, in that they didn’t even have to change their accent when they moved lol.
Totally different accents
Nah, they’re eerily similar. Chicago was originally settled by people from Upstate NY. I’ve met people from Buffalo (and Rochester) who I would’ve swore on my mother were Chicagoans. It’s not just me saying it. Linguists class both cities as having the same “Inland Northern” accent.
Nah. They arent same at all. Tons of nuances. Maybe it was the same a long time ago. Ive lived in Buffalo many many years. Been to Chicago many times and they are different if you pay attention. Same with Rochester/Syracuse. Not sure about detroit. Regardless what "linguists" say
Goes in to much greater detail from people who actually live in these places.
It’s not a 1920s analysis. Carl Paladino could have stepped right out of Melrose Park. Labov’s work was done in the 70s, when regional accents like this were stronger, but they obviously haven’t changed since then to the point that they are “totally different”.
I’m also someone who has “lived in these places”. I’m a native Chicagoan and have travelled extensively in Upstate NY. Even Syracuse sounds a lot like Chicago. Interacting with “white ethnic” working class types (middle class and transplants often have much weaker accents) I’ve noticed the obvious similarities for years before I was aware that it was rooted in historic migration patterns. I’ve also known people from Buffalo who fully agree with me.
City-data posts mean little. There are also people online who swear that people in Brooklyn and the Bronx have different accents, which is horseshit.
Totally disagree. Syracuse moreso than anywhere listed sounds NOTHING like Chicago or Buffalo. Paladino definitely doesnt sound like hes from Chicago in my opinion. Met him many times and seen interviews. The migration youre referring to may hold weight in the Erie Canal era.
City Data is a forum just like this one that has people exchanging there experiences, in this case about accents.
Heres a mafia example/comparison. Listen to the Calabrese interview with Franzese, thats Chicago. Then listen to Barstool's interview with Todaro, thats Buffalo.
Bringing this back to 1963 Buffalo, maybe back then they were the same accents but definitely not now and not what I hear every day.
We can agree to disagree.
We can agree that for Roy Carlisi, it was almost certainly the same accent.
And i would agree with that based on the era.
The accents will be virtually gone soon anyways as new waves of non white immigrants shape all these cities and suburbs
100% true. That and transplants. Once in a while in NYC, one will meet someone in their 90s that still says “boids” for birds. In a couple of years, there won’t be anyone left with that old “Honeymooners” accent.
In Chicago, they aren’t making any more Frank Cullottas.
"Hey, hey, hey — this is America, baby! Survival of the fittest.”
PolackTony wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 1:07 am
These Chicago/Buffalo guys were privileged, in that they didn’t even have to change their accent when they moved lol.
Totally different accents
Nah, they’re eerily similar. Chicago was originally settled by people from Upstate NY. I’ve met people from Buffalo (and Rochester) who I would’ve swore on my mother were Chicagoans. It’s not just me saying it. Linguists class both cities as having the same “Inland Northern” accent.
Nah. They arent same at all. Tons of nuances. Maybe it was the same a long time ago. Ive lived in Buffalo many many years. Been to Chicago many times and they are different if you pay attention. Same with Rochester/Syracuse. Not sure about detroit. Regardless what "linguists" say
Goes in to much greater detail from people who actually live in these places.
It’s not a 1920s analysis. Carl Paladino could have stepped right out of Melrose Park. Labov’s work was done in the 70s, when regional accents like this were stronger, but they obviously haven’t changed since then to the point that they are “totally different”.
I’m also someone who has “lived in these places”. I’m a native Chicagoan and have travelled extensively in Upstate NY. Even Syracuse sounds a lot like Chicago. Interacting with “white ethnic” working class types (middle class and transplants often have much weaker accents) I’ve noticed the obvious similarities for years before I was aware that it was rooted in historic migration patterns. I’ve also known people from Buffalo who fully agree with me.
City-data posts mean little. There are also people online who swear that people in Brooklyn and the Bronx have different accents, which is horseshit.
Totally disagree. Syracuse moreso than anywhere listed sounds NOTHING like Chicago or Buffalo. Paladino definitely doesnt sound like hes from Chicago in my opinion. Met him many times and seen interviews. The migration youre referring to may hold weight in the Erie Canal era.
City Data is a forum just like this one that has people exchanging there experiences, in this case about accents.
Heres a mafia example/comparison. Listen to the Calabrese interview with Franzese, thats Chicago. Then listen to Barstool's interview with Todaro, thats Buffalo.
Bringing this back to 1963 Buffalo, maybe back then they were the same accents but definitely not now and not what I hear every day.
We can agree to disagree.
We can agree that for Roy Carlisi, it was almost certainly the same accent.
And i would agree with that based on the era.
The accents will be virtually gone soon anyways as new waves of non white immigrants shape all these cities and suburbs
100% true. That and transplants. Once in a while in NYC, one will meet someone in their 90s that still says “boids” for birds. In a couple of years, there won’t be anyone left with that old “Honeymooners” accent.
In Chicago, they aren’t making any more Frank Cullottas.
Definitely. Riverside, South and West Side in Buffalo all hard to even know what accent people have. Street slang for the younger blacks, refugees from all over the world, make your head spin. Cheektowaga is like that too albeit to a lesser degree. South Buffalo, Lackawanna, Blasdell, Kenmore, North Buffalo,Tonawanda, Amherst is where you still get the traditional Buffalonian accent in my opinion but even that is fading into a blend of everything. Television, music, social media influences the changes imo.
Probable he was just an associate/friend but Frank Antonacci was extremely close to Maggadino and there is a picture of the two hanging up at the Como.
I found their respective entries in the FBI dead list and Albert Agueci, Angelo Conte and Salvatore Rizzo are all carried as soldiers, so I've bumped them to confirmed.
Updated membership list:
Confirmed members
Buffalo/ Niagara Falls area:
Stefano Magaddino (Boss)
Fred Randaccio (Underboss)
Roy Carlisi (Captain?)
Pasquale Natarelli (Captain?)
Benjamin Nicoletti (Captain?)
Joseph Bongiorno
Samuel Bonito
Alfred Caci
Joseph Caci
Thomas Callea
John Cammilleri
Stephen Cannarozzo
Charles Cassaro
Domenick D'Agostino
Salvatore DiCarlo (living in Miami, possibly transferred)
Joseph Fino
Nicholas Fino
Salvatore Frangiamore
Joseph LaBarbara
James Laduca
Samuel Lagattuta
Antonino Magaddino
Peter A. Magaddino
Peter J. Magaddino (born 1906, possibly transferred to Bonanno family)
Peter J. Magaddino (born 1923)
Dominic Mantell
Salvatore Miano
Charles Montana
John Montana
Ernest Panebianco
Anthony Perna
Salvatore Pieri
Pascal Politano
Anthony Privatura
Victor Randaccio
Salvatore Rangatore
Angelo Rizzo
Dominick Romeo
John Sacco
Salvatore Salli
Daniel Sansanese, Sr.
Edward Scillia (died March 1963)
Vincent Scro
Benedetto Spano
Michael Tascarella
Joseph Todaro, Sr.
Richard Todaro
Rochester:
Jake Russo (Captain?)
Samuel Amico
Anthony Arena
August Giannavola
Rene Piccarreto
Samuel Russotti
Pasquale Sciortino
Richard Tribunella
Utica:
Joseph Falcone (Captain)
Sylvester Battaglia
Anthony Damiano
Anthony De Stefano
Salvatore Falcone
Serafino Grio
Rosario Mancuso
John Melito
Frank Pelli
Frank Russo
Joseph Sabella
Erie, PA:
Dominic Adiutori
James Salamone
Canada:
Albert Agueci (murdered 1961)
Calogero Bordonaro
Harry Bordonaro
Transferred to other families:
Joseph DiCarlo (Colombo)
Frank Valenti (Pittsburgh)
===
Listed as suspected at the time, confirmed later (possibly inducted later)
Buffalo/ Niagara Falls:
Paul Briandi
Salvatore Rizzo
Utica:
Angelo Conte
Anthony Falange
Samuel Farrari
James Fiore
Canada:
Vito Agueci
Felix Borelli
John Papalia
===
Suspected members
Buffalo/ Niagara Falls:
Salvatore Brocato (living in Arizona)
Joseph Fiorella
Nicholas Rizzo
James Vona
Rochester:
Pasquale Monachino
Saverio Monachino
Joseph Valenti (possibly Pittsburgh family member)
Stanley Valenti
Utica:
Joseph Leone
Anthony Scro
Charles Scro
Joseph Scro
Angelo Thomas
Canada:
Charles Cipolla
Daniel Gasbarrini
Anthony Iati
Louis Innazella
Giacomo Luppino
Albert Volpe
Eugene Volpe
Frank Volpe
John Volpe
Paul Volpe
'You don't go crucifying people outside a church; not on Good Friday.'
chin_gigante wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:30 am
I found their respective entries in the FBI dead list and Albert Agueci, Angelo Conte and Salvatore Rizzo are all carried as soldiers, so I've bumped them to confirmed.
Updated membership list:
Confirmed members
Buffalo/ Niagara Falls area:
Stefano Magaddino (Boss)
Fred Randaccio (Underboss)
Roy Carlisi (Captain?)
Pasquale Natarelli (Captain?)
Benjamin Nicoletti (Captain?)
Joseph Bongiorno
Samuel Bonito
Alfred Caci
Joseph Caci
Thomas Callea
John Cammilleri
Stephen Cannarozzo
Charles Cassaro
Domenick D'Agostino
Salvatore DiCarlo (living in Miami, possibly transferred)
Joseph Fino
Nicholas Fino
Salvatore Frangiamore
Joseph LaBarbara
James Laduca
Samuel Lagattuta
Antonino Magaddino
Peter A. Magaddino
Peter J. Magaddino (born 1906, possibly transferred to Bonanno family)
Peter J. Magaddino (born 1923)
Dominic Mantell
Salvatore Miano
Charles Montana
John Montana
Ernest Panebianco
Anthony Perna
Salvatore Pieri
Pascal Politano
Anthony Privatura
Victor Randaccio
Salvatore Rangatore
Angelo Rizzo
Dominick Romeo
John Sacco
Salvatore Salli
Daniel Sansanese, Sr.
Edward Scillia (died March 1963)
Vincent Scro
Benedetto Spano
Michael Tascarella
Joseph Todaro, Sr.
Richard Todaro
Rochester:
Jake Russo (Captain?)
Samuel Amico
Anthony Arena
August Giannavola
Rene Piccarreto
Samuel Russotti
Pasquale Sciortino
Richard Tribunella
Utica:
Joseph Falcone (Captain)
Sylvester Battaglia
Anthony Damiano
Anthony De Stefano
Salvatore Falcone
Serafino Grio
Rosario Mancuso
John Melito
Frank Pelli
Frank Russo
Joseph Sabella
Erie, PA:
Dominic Adiutori
James Salamone
Canada:
Albert Agueci (murdered 1961)
Calogero Bordonaro
Harry Bordonaro
Transferred to other families:
Joseph DiCarlo (Colombo)
Frank Valenti (Pittsburgh)
===
Listed as suspected at the time, confirmed later (possibly inducted later)
Buffalo/ Niagara Falls:
Paul Briandi
Salvatore Rizzo
Utica:
Angelo Conte
Anthony Falange
Samuel Farrari
James Fiore
Canada:
Vito Agueci
Felix Borelli
John Papalia
===
Suspected members
Buffalo/ Niagara Falls:
Salvatore Brocato (living in Arizona)
Joseph Fiorella
Nicholas Rizzo
James Vona
Rochester:
Pasquale Monachino
Saverio Monachino
Joseph Valenti (possibly Pittsburgh family member)
Stanley Valenti
Utica:
Joseph Leone
Anthony Scro
Charles Scro
Joseph Scro
Angelo Thomas
Canada:
Charles Cipolla
Daniel Gasbarrini
Anthony Iati
Louis Innazella
Giacomo Luppino
Albert Volpe
Eugene Volpe
Frank Volpe
John Volpe
Paul Volpe
It's a new morning in America... fresh, vital. The old cynicism is gone. We have faith in our leaders. We're optimistic as to what becomes of it all. It really boils down to our ability to accept. We don't need pessimism. There are no limits.
Do you have anymore info on these two? I had a look on Mary Ferrell but couldn't see anything for them.
===
On a side note, does anyone know if there any other Rochester guys who pop up as made in the early 70s? I know they started inducting their own guys after they broke off but are there any I haven't listed who were confirmed or suspected Buffalo members?
'You don't go crucifying people outside a church; not on Good Friday.'
Do you have anymore info on these two? I had a look on Mary Ferrell but couldn't see anything for them.
===
On a side note, does anyone know if there any other Rochester guys who pop up as made in the early 70s? I know they started inducting their own guys after they broke off but are there any I haven't listed who were confirmed or suspected Buffalo members?
From the FBI website on Massaro...
The Buffalo Division’s successes against organized crime continued to mount. Agents broke up a Mafia-run burglary ring, recovering $100,000 in furs and seizing $4 million in assets for unpaid taxes. They also arrested Salvatore Pieri for interstate jewel theft and later investigated him for jury tampering in the trial arising from his case. In the 1970s, Buffalo investigators arrested Magaddino boss Joseph Todaro; Buffalino boss Russell Buffalino; racketeer Frank Valenti; and Benjamin Nicolleti, Jr., who controlled Niagara gambling operations. Agents also coordinated raids with local authorities, arresting Angelo Massaro for bookmaking and John Sacco on murder charges—in the process thwarting a million-dollar burglary Sacco was planning.
As far as Carcone....
He has/had been on a respectable posters (Scarpo?) chart for years going back years. Indicted for enterprise corruption in being a leader in a criminal organization. Ran bookmaking for decades in Utica/Rome. Implied as being a mafia member by locals for the longest time.
PolackTony wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 1:07 am
These Chicago/Buffalo guys were privileged, in that they didn’t even have to change their accent when they moved lol.
Totally different accents
Nah, they’re eerily similar. Chicago was originally settled by people from Upstate NY. I’ve met people from Buffalo (and Rochester) who I would’ve swore on my mother were Chicagoans. It’s not just me saying it. Linguists class both cities as having the same “Inland Northern” accent.
Nah. They arent same at all. Tons of nuances. Maybe it was the same a long time ago. Ive lived in Buffalo many many years. Been to Chicago many times and they are different if you pay attention. Same with Rochester/Syracuse. Not sure about detroit. Regardless what "linguists" say
Goes in to much greater detail from people who actually live in these places.
It’s not a 1920s analysis. Carl Paladino could have stepped right out of Melrose Park. Labov’s work was done in the 70s, when regional accents like this were stronger, but they obviously haven’t changed since then to the point that they are “totally different”.
I’m also someone who has “lived in these places”. I’m a native Chicagoan and have travelled extensively in Upstate NY. Even Syracuse sounds a lot like Chicago. Interacting with “white ethnic” working class types (middle class and transplants often have much weaker accents) I’ve noticed the obvious similarities for years before I was aware that it was rooted in historic migration patterns. I’ve also known people from Buffalo who fully agree with me.
City-data posts mean little. There are also people online who swear that people in Brooklyn and the Bronx have different accents, which is horseshit.
Not sure if youve met him or are referring to his interviews but there is a great story about him in the next book to come out of Buffalo.
Interesting tidbit. The same lawyer who represented Minicone in the Carcone case which saw all them getting fed time represented my grandfather in an odometer roll back case that led to him losing the car dealership.
chin_gigante wrote: ↑Tue Jan 03, 2023 1:23 pmAlso got a start on breaking down the information on some of the confirmed members as of 1963.
===
NAME: Pascal Frank Politano
ALIAS: Pasquale, Pat, Baggy Pants, Lucky Pat, Pantaloons
DOB: 12/12/1921; POB: Buffalo, NY
DOD: 6/1/2001; POD:
FATHER: Mauro Politano; MOTHER: Angela Melucci
SPOUSE: Patricia Groh
OCCUPATION: Electrician (Buffalo Electric) (1950)
ORIGINS: Muro Lucano, Potenza, Basilicata
RESIDENCE: 57 Days Park, Buffalo, NY
FBI: 270299A; BPD: 62255
Whoa, this I didn't know.
Multiple Chicago members (the Cerones, Tony Capezio, and Smokes Aloisio) were Muresi, as was Genovese member Domenico "Swats Mulligan" Ciaffone. Additionally, the parents of Carmine Persico Sr were from nearby San Fele, Potenza. Neighboring towns such as Baragiano and Balvano, Potenza, and Ricigliano, Salerno, produced other Chicago members and associates.
"Hey, hey, hey — this is America, baby! Survival of the fittest.”
chin_gigante wrote: ↑Tue Jan 03, 2023 1:23 pm
NAME: Pascal Frank Politano
ALIAS: Pasquale, Pat, Baggy Pants, Lucky Pat, Pantaloons
DOB: 12/12/1921; POB: Buffalo, NY
DOD: 6/1/2001; POD:
FATHER: Mauro Politano; MOTHER: Angela Melucci
SPOUSE: Patricia Groh
OCCUPATION: Electrician (Buffalo Electric) (1950)
ORIGINS: Muro Lucano, Potenza, Basilicata
RESIDENCE: 57 Days Park, Buffalo, NY
FBI: 270299A; BPD: 62255
Whoa, this I didn't know.
Multiple Chicago members (the Cerones, Tony Capezio, and Smokes Aloisio) were Muresi, as was Genovese member Domenico "Swats Mulligan" Ciaffone. Additionally, the parents of Carmine Persico Sr were from nearby San Fele, Potenza. Neighboring towns such as Baragiano and Balvano, Potenza, and Ricigliano, Salerno, produced other Chicago members and associates.
For Politano, I was able to find passenger manifests for both his father and his mother with their last residences being in Muro Lucano.
Mauro Politano manifest.jpg
Angela Melucci manifest.jpg
Though when I found what I believe to be Mauro Politano's WWI draft his birthplace was hard for me to make out but I believe it says somewhere in Naples:
005262555_05048.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
'You don't go crucifying people outside a church; not on Good Friday.'
If I had to guess, the WWI registration card you found for a Mauro Politano might have been incorrectly written by the registrar as something along the lines of Murozau, which is how MyHeritage shows the same record, but there is no such place in all of Italy.
What is more likely is that this Politano gave his POB as Mugnano di Napoli or Marano di Napoli (or another town altogether?), both of which are comuni in what was previously known as Provincia di Napoli, now known as Città metropolitana di Napoli.
