Sicilian Zips that flipped

[CabriniGreen]

Correct. And most of those lumped into the "Sicilian faction" category are actually Americans. And most of those who were actually born in Italy/Sicily came over here as children or civilians and had no involvement with the Sciilain Mafia over there.


Pogo

This is actually something I've come to challenge recently. A lot of the " Sicilian faction" is similar to how in Canada they describe " Calabrian faction". It's like they mistake ethnic identity for formal affiliations......

[JeremyTheJew]

Correct. And most of those lumped into the "Sicilian faction" category are actually Americans. And most of those who were actually born in Italy/Sicily came over here as children or civilians and had no involvement with the Sciilain Mafia over there.


Pogo

This is actually something I've come to challenge recently. A lot of the " Sicilian faction" is similar to how in Canada they describe " Calabrian faction". It's like they mistake ethnic identity for formal affiliations......

So basically ur saying in Canada the calabrians were really born in Canada and/or immigrated very early??

Interesting bc iv always assumed that they came there purposely for the drug trade

[CabriniGreen]

Correct. And most of those lumped into the "Sicilian faction" category are actually Americans. And most of those who were actually born in Italy/Sicily came over here as children or civilians and had no involvement with the Sciilain Mafia over there.


Pogo

This is actually something I've come to challenge recently. A lot of the " Sicilian faction" is similar to how in Canada they describe " Calabrian faction". It's like they mistake ethnic identity for formal affiliations......

So basically ur saying in Canada the calabrians were really born in Canada and/or immigrated very early??

Interesting bc iv always assumed that they came there purposely for the drug trade

This what I mean Jeremy. They all get lumped together. Like I was thinking specifically the Scoppas, but see how you automatically referenced Siderno? The Ndrangheta? This is exactly what I mean....

[JeremyTheJew]

Correct. And most of those lumped into the "Sicilian faction" category are actually Americans. And most of those who were actually born in Italy/Sicily came over here as children or civilians and had no involvement with the Sciilain Mafia over there.


Pogo

This is actually something I've come to challenge recently. A lot of the " Sicilian faction" is similar to how in Canada they describe " Calabrian faction". It's like they mistake ethnic identity for formal affiliations......

So basically ur saying in Canada the calabrians were really born in Canada and/or immigrated very early??

Interesting bc iv always assumed that they came there purposely for the drug trade

This what I mean Jeremy. They all get lumped together. Like I was thinking specifically the Scoppas, but see how you automatically referenced Siderno? The Ndrangheta? This is exactly what I mean....

Would be interesting to see breakdowns of who really came from where up there

Canada is the last wild frontier that I wonder if will ever start a RICO like charge

[Pogo The Clown]

Yeah didn't Calabro immigrate here as a little kid? Little more than a toddler if I'm not mistaken.


Pogo

Yeah, Chicago boss Johnny Apes Monteleone was born in Sambuca and immigrated to Chicago as a little kid. No sense in describing a guy like that as a “zip”, though it’s historically interesting to note his birth, as well as keep in mind that it could have put him in a position to have closer personal contacts via relatives to people back in Sicily than a guy who was third gen American.

The latter point also relates to the notion of “zip factions” in the NYC Families. As people point out, some of these guys immigrated while young (or were even US born), and certainly weren’t “zips” themselves in the sense of guys who came to the US with pre-existing affiliations to the mafia in Sicily. But, the notion of “Sicilian” or “zip” factions points more toward identity and social networks, and thus guys who came as kids or were born here to parents who were first gen immigrants are still positioned within those immigrant-centered social and community networks in a different way than more Americanized guys.

It's so far removed by now, Tonto's a closer cousin.


Pogo

This was Uncle Junior for those who didn't get it.


Pogo

[PolackTony]

Yeah didn't Calabro immigrate here as a little kid? Little more than a toddler if I'm not mistaken.


Pogo

Yeah, Chicago boss Johnny Apes Monteleone was born in Sambuca and immigrated to Chicago as a little kid. No sense in describing a guy like that as a “zip”, though it’s historically interesting to note his birth, as well as keep in mind that it could have put him in a position to have closer personal contacts via relatives to people back in Sicily than a guy who was third gen American.

The latter point also relates to the notion of “zip factions” in the NYC Families. As people point out, some of these guys immigrated while young (or were even US born), and certainly weren’t “zips” themselves in the sense of guys who came to the US with pre-existing affiliations to the mafia in Sicily. But, the notion of “Sicilian” or “zip” factions points more toward identity and social networks, and thus guys who came as kids or were born here to parents who were first gen immigrants are still positioned within those immigrant-centered social and community networks in a different way than more Americanized guys.

It's so far removed by now, Tonto's a closer cousin.


Pogo

This was Uncle Junior for those who didn't get it.


Pogo

The fuck you want, a boutonniere?

[Browniety86]

Yeah didn't Calabro immigrate here as a little kid? Little more than a toddler if I'm not mistaken.


Pogo

Yeah, Chicago boss Johnny Apes Monteleone was born in Sambuca and immigrated to Chicago as a little kid. No sense in describing a guy like that as a “zip”, though it’s historically interesting to note his birth, as well as keep in mind that it could have put him in a position to have closer personal contacts via relatives to people back in Sicily than a guy who was third gen American.

The latter point also relates to the notion of “zip factions” in the NYC Families. As people point out, some of these guys immigrated while young (or were even US born), and certainly weren’t “zips” themselves in the sense of guys who came to the US with pre-existing affiliations to the mafia in Sicily. But, the notion of “Sicilian” or “zip” factions points more toward identity and social networks, and thus guys who came as kids or were born here to parents who were first gen immigrants are still positioned within those immigrant-centered social and community networks in a different way than more Americanized guys.

It's so far removed by now, Tonto's a closer cousin.


Pogo

This was Uncle Junior for those who didn't get it.


Pogo

The fuck you want, a boutonniere?

When Junior said that I laughed my ass off

[Pogo The Clown]

Fuck your slipper.


Pogo

[Adam]

If we're counting guys born in Italy/Sicily as Zips than you can add Sergio Battaglia.


Pogo

Biagio Adornetto would count too. Even though they didn't use him at trials.