Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

[Newyorkempire]

Well you're defining a newly minted litigation term in a way that fits your opinion and makes sense to you. It's just a term the prosecution made up to help their case. There is no criminology background to the term IOC other than a catchall way of discussing the mafia, Camorra, 'Ndrahgheta, etc. I fully understand what you're saying, but I don't think IOC is a legitimate good faith term with real meaning. It's a way for the jury to think "mafia". I could buy "former mafia", but "former" doesn't sound good to a prosecutor.

Totally agree with the dilution.... and what it also does is dilute the mafia brand so its a double edged sword for the prosecution. And my interpretation is just that, mine. I have tried to be more objective myself as new evidence comes out. I do believe that we are reaching a war of attrition of sorts in Buffalo city and in southern Ontario to a lesser extent whereas the old traditional model gives way to this hybrid model, more fluid, varying alliances, and where being made isnt as critical as it once was in order for an Italian gangster to apply his trade.

[Newyorkempire]

Oh what the hell. We know what we're talking about. A nomenclature debate I guess.

Fuck. Had to look that word up. Take it easy on the vocab. Nonmenclature? Holy moly.

[UTC]

Most of the time I don't even understand what I'm saying.

[Newyorkempire]

Most of the time I don't even understand what I'm saying.

Perfect. Proceed.

[PolackTony]

Not to argue that in this case the use of “IOC” isn’t a strategy by the prosecution to lower the standards for proving LCN membership or formal affiliation. But, the term “Italian Organized Crime” as used by Federal LE isn’t new, and I’m thinking that for Buffalo maybe it also relates to the cross-border region’s landscape of LCN interacting with both the Sicilian mafia and the ‘Ndrangheta.

In the early 90s, the FBI issued a report on “Italian Organized Crime” in IL, which specifically documented links between local LCN (Chicago and Rockford) and the Sicilian mafia, the Camorra (NCO and NF at that time), Pugliese OC, and local Chicago ‘Ndrangheta operations (relevant to the discussion here, the report linked the head of ‘Ndrangheta operations in Chicago to the Siderno group in Ontario, though redactions make it difficult to parse what the exact nature of the connection was). In the IL case, “IOC” was an intentional usage to capture the interactions between local LCN and groups from Italy. It seems to me that this could be relevant for the Buffalo/ON context too.

[calabrianwatch]

IOC is used widely across the sector now and it just perpetuates the myth that all Italian criminals committing serious/organised crime are somewhat 'mafia'. It's a catch 22: traditional organised crime means Italian mafia in practice but because mafia is a too charged word and (wrongfully) requires proof of certain structures and MO, then traditional organised crime + Italian mafia = Italian organised crime to indeed dilute (as said above) and be inclusive also of 'non mafia/non traditional' networks of Italians - again, "ethnic" policing.

[UTC]

Not to argue that in this case the use of “IOC” isn’t a strategy by the prosecution to lower the standards for proving LCN membership or formal affiliation. But, the term “Italian Organized Crime” as used by Federal LE isn’t new, and I’m thinking that for Buffalo maybe it also relates to the cross-border region’s landscape of LCN interacting with both the Sicilian mafia and the ‘Ndrangheta.

In the early 90s, the FBI issued a report on “Italian Organized Crime” in IL, which specifically documented links between local LCN (Chicago and Rockford) and the Sicilian mafia, the Camorra (NCO and NF at that time), Pugliese OC, and local Chicago ‘Ndrangheta operations (relevant to the discussion here, the report linked the head of ‘Ndrangheta operations in Chicago to the Siderno group in Ontario, though redactions make it difficult to parse what the exact nature of the connection was). In the IL case, “IOC” was an intentional usage to capture the interactions between local LCN and groups from Italy. It seems to me that this could be relevant for the Buffalo/ON context too.

It's 100% new as used in this context. In a prior post I pointed out that it was indeed used before, but only as you described, namely to lump together different types of organized crime derived from Italy.

[PolackTony]

Not to argue that in this case the use of “IOC” isn’t a strategy by the prosecution to lower the standards for proving LCN membership or formal affiliation. But, the term “Italian Organized Crime” as used by Federal LE isn’t new, and I’m thinking that for Buffalo maybe it also relates to the cross-border region’s landscape of LCN interacting with both the Sicilian mafia and the ‘Ndrangheta.

In the early 90s, the FBI issued a report on “Italian Organized Crime” in IL, which specifically documented links between local LCN (Chicago and Rockford) and the Sicilian mafia, the Camorra (NCO and NF at that time), Pugliese OC, and local Chicago ‘Ndrangheta operations (relevant to the discussion here, the report linked the head of ‘Ndrangheta operations in Chicago to the Siderno group in Ontario, though redactions make it difficult to parse what the exact nature of the connection was). In the IL case, “IOC” was an intentional usage to capture the interactions between local LCN and groups from Italy. It seems to me that this could be relevant for the Buffalo/ON context too.

It's 100% new as used in this context. In a prior post I pointed out that it was indeed used before, but only as you described, namely to lump together different types of organized crime derived from Italy.

Thanks for the response. So there has never been another case where “IOC” was deployed in the way that it’s being used in this context then?

[Newyorkempire]

Not to argue that in this case the use of “IOC” isn’t a strategy by the prosecution to lower the standards for proving LCN membership or formal affiliation. But, the term “Italian Organized Crime” as used by Federal LE isn’t new, and I’m thinking that for Buffalo maybe it also relates to the cross-border region’s landscape of LCN interacting with both the Sicilian mafia and the ‘Ndrangheta.

In the early 90s, the FBI issued a report on “Italian Organized Crime” in IL, which specifically documented links between local LCN (Chicago and Rockford) and the Sicilian mafia, the Camorra (NCO and NF at that time), Pugliese OC, and local Chicago ‘Ndrangheta operations (relevant to the discussion here, the report linked the head of ‘Ndrangheta operations in Chicago to the Siderno group in Ontario, though redactions make it difficult to parse what the exact nature of the connection was). In the IL case, “IOC” was an intentional usage to capture the interactions between local LCN and groups from Italy. It seems to me that this could be relevant for the Buffalo/ON context too.

It's 100% new as used in this context. In a prior post I pointed out that it was indeed used before, but only as you described, namely to lump together different types of organized crime derived from Italy.

Thanks for the response. So there has never been another case where “IOC” was deployed in the way that it’s being used in this context then?

In this extremely narrow context I would think so

[UTC]

I should have said to my knowledge.

[PolackTony]

I should have said to my knowledge.

Thanks.

[UTC]

Or vast knowledge, to be precise. {Lol}

[gohnjotti]

What I want to know is what happened to NickyFromTampa/GohnJotti?? Guy took his ball and went home after getting annihilated.

It turns out I was wrong, happy to concede that. Never claimed to have inside knowledge on the subject. And the people on GangsterBB (with the exception of NickleCity) were all equally wrong with their assessments on how the family was structured.

what was John wrong about? he's a respected long time poster...

Everything. As he admitted

Can u give me some details? I used to enjoy reading his write ups. I don’t recall him being discredited but maybe I missed it.

Newyorkempire won't give you any details because he's incorrect. I didn't think Buffalo was an active family until the evidence came out from the FBI that it was. Then I said, "Okay guys, it looks like Buffalo might be more of an active entity than I thought."

Never once did I claim to know, definitively, that Buffalo wasn't active.
Never once did I claim to have inside knowledge on the matter.
Never once did I say anything about family that was unsubstantiated... Because all I know about the family is from information available online. Information which now indicates that the family's pulse is still beating, in some capacity.

Newyorkempire - Props to being proven right on the Buffalo debate. You won't see me try and argue against their activity again. But don't go around telling people I've been discredited or that I'm a liar, because we both know that's not true.

[Newyorkempire]

What I want to know is what happened to NickyFromTampa/GohnJotti?? Guy took his ball and went home after getting annihilated.

It turns out I was wrong, happy to concede that. Never claimed to have inside knowledge on the subject. And the people on GangsterBB (with the exception of NickleCity) were all equally wrong with their assessments on how the family was structured.

what was John wrong about? he's a respected long time poster...

Everything. As he admitted

Can u give me some details? I used to enjoy reading his write ups. I don’t recall him being discredited but maybe I missed it.

Newyorkempire won't give you any details because he's incorrect. I didn't think Buffalo was an active family until the evidence came out from the FBI that it was. Then I said, "Okay guys, it looks like Buffalo might be more of an active entity than I thought."

Never once did I claim to know, definitively, that Buffalo wasn't active.
Never once did I claim to have inside knowledge on the matter.
Never once did I say anything about family that was unsubstantiated... Because all I know about the family is from information available online. Information which now indicates that the family's pulse is still beating, in some capacity.

Newyorkempire - Props to being proven right on the Buffalo debate. You won't see me try and argue against their activity again. But don't go around telling people I've been discredited or that I'm a liar, because we both know that's not true.

Thats the evidence. You adamantly refuted the whole subject matter. And when you got annihilated by the reports coming out, then you disappeared. And now you are admitting you were wrong. Good for you that you can eat crow with a positive attitude. Now call Loscalzo and tell him youll be over to shine his shoes later. And ill see you after that.

[gohnjotti]

What I want to know is what happened to NickyFromTampa/GohnJotti?? Guy took his ball and went home after getting annihilated.

It turns out I was wrong, happy to concede that. Never claimed to have inside knowledge on the subject. And the people on GangsterBB (with the exception of NickleCity) were all equally wrong with their assessments on how the family was structured.

what was John wrong about? he's a respected long time poster...

Everything. As he admitted

Can u give me some details? I used to enjoy reading his write ups. I don’t recall him being discredited but maybe I missed it.

Newyorkempire won't give you any details because he's incorrect. I didn't think Buffalo was an active family until the evidence came out from the FBI that it was. Then I said, "Okay guys, it looks like Buffalo might be more of an active entity than I thought."

Never once did I claim to know, definitively, that Buffalo wasn't active.
Never once did I claim to have inside knowledge on the matter.
Never once did I say anything about family that was unsubstantiated... Because all I know about the family is from information available online. Information which now indicates that the family's pulse is still beating, in some capacity.

Newyorkempire - Props to being proven right on the Buffalo debate. You won't see me try and argue against their activity again. But don't go around telling people I've been discredited or that I'm a liar, because we both know that's not true.

Thats the evidence. You adamantly refuted the whole subject matter. And when you got annihilated by the reports coming out, then you disappeared. And now you are admitting you were wrong. Good for you that you can eat crow with a positive attitude. Now call Loscalzo and tell him youll be over to shine his shoes later. And ill see you after that.

No, I admitted I was wrong at the time.

I was banned from GangsterBB, which is why I "disappeared" from there. I didn't disappear on here; I had many further discussions about it on here before you moved over. You act as if I ran off with my tail between my legs, which is false, but I guess these narratives give you validation.