https://mafiainaustralia.wordpress.com/

[JoeCamel]

5000 Ndrangheta members in Australia??

Dude, dreaming.

Australia, No where in the galaxy is such a wretched hive of scum and villainry

[motorfab]

Alphonse Gangitano, Mario Condello, Carlton crew Ndrine? Cosa Nostra? Was the mafia any deeper related to the Melbourne gangland war then just those guys and the Morans?

Just the Carlton Crew, not a 'ndrina. The Morans were part of it. It looks Gangitano, Condello & Gatto were connected to the local 'ndrangheta but they were not part of it

[motorfab]

5000 Ndrangheta members in Australia??

Dude, dreaming.

It sounds very exagerated to me

[scagghiuni]

5000 Ndrangheta members in Australia??

Dude, dreaming.

according to the AFP there are 51 Italian organised crime clans in Australia, 14 of those are ‘Ndrangheta, i think 5.000 is all italian gangs combined included the ones that are not associated with organized crime

[MSFRD]

As an Australian and a Melbournite I can confidently say 5000 members is an absolutely ridiculous estimate.
Couple of hundred tops. Wouldn’t even be 1000 when you include all associates at any one time.
There are around 4000 bikie gang members including all clubs at the present time. They are the largest OC group in terms of numbers.

[SonnyBlackstein]

As an Australian and a Melbournite I can confidently say 5000 members is an absolutely ridiculous estimate.
Couple of hundred tops. Wouldn’t even be 1000 when you include all associates at any one time.
There are around 4000 bikie gang members including all clubs at the present time. They are the largest OC group in terms of numbers.

That was my exact first response as well.
But who knows:
AFP Assistant Commissioner Crime Command Nigel Ryan “We have about 51 Italian organised crime clans in Australia.
We have identified 14 confirmed ‘Ndrangheta clans across Australia, involving thousands of members.
Our picture of the clans is continuing to grow, but intelligence suggests their overall membership could potentially be similar to that of patched members in Australian outlaw motorcycle gangs. That shows how subterranean and significant the ‘Ndrangheta are in Australia.”

I still think 5000 is an astonishing number and would amazed if it was more than a fifth of that but these are direct unambiguous quotes from the AFP Assistant Commissioner.

Source AFP Website: https://www.afp.gov.au/news-media/media ... -operation

[AustraliaSteve]

5000 active members is a relatively accurate estimate in my opinion. Certainly not as inducted ‘ndrina, but as the network of associates around them that help facilitate the drug trafficking. I don’t think anyones claiming there’s 5000 actual ‘ndrine across the several groups operating in this country. But between them an the overlap between OMCGs, I think 5000 is a pretty conservative estimate.

[AustraliaSteve]

Hey look, that’s just me and what I took it to mean. I’ve read what the AFP have released in statements, and what newscorp carries. I took the number to refer to an estimate of the extended networks, including the distributors.
To be fair, it wouldn’t be the first time researchers were caught off guard by the scope and magnitude of the Calabrian-Australian networks. A few years ago I remember the consensus was that ‘ndrine here were structured very differently to how they were in Italy, only for later information to surface that established they were still structured the same way.

[AustraliaSteve]

As an Australian and a Melbournite I can confidently say 5000 members is an absolutely ridiculous estimate.
Couple of hundred tops. Wouldn’t even be 1000 when you include all associates at any one time.
There are around 4000 bikie gang members including all clubs at the present time. They are the largest OC group in terms of numbers.

If been thinking about this for a while, and fwiw, I think your scope is off. Remember that Melbourne accounts for only a small fraction of the active ‘ndrine in Australia. Between the cells in the Riverina, Mildura and Shepparton, Sydney and FNQ, and Adelaide of course for the Plati groups alone, and then what we learned a few years ago about at least two locales in Perth linked to the Siderno clans.

Here’s my basic working theory; in the early days, the infiltration of the farmers markets and the growing operations served as the Australian equivalent of Prohibition. The money that was generated by these early rackets allowed the Calabrian clans to legitimise. As Brown and Cusack reported in the 1970’s, the clans have been able to invest in industry and businesses.

I don’t know. The more I think about it, is 5000 across the whole country really that unbelievable?

[MSFRD]

As an Australian and a Melbournite I can confidently say 5000 members is an absolutely ridiculous estimate.
Couple of hundred tops. Wouldn’t even be 1000 when you include all associates at any one time.
There are around 4000 bikie gang members including all clubs at the present time. They are the largest OC group in terms of numbers.

If been thinking about this for a while, and fwiw, I think your scope is off. Remember that Melbourne accounts for only a small fraction of the active ‘ndrine in Australia. Between the cells in the Riverina, Mildura and Shepparton, Sydney and FNQ, and Adelaide of course for the Plati groups alone, and then what we learned a few years ago about at least two locales in Perth linked to the Siderno clans.

Here’s my basic working theory; in the early days, the infiltration of the farmers markets and the growing operations served as the Australian equivalent of Prohibition. The money that was generated by these early rackets allowed the Calabrian clans to legitimise. As Brown and Cusack reported in the 1970’s, the clans have been able to invest in industry and businesses.

I don’t know. The more I think about it, is 5000 across the whole country really that unbelievable?

Hey, nothing to dismiss your opinion or contribution Meatballs. What you stated above is that 5000 was the size of the network and associates, then yes I would agree that that doesn’t sound too far fetched. However, initiated members of actual clans is preposterous.

The range of estimates of the ‘Ndrangheta in Calabria is consistently estimated at 5-6-7 thousand members in any article I read. To say that Australia would have anywhere close to that is again, preposterous.

A cursory glance from the census gives the Italian population of Australia as 1.1 or so million, either solely or in part ancestry, which I would be included through my mother. This would include ancestry from all regions not just Calabria. The population of Calabria itself is around 2 million. John Dickie in Blood Brotherhoods I believe gave the ratio of initiated members of the ‘Ndrangheta vis-a-vis the population. It was quite an interesting estimate. That Australia would have a similar size to the motherland clans is very hard to believe no matter how it is framed.

The ‘ndrine in Australia is what it has probably always been in regards to Australian OC: small but elite. If we included all the networks that connect to the clans including bikies, mainstream criminals, lawyers, accountants, where does one group end and one begin? Are Italian OC groups who deal with Asian gangs part of their network or vice versa?

[MSFRD]

As an Australian and a Melbournite I can confidently say 5000 members is an absolutely ridiculous estimate.
Couple of hundred tops. Wouldn’t even be 1000 when you include all associates at any one time.
There are around 4000 bikie gang members including all clubs at the present time. They are the largest OC group in terms of numbers.

That was my exact first response as well.
But who knows:
AFP Assistant Commissioner Crime Command Nigel Ryan “We have about 51 Italian organised crime clans in Australia.
We have identified 14 confirmed ‘Ndrangheta clans across Australia, involving thousands of members.
Our picture of the clans is continuing to grow, but intelligence suggests their overall membership could potentially be similar to that of patched members in Australian outlaw motorcycle gangs. That shows how subterranean and significant the ‘Ndrangheta are in Australia.”

I still think 5000 is an astonishing number and would amazed if it was more than a fifth of that but these are direct unambiguous quotes from the AFP Assistant Commissioner.

Source AFP Website: https://www.afp.gov.au/news-media/media ... -operation

I’m in agreement with you here. Whether he is specifically referring to initiated members or the whole network is very hard to tell. 5000 initiated males of Calabrian heritage between the ages of 18-100 is absolutely bizarre.

[SonnyBlackstein]

If we included all the networks that connect to the clans including bikies, mainstream criminals, lawyers, accountants, where does one group end and one begin? Are Italian OC groups who deal with Asian gangs part of their network or vice versa?

I think this is a good point.

How are they defining the '5000'. That number is stated by a journalist, whom uses the term 'membership'. This, to my knowledge was not a direct quote by the AFP.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.thegua ... police-say

"Police believe up to 5,000 mafia members are operating in Australia, in league with their colleagues in Italy."

So I think this cones down to a journalistic misuse of the term 'membership'. It's likey a term used to encompass the whole criminal network, anyone from a local street dealer to the guy sailing the boat, NOT Ndrine membership. One made Italian likely controls a network of 10-20 non Italian criminals, if not more.

It's simply unbelievable that there are 5000 made Italian Ndrangheta members. 2/300 is much, much more likely.

[MSFRD]

If we included all the networks that connect to the clans including bikies, mainstream criminals, lawyers, accountants, where does one group end and one begin? Are Italian OC groups who deal with Asian gangs part of their network or vice versa?

I think this is a good point.

How are they defining the '5000'. That number is stated by a journalist, whom uses the term 'membership'. This, to my knowledge was not a direct quote by the AFP.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.thegua ... police-say

"Police believe up to 5,000 mafia members are operating in Australia, in league with their colleagues in Italy."

So I think this cones down to a journalistic misuse of the term 'membership'. It's likey a term used to encompass the whole criminal network, anyone from a local street dealer to the guy sailing the boat, NOT Ndrine membership. One made Italian likely controls a network of 10-20 non Italian criminals, if not more.

It's simply unbelievable that there are 5000 made Italian Ndrangheta members. 2/300 is much, much more likely.

We are of the same mind Sonny! The Australian landscape isn’t even comparable to the US. I don’t think any Italian controls any number of associates. Groups work hand in hand to sell and distribute drugs and the like. I have no doubt Italians are at the top of the food chain but they are small compared to other groups.

[SonnyBlackstein]

If we included all the networks that connect to the clans including bikies, mainstream criminals, lawyers, accountants, where does one group end and one begin? Are Italian OC groups who deal with Asian gangs part of their network or vice versa?

I think this is a good point.

How are they defining the '5000'. That number is stated by a journalist, whom uses the term 'membership'. This, to my knowledge was not a direct quote by the AFP.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.thegua ... police-say

"Police believe up to 5,000 mafia members are operating in Australia, in league with their colleagues in Italy."

So I think this cones down to a journalistic misuse of the term 'membership'. It's likey a term used to encompass the whole criminal network, anyone from a local street dealer to the guy sailing the boat, NOT Ndrine membership. One made Italian likely controls a network of 10-20 non Italian criminals, if not more.

It's simply unbelievable that there are 5000 made Italian Ndrangheta members. 2/300 is much, much more likely.

We are of the same mind Sonny! The Australian landscape isn’t even comparable to the US. I don’t think any Italian controls any number of associates. Groups work hand in hand to sell and distribute drugs and the like. I have no doubt Italians are at the top of the food chain but they are small compared to other groups.

Agree. Control = business relationship. Financial. Not at all like the US where associates are placed on record, kick up etc. Simply people associated (through business relationships) with the mafia.

[JCB1977]

Aaargghh fucking satellite internet out here. Posted a long and well thought out response, and haven't been able to post it.

Fuck Atardi. I probably should have realised you're Chris/Chris is you, you share the same sense of humour and are extremely well versed in mob history and protocol.

I wrote a couple of articles for Gangsters Inc a while back, and am currently working on more. Actually, I recently noticed that David has them copyrighted under his site. He was always good tome, and it was through that site I was contacted by a government broadcaster but I'll, uh, have to talk to him about that once I find his email again.

Regarding the first question, Vincenzo D'Agostino is claimed by many sources to be a Milanese, but he did have a number of Calabrians under him (I am yet to discover whether or not he was Milan born or simply boarded from a port there, a cursory search indicated his name being a common one). He and his crew seem to represent the earliest example of organised crime amongst Italians in the country, even if it was simply crude Black Hand extortion. Before he died he was involved in a few deaths and numerous beatings and mutilations. Besides the arrival and early history of Italians into Australia, I cover him in one of the articles.
The ship Re D'Italia arrived in Australia in 1922, on whom arrived ANtonio Barbaro and Domenico Strano, who settled in Melbourne and Sydney respectively, as well as a yet unnamed third man who left for Perth. Multiple sources state these three men as the "founding fathers" of the Calabrian 'Ndrangheta in Australia. Indeed, in 1925 Constable James Clare was murdered by a Condello in Melbourne, this murder pre-dates some of D'Agostino's and the 1945 murder of Fat Joe Versace by Michele Scriva in Melbourne, which is often itself cited as the first "mafia hit" in Australia. These examples I be;lieve go towards proving that there was a Calabrian element in Australia far before mid century.

Regarding the second question, the principal families are always equated with New Yorks Five; the Seven Cells of Adelaide, SA. These are the Barbaro, Sergi, Alvaro, Nirta, Romeo, Perre and Trimboli. These names are constantly reoccurring in Australia, and while it may be an extension of the Italian domus, I think it can also indicate the relatively close knit and insular nature of the Calabrians operating in Australia. For example, out of 250 people arrested over 188 marijuana king-crops from ’74 to ’86, 60% can be traced back to just 15 family names: Sergi, Pochi, Barbaro, Velardi, Catanzariti, Romeo, Cannistra, Agresta, Trimboli, Carbone, Pelle, Perre, Zappia, Alvaro (Only Alvaro’s not being directly related by blood or marriage) Other names are common here as well as the Old Country and other parts of the world, such as Musitano, Ielasi, Pollifrone and Polimeni.

As far as any Sicilian element, despite reports of a Sicilian cell operating in Perth, the Censori/Tudori Family, this seems more a homegrown phenomenon than an overt case of a Cosa Nostra cell.

I apologise, I've typed this rather hurriedly and hope like fuck it actually sends this time. I look forward to what Rick, Jim and yourself discover, and will continue to share what I have learned over the last few years researching this phenomenon down under.

So interesting…my family is Calabrese. My dad’s side is Barbaro, all of them came from the Bianco/Casignana, RC area. All three brothers (My dad’s grandfather and two uncles) were murdered in Youngstown between 1924-1925. In my family tree, the Barbaro’s married into the Trimboli’s. My Mom’s maiden name is Zappia and her parents come from Cirella, RC. The Zappia’s married into the Romeo’s, Agresta’s & Cantanzariti families. In Youngstown, most of these names are still prominent Italian families to this day.