Discredited CWs / CIs

[B.]

Don't think we've had this type of list. We all have different judgments about info from certain informants/witnesses but there's a difference between guys we "feel" are lying versus instances where it's outright proven. There's also a difference with sources who are mistaken or get details wrong but aren't doing it intentionally.

Some of the discredited guys too gave more reliable info under oath or earlier in their cooperation but told crazy stories later so it's not all black and white. This thread could include members or associates.

Easy one to start with:

- Ralph Natale. His testimony looks to be fairly honest/accurate but he threw his credibility out the window with that book.

[HairyKnuckles]

Not a CW or CI but there was a recent faker on youtub who claimed he did lots of work for the NY Mafia, was part of killing the pope, was the godson of Lucky Luciano etc. Anthony Raimondi I think he´s name is. Man, did I have a good laugh listening to his story.

[B.]

Not a CW or CI but there was a recent faker on youtub who claimed he did lots of work for the NY Mafia, was part of killing the pope, was the godson of Lucky Luciano etc. Anthony Raimondi I think he´s name is. Man, did I have a good laugh listening to his story.

Never heard of him.

Those guys are my favorite. They write books, do interviews, often try to get movie/show deals but you can't find a trace of them anywhere that matters.

Wonder if he's a descendant of the old time Bonanno member Tony Raimondi.

[davidf1989]

Frank Salemme was a cooperating witness against John Connolly but was thrown out of the Witness Protection Program due to lying about a past murder or two. Some people believe that he and Manocchio had Hanrahan killed according to this article https://gangsterreport.com/mob-informan ... rahan-hit/ I think that Mark Rossetti who had worked for Salemme was exposed as an informant and arrested

Greg Scarpa and Frank Sparaco lied about their involvement in hits during the war against the Orena faction according to this article https://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/ ... e-1.956248

[B.]

Good examples. Those ones are kind of tricky, though. With Scarpa, he 100% lied through omission in the sense that he hid murders and other crime (i.e. drugs) from the FBI but the bulk of the info he did provide about the org was very credible.

Guys like that aren't really "discredited" for me, rather it's the guys who start inventing stories outright that lose credibility. There are some though like Bill Bonanno who made some bold claims in his book but the sum of his info is valuable enough that I can overlook it.

[HairyKnuckles]

Not a CW or CI but there was a recent faker on youtub who claimed he did lots of work for the NY Mafia, was part of killing the pope, was the godson of Lucky Luciano etc. Anthony Raimondi I think he´s name is. Man, did I have a good laugh listening to his story.

Never heard of him.

Those guys are my favorite. They write books, do interviews, often try to get movie/show deals but you can't find a trace of them anywhere that matters.

Wonder if he's a descendant of the old time Bonanno member Tony Raimondi.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhB3UK-S2dU

[Angelo Santino]

Tough one.

With Natale I'd argue that what he provided in his debriefing with agents is likely accurate to the best of his knowledge. But barring serious repercussions for lying which could affect his get out of jail card, I'm sure he'd love to have told them he was made in a joint ceremony by Bruno and Gambino. Every informant has their pros and cons, their areas of expertise. Take Philadelphia's Caramandi and Newark's Fresolone, there are discrepancies when their stories are compared but both were experts of their respective cities and seen the politics unfold in their Family from their vantage point.

And then this brings us down to personal perception of what is considered truth. For instance, DiLeonardo speaks of DiCicco's promotion to Capodecina as if history was made, "he broke the mold" as DiLeonardo described a Napolitan being made capo. We can look up the captains in the 1980's and see that a little under half of them were not Sicilian. If you want to do it by the numbers with statistics then no, DiCicco's promotion isn't anything special. But if you look at it from Michael's vantage point- within the Brooklyn Sicilian-American faction that controlled the family prior to 1985, that was the sentiment felt at the time, which is about as honest and truthful as one can get. Take that and compare it to what was alleged to have been said in Murder Machine- Nino Gaggi told DeMeo that Napolitans only can ever hold soldier. Capeci even made a note that that didn't seem to apply to Gotti/Dellacroce.

When it comes to discounting things, Last Testament of Luciano stands out. Another that should but won't, is Bound By Honor by Bill Bonanno, the second book. Had this been Hootie or whatever his name is claiming Roselli walked up and told him he was the second gunman on the grassy knoll he'd be laughed off YouTube. Bill can get away with it due to nepotism and the fact that some aspects of what he says are true. Honor Thy Father and Last Testament of Bill, not to mention his father's book and the series that they made, are a generous mix of truth, glossing, deception, revision and self-aggrandizement.

So yeah, aside from Last Testament I can't think of another. Could do a Hierarchy of Sources Chart listing pros and cons for each of them. But even then this goes into specialization, drawing back to if someone wanted to learn about (80's) Philadelphia, the best sources would be Caramandi and Leonetti. But if someone wanted to dig deeper in Jersey, that'd be Fresolone. It all goes back to vantage points.

[Antiliar]

Alleged mobster turned minister Tom Papania. He was a Gambino associate who later claimed he was made - and the son or illegitimate son or grandson of Joe the Boss Masseria. He made all kinds of claims and then when challenged made alterations to his story. Apparently he created this background so he'd have a more exciting testimony since he didn't have a real mobster father like Michael Franzese had Sonny.

Before he became an evangelist he testified in a Florida federal court and denied he was a made guy. (Writing this from memory, so I could be off in a few details.)

[Pogo The Clown]

Philly informant Roger Vella initially told the Feds that he was made in a 2000 ceremony in Atlantic City. The Feds didn't buy it so he backtracked and said that he should have been made.


Pogo

[TSNYC]

Gravano at this point. He came across as credible, but his recent stories of going after Chin in his club with a machine gun and some of the other more outlandish stories have become too much to take.

[axx]

Henry Hill started giving a lot of BS stories later on in life just to stay relevant.

An interesting comment on Amazon for his book "The Lufthansa Heist: Behind the Six-million Dollar Cash Haul That Shook the World":
I thought the book was a good read until the part where Deputy US Marshal were shot and wounded while
protecting Henry Hill during a transport of Hill to court.
NOT TRUE, NO DEPUTY MARSHALS WERE EVER WOUNDED EN ROUTE TO COURT FROM LONG ISLAND
NOR WAS HILL ATTACKED WHILE EN ROUTE TO COURT
Long Island is part of the Eastern District of New York as is Brooklyn, Queens and Staten Island
I was a Deputy, Supervisor, Chief and US Marshal in EDNY from 1968 to 2007 and what was written about the
Deputies being shot and wounded is not true. Also no Deputy would have called the FBI for help if they were attacked
as we took care of our own.
Michael A. Pizzi
US Marshal ( Retired )

[JeremyTheJew]

Surprised no one mentioned casso

Raimondi is absolutely crazy
His stories r rediculous n I don’t understand where he even came from
He popped up on vladtv for interview n the rest is history.

He’s even been criticized for his stolen valor claims (300 official kills he claims) on several non mafia channels

The only thing I gave him credit for was him going to Vegas to confront Lee cole live on Air n surprisingly cole did not show up

[Tonyd621]

Frank Dimatteo who was recently quoted in rolling stones I think.... if he's not been discredited yet he should be

[JeremyTheJew]

Frank Dimatteo who was recently quoted in rolling stones I think.... if he's not been discredited yet he should be

Whatever happened to his second book that supposed to go over his decave years

It’s supposed to be his years rsther then him telling his dads story

[Tonyd621]

The guy comes out of nowhere at like 60 something yrs old claiming all this sh*t that is difficult to verify. Then the next thing you know he's on podcasts and being quoted a nationally recognized magazines.