Anthony Arillotta Channel

[NothingNew44]

Can these rats really just do whatever they want after flipping? It seems like you’re untouchable once you flip. Or does anyone think one of these families will ever actually hit a known cooperators?

In today’s organized crime the juice isn’t worth the squeeze to murder anybody let alone a government cooperator. The likelihood of getting away with it is minimal and these guys have already testified so the benefit is nil. For these reasons and more, these guys live out in the open without reprisal. The days of dropping bodies and indiscriminately killing in LCN are over. The recent loosely mob connected murders (Zottola/Pandrella) in NYC serve as an example of the high risk vs non existent reward. Murder in 2022 is a great and sure fire way to end up in prison for life.

Bone-headed, greed-driven murders (Pandrella, Zottola) should be excluded from the overall theme. Truth is - and most won't hear it - that OC in other states - Texas, Oklahoma, Calif for sure - do murder rats. And yes, the Nuestra Famigilia/Nortenos are full-on organized crime. Italians have no foot soldiers where by to recruit. If your initial criteria is nationality instead of race, you must be open to an Outfit like structure of non-Italians. Chicago went the opposite direction of Italian-only with a ceremony (this started circa 70s/80s) and they now number a dozen old men. Every snapshot in the photos section is from the 40s.

Yea. I understand the point you’re trying to make, but it’s not the topic that was being discussed. We weren’t talking about Mexican or Hispanic gangs. The question was referring to LCN Families.

[JakeTheSnake630]

Sounds like Arillotta still speaks occasionally to Calvanese and Schibelli which I find interesting. Did Arilotta put anyone from Springfield in jail besides the Geas bros? Also looks like Chicky has totally been exposed. It was Chicky's brother who was wearing the wire in this case?

https://www.masslive.com/news/2019/08/i ... ictim.html

[outfit guy]

Can these rats really just do whatever they want after flipping? It seems like you’re untouchable once you flip. Or does anyone think one of these families will ever actually hit a known cooperators?

In today’s organized crime the juice isn’t worth the squeeze to murder anybody let alone a government cooperator. The likelihood of getting away with it is minimal and these guys have already testified so the benefit is nil. For these reasons and more, these guys live out in the open without reprisal. The days of dropping bodies and indiscriminately killing in LCN are over. The recent loosely mob connected murders (Zottola/Pandrella) in NYC serve as an example of the high risk vs non existent reward. Murder in 2022 is a great and sure fire way to end up in prison for life.

Bone-headed, greed-driven murders (Pandrella, Zottola) should be excluded from the overall theme. Truth is - and most won't hear it - that OC in other states - Texas, Oklahoma, Calif for sure - do murder rats. And yes, the Nuestra Famigilia/Nortenos are full-on organized crime. Italians have no foot soldiers where by to recruit. If your initial criteria is nationality instead of race, you must be open to an Outfit like structure of non-Italians. Chicago went the opposite direction of Italian-only with a ceremony (this started circa 70s/80s) and they now number a dozen old men. Every snapshot in the photos section is from the 40s.

The NF example is interesting but I think it's an apples and oranges situation. Those California prison gangs at the top of the hierarchy for their race have small "made men" memberships just like LCN - but their power is predicated on the fact that anyone in that world is eventually going to have to hit county or state prison and follow their rules. LCN isn't like that as most of their cases are federal and ranging in severity to the point where guys are spread out all over the country and there isn't a consolidated power base in any one prison. If a Mexican kid from the Bay Area gets popped stealing cars or caught with some pills, he's going to have to program with the Nortenos when he hits lockup or else he's getting forced out and/or assaulted. It's not like that for Italian Americans anywhere. Because of this they have a revolving door of crash dummy kids to use on things like going out to kill a rat - on top of being able to force their own made members to do the same thing if they are in bad standing. Yeah, in LCN if a made guy balks on a hit he would be chased or killed himself - but with the NF it's different, there are factional cliques with personal beefs and they have no problem sending out one of their own members on a dummy mission like that... and if anyone ends up behind bars over it, they're going to live the same as they would on the outside in their own heads.

People gravitate (less and less, obviously) to LCN for aspirational reasons , they aren't pulled in by default with fear being the main motivator. All of those other groups operate in a much more predatory manner and as result, a lot more of their members are doing life behind bars. There's also a huge wealth gap between the haves and have nots in the NF, where in LCN you still have guys really putting shit together and others who are known to not make a ton of money - but on average, any made member of the 5 families is probably much better off than the average NF member no matter how high level they are. These NF big wigs get released and get popped again for petty crimes themselves . It's night and day the way they operate and what their goals are.

This is really well written. My perception is you are in a way supporting what I say. No, the LCN does not have a small number of made men; it has too many and most never "got busy" on their own or were even at a murder scene. To be made into the NF, Eme, Cali AB, you have to put in work. This makes them by far more dangerous. And no, they are not all in prison; many get paroled. But great points to be had.
The Eme recruits and makes non-Mexican-Americans. During this integration, most have become Mexican-American culturally. That's the route I always thought could have been taken by the Italians.

[outfit guy]

Outfit like structure of non-Italians.

"Outfit" is just a synonym for "cosa nostra". But you're the "outfit guy", so who am I telling, right?

Chicago went the opposite direction of Italian-only with a ceremony (this started circa 70s/80s)

Source? You might want to actually read the Chicago threads here. As a starting point, Chicago is an LCN Family and like all others, has members and non-member associates (this distinction may be useful moving forward).

Every snapshot in the photos section is from the 40s.

You've now repeatedly made this point, it seems to be a source of personal frustration for you. If you ever do read the Chicago threads, you'd see that we have had detailed discussions regarding sources who allege who some of the current suspected made guys are. Why wait for someone else to post photos of them? These guys aren't hiding under rocks, you can easily find images of them if you're so insistent to know what they look like.

Also, stay tuned, as I'll soon be posting more photos of Chicago mafiosi from the 1920s. Enjoy.

Being flippant is not an approach to win over someone to your perceptions.

Advising LCN is the Outfit and it's a synonym: you're point? It's incorrect in the context of what I've written. It's seems you are "personally frustrated.

If you read instead of reacted, you'll note non-Italians were "associates". In reality, Jews and Greeks ran the North Side and reported directly to Giancana and Accardo. That's a great leap from Jimmy Burke and Apples McIntosh. Chicago North Side ran crews with Italians rolling up to non-Italians and as late as the 80s/early 90s. So, that they are synonyms at macro analysis yes, but at a micro-operational level, they were not. The Cosa Nostra in Chicago were the Aiellos. Capone could give a hoot about blood ceremonies and frankly, Luciano also recommended abolishing.

I don't follow "personal frustration." I am still waiting for you to stop speculating who is a "suspected" "made guy" where even the political and media-hungry FBI have essentially stop pursuing the Outfit.

[outfit guy]

Can these rats really just do whatever they want after flipping? It seems like you’re untouchable once you flip. Or does anyone think one of these families will ever actually hit a known cooperators?

In today’s organized crime the juice isn’t worth the squeeze to murder anybody let alone a government cooperator. The likelihood of getting away with it is minimal and these guys have already testified so the benefit is nil. For these reasons and more, these guys live out in the open without reprisal. The days of dropping bodies and indiscriminately killing in LCN are over. The recent loosely mob connected murders (Zottola/Pandrella) in NYC serve as an example of the high risk vs non existent reward. Murder in 2022 is a great and sure fire way to end up in prison for life.

Bone-headed, greed-driven murders (Pandrella, Zottola) should be excluded from the overall theme. Truth is - and most won't hear it - that OC in other states - Texas, Oklahoma, Calif for sure - do murder rats. And yes, the Nuestra Famigilia/Nortenos are full-on organized crime. Italians have no foot soldiers where by to recruit. If your initial criteria is nationality instead of race, you must be open to an Outfit like structure of non-Italians. Chicago went the opposite direction of Italian-only with a ceremony (this started circa 70s/80s) and they now number a dozen old men. Every snapshot in the photos section is from the 40s.

Yea. I understand the point you’re trying to make, but it’s not the topic that was being discussed. We weren’t talking about Mexican or Hispanic gangs. The question was referring to LCN Families.

At this point, this faction of the LCN is utterly compromised. No Chicky per se as he can't control the Bloods or his nephew. It would be an issue if he new the nephew wired or weak enough to roll. But, communicating with Arillotta or at least stopping him from rolling around Downtown. Some Action!

[mike68]

This guy can walk around wherever he wants, but Santaniello's father gets his photo taken with Tranghese and he's shelved?

[newera_212]

This is really well written. My perception is you are in a way supporting what I say. No, the LCN does not have a small number of made men; it has too many and most never "got busy" on their own or were even at a murder scene. To be made into the NF, Eme, Cali AB, you have to put in work. This makes them by far more dangerous. And no, they are not all in prison; many get paroled. But great points to be had.
The Eme recruits and makes non-Mexican-Americans. During this integration, most have become Mexican-American culturally. That's the route I always thought could have been taken by the Italians.

Thanks and I think I kind of agree with you in spirit but it's apples and oranges IMO. The risk far outweighs the reward for sitting LCN members to kill people who have already ratted. It wouldn't be a deterrent for future cooperators just like it isn't for the Eme and NF. They've killed rats and also family members of rats and people STILL drop out and cooperate...now more than ever. Can't paint with that broad of a brush when everyone has their own supposed individualized reason for flipping.

The small made members thing is in proportion to everyone else under them as well. I think in that regard some similarities can be drawn. The AB is supposed to take only the cream of the crop. Sometimes "scumbags" and rats slip through the cracks. Ostensibly the same with LCN. Supposed to make the best of the best and/or people who are going to benefit the organization as a whole. Each have thousands of unmade associates and affiliates answering to them. I read a report out of Cororan in 2009 that says there were somewhere between 80 and 110 "made" AB members in the entire Cali prison system (obviously at that time spread across 3 SHU-based prisons). They are in charge of at least 25,000 (super super super liberal estimate) white inmates with probably like 500-1000 who are true associates. Compare that to one of the smaller 3 NYC crime familes...number of made members + truly active and involved associates...same shit.

The bottom line for me and why all of these groups can't be compared to LCN is that the AB, NF, EME, etc. didn't start with origins in Organized Crime. They weren't founded to be a brotherhood that certain criminals can benefit from and prosper from. They were Prison-First and than outwardly expanded into essentially extorting lesser/petty criminals . Some EME/NF and even AB guys have evolved past that to enter into rackets - illegal and quasi-legal, with the intent of becoming more organized and making money - but the groups have always had two different M.O.'s (IMO)

[newera_212]

Sounds like Arillotta still speaks occasionally to Calvanese and Schibelli which I find interesting. Did Arilotta put anyone from Springfield in jail besides the Geas bros? Also looks like Chicky has totally been exposed. It was Chicky's brother who was wearing the wire in this case?

https://www.masslive.com/news/2019/08/i ... ictim.html

I wouldn't be surprised if people in and around Springfield LCN were happy the Geas brothers are no longer around. Arillotta must have hated them too lol - used them as crash dummies and goons basically, to his own benefit, and then he flipped on them

[PolackTony]

The Cosa Nostra in Chicago were the Aiellos.

So, non-cosa nostra organizations were given permanent, formal seats on the Commission and a vote on the highest levels of LCN political affairs?

Capone could give a hoot about blood ceremonies

Source?

and frankly, Luciano also recommended abolishing.

Source?

I don't follow "personal frustration." I am still waiting for you to stop speculating who is a "suspected" "made guy" where even the political and media-hungry FBI have essentially stop pursuing the Outfit.

Why are you waiting for us to stop speculating? What difference does it make to you? This is what I meant by “personal frustration”. Life is frustrating enough, and some things are real sources of frustration with real impact in your lives; whatever Anthony Arilotta is doing and how some guys you don’t know respond, or the price of new books, for example.

[Wiseguy]

Bone-headed, greed-driven murders (Pandrella, Zottola) should be excluded from the overall theme. Truth is - and most won't hear it - that OC in other states - Texas, Oklahoma, Calif for sure - do murder rats. And yes, the Nuestra Famigilia/Nortenos are full-on organized crime. Italians have no foot soldiers where by to recruit. If your initial criteria is nationality instead of race, you must be open to an Outfit like structure of non-Italians. Chicago went the opposite direction of Italian-only with a ceremony (this started circa 70s/80s) and they now number a dozen old men. Every snapshot in the photos section is from the 40s.

Picking a prison gang like the Nuestra Famiglia as a comparison is ironic, since they operate from prison, and that's precisely what the LCN is trying to avoid by not resorting to murder like it used to. They may both be organized crime, in a general sense of the term, but they're quite different organizations. And though you seem to be particularly enamored with the violence factor, it's only one aspect among many to analyze an OC group from. If the mob started dropping bodies again like it was the 1980's, while I'm sure they'd suddenly have more of your respect, the overall net negative fallout can hardly be questioned.

It's a stretch to think the Outfit would have somehow survived if it had continued to have non-Italians high up in the hierarchy. The attrition of the core group of Italian made members would have still taken place, bringing and end to the organization in and of itself, regardless of how many non-Italians remained or in what position. And speaking of attrition, there's a distinction between the NY metro area and elsewhere in the U.S.

This is really well written. My perception is you are in a way supporting what I say. No, the LCN does not have a small number of made men; it has too many and most never "got busy" on their own or were even at a murder scene. To be made into the NF, Eme, Cali AB, you have to put in work. This makes them by far more dangerous. And no, they are not all in prison; many get paroled. But great points to be had. The Eme recruits and makes non-Mexican-Americans. During this integration, most have become Mexican-American culturally. That's the route I always thought could have been taken by the Italians.

Huh? I'd love to see how many of the 140 or so members of La Eme aren't at least partially Mexican-American. Hierarchy charts are put out just about every time there's a big gang takedown. I don't see a lot of white, black, or Asian guys.

Now the idea of the LCN having too many members is an interesting one. Obviously that doesn't seem to apply to the handful of families outside NY, who will increasingly struggle to field enough guys to have a functioning organization. In New York, while I get the point you're making about quality over quantity, we'll probably see the shrinking of families even there due to attrition (and changing markets) anyway. You look at some of the most recent estimates and, while the three smaller families have more or less maintained there membership average over the last 40 years, it seems the days of the Genovese and Gambino families being at 200+ are over. One former prosecutor put both at around 150 today.

[outfit guy]

The Cosa Nostra in Chicago were the Aiellos.

So, non-cosa nostra organizations were given permanent, formal seats on the Commission and a vote on the highest levels of LCN political affairs?

Capone could give a hoot about blood ceremonies

Source?

and frankly, Luciano also recommended abolishing.

Source?

I don't follow "personal frustration." I am still waiting for you to stop speculating who is a "suspected" "made guy" where even the political and media-hungry FBI have essentially stop pursuing the Outfit.

Why are you waiting for us to stop speculating? What difference does it make to you? This is what I meant by “personal frustration”. Life is frustrating enough, and some things are real sources of frustration with real impact in your lives; whatever Anthony Arilotta is doing and how some guys you don’t know respond, or the price of new books, for example.

This is entertainment, not frustration. It's incredible the angst you get reading my posts when you need only respond with some insight instead of ad hominem attacks.

[PolackTony]

The Cosa Nostra in Chicago were the Aiellos.

So, non-cosa nostra organizations were given permanent, formal seats on the Commission and a vote on the highest levels of LCN political affairs?

Capone could give a hoot about blood ceremonies

Source?

and frankly, Luciano also recommended abolishing.

Source?

I don't follow "personal frustration." I am still waiting for you to stop speculating who is a "suspected" "made guy" where even the political and media-hungry FBI have essentially stop pursuing the Outfit.

Why are you waiting for us to stop speculating? What difference does it make to you? This is what I meant by “personal frustration”. Life is frustrating enough, and some things are real sources of frustration with real impact in your lives; whatever Anthony Arilotta is doing and how some guys you don’t know respond, or the price of new books, for example.

This is entertainment, not frustration. It's incredible the angst you get reading my posts when you need only respond with some insight instead of ad hominem attacks.

Still waiting for the sources for your claims. You stated them as fact, should be easy to document the support for them.

[JakeTheSnake630]

This guy can walk around wherever he wants, but Santaniello's father gets his photo taken with Tranghese and he's shelved?

[AntComello]

Sounds like Arillotta still speaks occasionally to Calvanese and Schibelli which I find interesting. Did Arilotta put anyone from Springfield in jail besides the Geas bros? Also looks like Chicky has totally been exposed. It was Chicky's brother who was wearing the wire in this case?

https://www.masslive.com/news/2019/08/i ... ictim.html

How was chicks exposed? And how do u know it was his brother that wore the wire? Not saying your wrong just wondering

[JakeTheSnake630]

There is a YouTube video interview with Chickys brother who admits it. His brother says it was chicky who connected him with a retired OC task force cop who in turn brought him to the fbi for help. Everything seems to add up. The YouTube video is done by some guy lefty pool hall.