Bonanno members on Montreal

[CabriniGreen]

- Appartenez-vous à une organisation criminelle ? poursuit le magistrat.

– Oui, admet le mafioso, sans plus.

Le juge Garaufis est satisfait du témoignage de Rizzuto, bien qu’il soit très succinct, et accepte sa réponse. Il reporte le prononcé de la sentence de trois semaines. À la sortie de la salle d’audience, l’avocat John W. Mitchell déclare aux journalistes que son client n’a pas tout perdu, qu’il n’a pas admis son appartenance à la famille Bonanno et que cela est très important pour lui. L’avocat l’écrira d’ailleurs un peu plus tard dans une série d’objections à un «rapport présentenciel : « Le défendeur s’objecte à ce qu’il soit décrit comme un “soldat” de la famille criminelle Bonanno. Même s’il a plaidé coupable à des crimes commis dans un contexte d’association, il nie être ou avoir été membre de cette famille. Après le 5 mai 1981, il n’a pas été un membre ni même un associé de la famille Bonanno.»

Mais durant les dernières années à New York, le délateur Salvatore Vitale avait témoigné que Vito Rizzuto avait été le premier à ouvrir le feu à New York, en 1981. Il a aussi décrit le chef de la mafia montréalaise comme le plus puissant au Canada et mentionné qu’il était plus particulièrement associé à la famille Bonanno.

So...as of 1981, Vito wasn't a made guy yet? Did he ever get inducted? This is pretty big....

continued the magistrate.

– Yes, admits the mafioso, without more.

Judge Garaufis is satisfied with Rizzuto's testimony, although very succinct, and accepts his answer. He postpones sentencing for three weeks. Exiting the courtroom, attorney John W. Mitchell tells reporters that his client hasn't lost everything, that he hasn't admitted to being a member of the Bonanno family and that this is very important for him. The lawyer will write it a little later in a series of objections to a “pre-sentence report: “The defendant objects to his being described as a “soldier” of the Bonanno crime family. Although he pleaded guilty to crimes committed in an association context, he denies being or having been a member of this family. After May 5, 1981, he was not a member or even an associate of the Bonanno family."

But in recent years in New York, informer Salvatore Vitale testified that Vito Rizzuto was the first to open fire in New York, in 1981. He also described the Montreal mob boss as the most powerful in Canada and mentioned that he was particularly associated with the Bonanno family.

[CabriniGreen]

Au sujet des attaques contre son clan, Rizzuto dit croire qu’elles proviennent de New York. Il confirme qu’après le meurtre en 1999 de Gerlando Sciascia – qui n’aurait jamais dû mourir, croit-il –, il était très en colère et que, par la suite, le clan Rizzuto a avisé les responsables de la mafia new-yorkaise qu’il coupait les liens avec elle. Il pense que les mafiosi américains se sont vengés en attaquant son clan par le biais de Salvatore Montagna, ancien chef intérimaire du clan Bonanno. Mais les policiers lui font valoir que des criminels montréalais sont vraisemblablement impliqués dans les attentats contre sa famille.

Regarding the attacks on his clan, Rizzuto says he believes they originated in New York. He confirms that after the 1999 murder of Gerlando Sciascia – who he believes should never have died – he was very angry and that subsequently the Rizzuto clan notified the leaders of the new mafia. Yorker that he was cutting ties with her. He believes that the American mafiosi took revenge by attacking his clan through Salvatore Montagna, former acting head of the Bonanno clan. But the police tell him that Montreal criminals are probably involved in the attacks against his family.
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antimafia

[CabriniGreen]

From «Ponte sullo Stretto e la Canadian Connection» by Antonio Mazzeo:

Sempre secondo Vitale, per completare l’ascesa ai vertici della criminalità, Vito Rizzuto dovette attendere almeno sino al 1999, quando Joseph Massino ordinò di assassinare Sciascia. «Dopo l’omicidio del boss, Rizzuto fu nominato capitano della cellula. Rizzuto chiese che suo padre, soldato della famiglia, fosse designato al suo posto in segno di rispetto. Non so come fu risolta la questione. So comunque che Rizzuto è un membro estremamente potente ed influente della famiglia e continua ogni anno a pagare un tributo a Massino».

From «Bridge over the Strait and the Canadian Connection» by Antonio Mazzeo:

Also according to Vitale, to complete the rise to the top of crime, Vito Rizzuto had to wait at least until 1999, when Joseph Massino ordered Sciascia to be assassinated. "After the murder of the boss, Rizzuto was appointed captain of the cell. Rizzuto asked that his father, a soldier of the family, be appointed in his place as a sign of respect. I don't know how the matter was resolved. However, I know that Rizzuto is an extremely powerful and influential member of the family and continues to pay tribute to Massino every year ».

[CabriniGreen]

Vito Rizzuto is speaking with both Lorie McDougall and Serge St-Denis, an RCMP Staff Sergeant who at the time is McDougall's colleague. Also present in the room is a young FBI agent.

Le froid entre eux s'est estompé. Comme s'ils étaient de vieux amis qui se connaissent depuis des décennies, le parrain et Lorie McDougall se rappellent de vieux souvenirs, tant agréables que plus douloureux.

McDougall émet une théorie sur le meurtre de l'ami de Rizzuto, Giuseppe Lo Presti, commis en 1992. Il lui dit croire que lui, Vito Rizzuto, a reçu la commande, mais qu'il a été incapable de l'exécuter et qu'il à demandé a des membres du « gang de l'ouest » de le faire a sa place. Le parrain regarde le plancher et ne répond pas.

Le chef de la mafia qualifie les membres du clan Bonanno de New York de « rats ». II dit qu'il a toujours su que c'était leur chef Joe Massino qui avait fait exécuter son ami Gerlando Sciascia et qu'auparavant, le clan Rizzuto remettait toujours des enveloppes à la famille mafieuse americaine à Noël, mais qu'à partir de ce moment, ce fut terminé.

The coldness between them faded. As if they were old friends who have known each other for decades, the godfather and Lorie McDougall reminisce about old memories, both pleasant and more painful.

McDougall theorizes about the murder of Rizzuto's friend Giuseppe Lo Presti in 1992. He tells him he believes he, Vito Rizzuto, received the order, but was unable to carry it out and that he asked members of the "western gang" to do it for him. The godfather looks at the floor and does not answer.

The mob boss calls members of the Bonanno clan of New York "rats". He says he always knew that it was their leader Joe Massino who had his friend Gerlando Sciascia executed and that previously the Rizzuto clan always gave envelopes to the American mafia family at Christmas, but that from that moment it was over.

[CabriniGreen]

En ce qui a trait à l’enlèvement de son beau-frère Paolo Renda et au meurtre d’Agostino Cuntrera, il ne croit pas que ces attentats aient été commandités par les familles de New York.

– Il n’y a aucun lien entre eux et Montréal, dit-il.

Il soutient que le seul lien qu’il entretenait était avec son ami Gerlando Sciascia, tué en 1999. Il confirme avoir rencontré Salvatore Vitale et que ce dernier lui avait offert le poste de capitaine pour les Bonanno, mais qu’il avait refusé en le traitant d’imbécile. Il ajoute que chaque fois qu’il a rencontré un membre du clan Bonanno, il avait eu mal au cœur.

– C’est une gang d’imbéciles, martèle-t-il devant les enquêteurs.

Il ajoute que depuis l’adoption de la loi RICO aux États-Unis, les familles de New York sont devenues de petites cellules.

Regarding the kidnapping of his brother-in-law Paolo Renda and the murder of Agostino Cuntrera, he does not believe that these attacks were ordered by the families of New York.

“There is no connection between them and Montreal,” he said.

He maintains that the only link he had was with his friend Gerlando Sciascia, who was killed in 1999. He confirms that he met Salvatore Vitale and that the latter had offered him the post of captain for the Bonannos, but that he had refused it. calling a fool. He adds that every time he met a member of the Bonanno clan, he had felt sick to his stomach.

– It’s a gang of idiots, he insists in front of the investigators.

He adds that since the passage of the RICO law in the United States, families in New York have become small cells.
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antimafia

[CabriniGreen]

- Appartenez-vous à une organisation criminelle ? poursuit le magistrat.

– Oui, admet le mafioso, sans plus.

Le juge Garaufis est satisfait du témoignage de Rizzuto, bien qu’il soit très succinct, et accepte sa réponse. Il reporte le prononcé de la sentence de trois semaines. À la sortie de la salle d’audience, l’avocat John W. Mitchell déclare aux journalistes que son client n’a pas tout perdu, qu’il n’a pas admis son appartenance à la famille Bonanno et que cela est très important pour lui. L’avocat l’écrira d’ailleurs un peu plus tard dans une série d’objections à un «rapport présentenciel : « Le défendeur s’objecte à ce qu’il soit décrit comme un “soldat” de la famille criminelle Bonanno. Même s’il a plaidé coupable à des crimes commis dans un contexte d’association, il nie être ou avoir été membre de cette famille. Après le 5 mai 1981, il n’a pas été un membre ni même un associé de la famille Bonanno.»

Mais durant les dernières années à New York, le délateur Salvatore Vitale avait témoigné que Vito Rizzuto avait été le premier à ouvrir le feu à New York, en 1981. Il a aussi décrit le chef de la mafia montréalaise comme le plus puissant au Canada et mentionné qu’il était plus particulièrement associé à la famille Bonanno.

Do you belong to a criminal organization? continued the magistrate.

– Yes, admits the mafioso, without more.

Judge Garaufis is satisfied with Rizzuto's testimony, although very succinct, and accepts his answer. He postpones sentencing for three weeks. Exiting the courtroom, attorney John W. Mitchell tells reporters that his client hasn't lost everything, that he hasn't admitted to being a member of the Bonanno family and that this is very important for him. The lawyer will write it a little later in a series of objections to a “pre-sentence report: “The defendant objects to his being described as a “soldier” of the Bonanno crime family. Although he pleaded guilty to crimes committed in an association context, he denies being or having been a member of this family. After May 5, 1981, he was not a member or even an associate of the Bonanno family."

But in recent years in New York, informer Salvatore Vitale testified that Vito Rizzuto was the first to open fire in New York, in 1981. He also described the Montreal mob boss as the most powerful in Canada and mentioned that he was particularly associated with the Bonanno family.

[chin_gigante]

So...as of 1981, Vito wasn't a made guy yet? Did he ever get inducted? This is pretty big....

I think it's just him denying that he was ever a member or associate, which is obviously a lie considering the multiple other member sources who have testified that he was.

[CabriniGreen]

So...as of 1981, Vito wasn't a made guy yet? Did he ever get inducted? This is pretty big....

I think it's just him denying that he was ever a member or associate, which is obviously a lie considering the multiple other member sources who have testified that he was.

Aah, ok. A statement for the courts and lawyers. Got it....

[antimafia]

So...as of 1981, Vito wasn't a made guy yet? Did he ever get inducted? This is pretty big....

I think it's just him denying that he was ever a member or associate, which is obviously a lie considering the multiple other member sources who have testified that he was.

Rhetorical questions: Do we posters want to merely gather all the “statements” we have from Bonanno members about Montreal but without interpreting the “statements”? Do we want individual posters to disqualify “statements” from Bonanno members they don’t deem reliable? Do we want “statements” only from Bonanno members who provide information under oath or on a wire? Do we want individual posters to disqualify “statements” provided to members of Canadian law-enforcement agencies? When two or more member sources provide “statements” that conflict with one another, do we posters assert which source is being truthful, based solely on our biases? Do we want to disqualify “statements” from member sources who failed polygraph tests, even tests that the member sources volunteered to take?

What do I think unites Vitale, Massino, Cicale, and Rizzuto as member sources? All shrewd. Sometimes you clearly see how lying is in their DNA.

And let’s not dismiss the fact that some of these member sources have spiteful reasons to later contradict another member source, despite the fact a couple of them originally got their stories straight when it came to murders of Canadian Bonanno members.

[antimafia]

So...as of 1981, Vito wasn't a made guy yet? Did he ever get inducted? This is pretty big....

I think it's just him denying that he was ever a member or associate, which is obviously a lie considering the multiple other member sources who have testified that he was.

Aah, ok. A statement for the courts and lawyers. Got it....

Agree with you both.

I think all of Rizzuto’s “statements” are actually quotes from the 1st ed. of Lamothe and Humphreys’s The Sixth Family.

[antimafia]

Credit goes to SonnyBlackstein for the details below, which he provided on the previous incarnation of The Black Hand Forum, of Dominick Cicale’s interaction on January 9, 2015 with commenters who posed questions to Cicale on Ed Scarpo’s site:

DC: "Actually they separated when Vito came home and when Sal the iron work was killed.
So, yes I would have to say they are now the sixth family... WITH BALL....."

DC: "I would have to say they broke off"

Poster: "That was only 4 years ago, though. What about before? Some estimations say that Rizzuto's broke over 10-15 years ago."

DC: "How if Vito was still sending down money to the Bonanno family up until 2006.

https://www.cosanostranews.com/2015/01/ ... icale.html

[B.]

I don't think there are any rules as to how people should/shouldn't respond to the info here haha, but there's obviously a difference between a non-cooperator like Vito Rizzuto making statements to authorities vs. full-on cooperating witnesses giving testimony under oath. Rizzuto's statements are worthy of inclusion here since he was a Bonanno member commenting on Montreal but his statements are akin to what a defense attorney would say.

--

Frank Lino's testimony indicates there was an attempt to strengthen the relationship with Montreal after Galante's murder. It doesn't seem to have been particularly weak in the immediate aftermath, though:

1980 - Vito Rizzuto and Joe LoPresti attend the Pippo Bono wedding with Sciascia and many Bonanno members.
Pre-1981? - Frank Lino, Bruno Indelicato, and Tommy Pitera go to Montreal.
1981 - Gerlando Sciascia is a capodecina who brings Montreal figures down for the three captains murder. Sciascia joins the ruling panel afterward.
Pre-1992 - Joe LoPresti is acting capodecina for Sciascia and liaison between NYC/Montreal.
1990s - Sciascia rejoins the ruling panel after a period not being part of it (likely due to his previous legal trouble).
Pre-1999 - Vito Rizzuto is acting capodecina for Sciascia.

There was also the early 1990s murder where the leadership wanted Sciascia to bring Montreal figures down but he said it couldn't be done and chose Baldo Amato to participate instead. Sciascia was chastised for violating protocol by recruiting a member from another decina but they ultimately allowed Amato to do the murder.

Frank Fiordilino doesn't know much about Montreal but did say he knew the Montreal members to visit NYC for social events involving the NYC Sicilian faction. Frank was active mainly in the 1990s so that is probably the period he was referring to. The 1990s seem to be the most sparse as far as info about known interactions/connections.

[B.]

I no longer have the original testimony itself, but here is my summary of what Vitale said about Sciascia during the Asaro trial:

- Vitale was very fond of Gerlando Sciascia and says he would have made a good boss.

- Vitale says that he (Vitale) and Sciascia were "servicing" the family's captains leading up to Sciascia's murder. Vitale was of the opinion himself that Tony Graziano was on drugs every time they met him, as Graziano slurred his words and his eyes were glassy. Vitale reported this to Massino, who denied it and said Graziano was "sick" and on stomach medication. Vitale however continued to insist Graziano was "stoned" and that he should be demoted as captain but Massino resisted. Vitale says Sciascia was not part of these conversations with Massino. Note, but Michael DiLeonardo has also said he believed Graziano appeared to be on drugs during this time.

- Eventually Vitale says he gave up the Graziano beef and "smiled and went along with" Massino, but Sciascia met up with Massino later and continued to press the Graziano issue. When Anthony Spero went to prison, Vitale says Massino was going to put Graziano in as consigliere but Sciascia registered a beef about it and challenged Massino's decision, saying Graziano is a "junky". I know Vitale has previously said Sciascia raised an issue with Graziano, but this is the first time I have seen it specifically stated that Sciascia opposed Graziano taking the consigliere position.

- Vitale says he believes the above led to Sciascia's murder, but he admits he doesn't know for sure why Massino ordered the murder. He adds that there could have been an underlying reason for the murder and is just going by what he was told. He also says he doesn't believe some things that Massino told him. This definitely lends itself to Massino's reason for the Sciascia murder (retaliation for murdering Frank Cotroni's son), as Vitale says clearly he's not sure what the "underlying reason" for the Sciascia murder was.

- In addition to Vitale, captains Patty DeFilippo and Tony Urso met with Massino prior to the Sciascia murder and were included in the plot. Urso provided the weapon that was used in the murder.

- When asked if Massino staged the Sciascia murder as an unsanctioned drug-related murder due to fear of "backlash" from the Canadian Bonanno members, Vitale says he believes the murder was staged at least in part so that the FBI wouldn't be able to figure it out. When asked to clarify, he says it was staged both because of law enforcement and because Sciascia was "very powerful up there" in Canada and "had some really serious individuals." Vitale feels Massino sent all of the captains and many members to the funeral (which went against his usual funeral rules) as a showing to the FBI that the Bonannos didn't sanction the murder.

- Vitale doesn't know what kind of an earner Sciascia was, as he says he never received money from Sciascia.

Note that Joe Massino acknowledged the beef Sciascia made about Graziano's drug use and said it led to him (Massino) cautioning Graziano. However he says he wasn't angry with Sciascia about it because Sciascia was "just doing his job." He denied telling Richie Cantarella that the Graziano situation influenced the murder.

What's interesting is in the Asaro trial Vitale said he was the one who first pushed the Graziano issue with Massino, not Sciascia. Sciascia registered his own beef about it separately when Massino wanted Graziano to become consigliere.

Also I made a mistake earlier -- it was the Asaro trial where Vitale testified he couldn't remember who LoPresti was, while earlier I said it was during the Basciano trial.

[OcSleeper]

1980 - Vito Rizzuto and Joe LoPresti attend the Pippo Bono wedding with Sciascia and many Bonanno members.
Pre-1981? - Frank Lino, Bruno Indelicato, and Tommy Pitera go to Montreal.
1981 - Gerlando Sciascia is a capodecina who brings Montreal figures down for the three captains murder. Sciascia joins the ruling panel afterward.
Pre-1992 - Joe LoPresti is acting capodecina for Sciascia and liaison between NYC/Montreal.
1990s - Sciascia rejoins the ruling panel after a period not being part of it (likely due to his previous legal trouble).
Pre-1999 - Vito Rizzuto is acting capodecina for Sciascia.

Valentino Morielli was also said to have acted as the go-between between Montreal and NY after LoPresti was killed.

[B.]

Thanks OC.

Another early 1980s interaction is what Joe Pistone said about his beef with Tony Mirra. If I remember right, Mirra accused "Brasco" of dealing drugs and brought someone from Montreal down to support his claim.