Zerilli also contemplated stepping down to consig while pushing for Mike Polizzi to be Boss and his son Tony Z to under. I don't recall reading that he was pushing for his son to take over. There were reports of people saying that Tony Z was widely disliked and would never succeed his father.B. wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 4:52 pm One new thing I saw (can't remember if I mentioned it), is Bomp followed up on the rumor he heard from Moceri about Joe Zerilli stepping down to become a "consigliere of power". Moceri later told him that Zerilli realized how unpopular his son Tony was in the Family and decided against stepping down because the election of a new boss would not go in their favor. Seems Zerilli stayed put because it was more beneficial for his son at that time.
This is also important because it shows Zerilli didn't have absolute authority over the boss election (we have this idea that guys like Zerilli could simply "choose" the next boss, though we know that did happen sometimes) and the election was subject to some kind of democratic process that would be influenced by other factions. We have numerous reports about how Priziola for example represented his own faction and he was the chairman / secretary of their consiglio so it makes sense Zerilli didn't have absolute control over the direction of the Family should he step down.
I don't know what Scott B thinks, but my take is Priziola was an equal of Joe Zerilli and even though he was not the boss his position was enough to balance the Family's power on both a defacto and official level. Not a coincidence he was chairman of the council.
Confirmation of Chicago Consiglio 1969
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Re: Confirmation of Chicago Consiglio 1969
Re: Confirmation of Chicago Consiglio 1969
We know the term "Don" isn't organizational but when Vinny Teresa described something like the consiglio in Boston he called them the "Dons".
DeRose of Chicago said "caporegime" was interchangeable with "Don" in Chicago, but I'm also wondering if there was a tendency to refer to consiglio members this way. Regardless of rank they were seen as elders and senior figures -- it would make sense to call them Dons even though that term could apply to any senior or respected figure.
DeRose of Chicago said "caporegime" was interchangeable with "Don" in Chicago, but I'm also wondering if there was a tendency to refer to consiglio members this way. Regardless of rank they were seen as elders and senior figures -- it would make sense to call them Dons even though that term could apply to any senior or respected figure.
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Re: Confirmation of Chicago Consiglio 1969
Now we're moving into really speculative territory. When Willie Bioff was allegedly called to Nitto's mansion (c. 1934) for a meeting with the outfit upper brass, he named Nitto, Ricca, Phil D'Andrea, Charlie Gioe, and Louie Campagna as present. We don't know if these men constituted the Consiglio at that time, but they'd all be good bets. Rio, who died in '35, could also obviously be one, as well as Frankie Maritote. That would make 7, though we also have no idea if some of the older Sicilian members may have been elders on the Consiglio during that time, instead of some of the better-known names here.
In 1934, Imburgio was President of the Village Council of Melrose Park and President of the IANU ("Unione"), so he was already a very important man. Maybe the Consiglio favored elders, and the 30-something-year-old Imburgio wasn't at the point of his tenure to be on the Consiglio at this time; I think it's a very strong bet that he was later.PolackTony wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 4:24 pm On the subject of Chicago consiglieri.
From David P. Schippers's forward to M.D. Jones's 2019 book "Hoodlum Lawyer", on Joe Imburgio (Jones is Imburgio's grandson):
It should be noted that Schippers was a former Assistant US SA who was the Chief of the US DOJ's Special Organized Crime Unit during the 1960s. He was actively involved in investigating Imburgio and was also the guy who gave Giancana immunity from self-incrimination, leading to the latter's contempt charges in 1965.In the background, though, mostly unfamiliar to the average citizen, there existed a comparatively shadowy member of the Outfit in whom the highest echelon of the Mafia bestowed almost unquestioning trust and confidence. Insiders referred to this person as the "consigliere"[.] The individual who held this position until his mysterious death was [...] Joseph Imburgio Bulger.
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Re: Confirmation of Chicago Consiglio 1969
Just to add to Imburgio, he was later President of the "Unione" again, from at least 1947 to 1962, and perhaps until his death in 1966.PolackTony wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 8:11 pmNow we're moving into really speculative territory. When Willie Bioff was allegedly called to Nitto's mansion (c. 1934) for a meeting with the outfit upper brass, he named Nitto, Ricca, Phil D'Andrea, Charlie Gioe, and Louie Campagna as present. We don't know if these men constituted the Consiglio at that time, but they'd all be good bets. Rio, who died in '35, could also obviously be one, as well as Frankie Maritote. That would make 7, though we also have no idea if some of the older Sicilian members may have been elders on the Consiglio during that time, instead of some of the better-known names here.
In 1934, Imburgio was President of the Village Council of Melrose Park and President of the IANU ("Unione"), so he was already a very important man. Maybe the Consiglio favored elders, and the 30-something-year-old Imburgio wasn't at the point of his tenure to be on the Consiglio at this time; I think it's a very strong bet that he was later.PolackTony wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 4:24 pm On the subject of Chicago consiglieri.
From David P. Schippers's forward to M.D. Jones's 2019 book "Hoodlum Lawyer", on Joe Imburgio (Jones is Imburgio's grandson):
It should be noted that Schippers was a former Assistant US SA who was the Chief of the US DOJ's Special Organized Crime Unit during the 1960s. He was actively involved in investigating Imburgio and was also the guy who gave Giancana immunity from self-incrimination, leading to the latter's contempt charges in 1965.In the background, though, mostly unfamiliar to the average citizen, there existed a comparatively shadowy member of the Outfit in whom the highest echelon of the Mafia bestowed almost unquestioning trust and confidence. Insiders referred to this person as the "consigliere"[.] The individual who held this position until his mysterious death was [...] Joseph Imburgio Bulger.
"Hey, hey, hey — this is America, baby! Survival of the fittest.”
Re: Confirmation of Chicago Consiglio 1969
A member informant in a different city said another term for consigliere is "statesman". In the report it was phrased "consuleri" (plural) so not sure if he meant the official consigliere or the consiglio members.
Re: Confirmation of Chicago Consiglio 1969
Wow, first I've ever heard of Joseph Imburgio. Do we have any other references, law enforcement or newspaper perhaps, that refer to him anywhere? I couldn't' find anything.PolackTony wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 8:11 pmNow we're moving into really speculative territory. When Willie Bioff was allegedly called to Nitto's mansion (c. 1934) for a meeting with the outfit upper brass, he named Nitto, Ricca, Phil D'Andrea, Charlie Gioe, and Louie Campagna as present. We don't know if these men constituted the Consiglio at that time, but they'd all be good bets. Rio, who died in '35, could also obviously be one, as well as Frankie Maritote. That would make 7, though we also have no idea if some of the older Sicilian members may have been elders on the Consiglio during that time, instead of some of the better-known names here.
In 1934, Imburgio was President of the Village Council of Melrose Park and President of the IANU ("Unione"), so he was already a very important man. Maybe the Consiglio favored elders, and the 30-something-year-old Imburgio wasn't at the point of his tenure to be on the Consiglio at this time; I think it's a very strong bet that he was later.PolackTony wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 4:24 pm On the subject of Chicago consiglieri.
From David P. Schippers's forward to M.D. Jones's 2019 book "Hoodlum Lawyer", on Joe Imburgio (Jones is Imburgio's grandson):
It should be noted that Schippers was a former Assistant US SA who was the Chief of the US DOJ's Special Organized Crime Unit during the 1960s. He was actively involved in investigating Imburgio and was also the guy who gave Giancana immunity from self-incrimination, leading to the latter's contempt charges in 1965.In the background, though, mostly unfamiliar to the average citizen, there existed a comparatively shadowy member of the Outfit in whom the highest echelon of the Mafia bestowed almost unquestioning trust and confidence. Insiders referred to this person as the "consigliere"[.] The individual who held this position until his mysterious death was [...] Joseph Imburgio Bulger.
@polacktony....did you read the book?
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Re: Confirmation of Chicago Consiglio 1969
He legally changed his name to Joseph Imburgio Bulger, and so you'll see plenty of references to him as "Joseph I. Bulger", or "Joe Bulger", from the '40s on. Died in a plane crash en route to Miami in 1966.Coloboy wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 11:22 amWow, first I've ever heard of Joseph Imburgio. Do we have any other references, law enforcement or newspaper perhaps, that refer to him anywhere? I couldn't' find anything.PolackTony wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 8:11 pmNow we're moving into really speculative territory. When Willie Bioff was allegedly called to Nitto's mansion (c. 1934) for a meeting with the outfit upper brass, he named Nitto, Ricca, Phil D'Andrea, Charlie Gioe, and Louie Campagna as present. We don't know if these men constituted the Consiglio at that time, but they'd all be good bets. Rio, who died in '35, could also obviously be one, as well as Frankie Maritote. That would make 7, though we also have no idea if some of the older Sicilian members may have been elders on the Consiglio during that time, instead of some of the better-known names here.
In 1934, Imburgio was President of the Village Council of Melrose Park and President of the IANU ("Unione"), so he was already a very important man. Maybe the Consiglio favored elders, and the 30-something-year-old Imburgio wasn't at the point of his tenure to be on the Consiglio at this time; I think it's a very strong bet that he was later.PolackTony wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 4:24 pm On the subject of Chicago consiglieri.
From David P. Schippers's forward to M.D. Jones's 2019 book "Hoodlum Lawyer", on Joe Imburgio (Jones is Imburgio's grandson):
It should be noted that Schippers was a former Assistant US SA who was the Chief of the US DOJ's Special Organized Crime Unit during the 1960s. He was actively involved in investigating Imburgio and was also the guy who gave Giancana immunity from self-incrimination, leading to the latter's contempt charges in 1965.In the background, though, mostly unfamiliar to the average citizen, there existed a comparatively shadowy member of the Outfit in whom the highest echelon of the Mafia bestowed almost unquestioning trust and confidence. Insiders referred to this person as the "consigliere"[.] The individual who held this position until his mysterious death was [...] Joseph Imburgio Bulger.
@polacktony....did you read the book?
I'm working on something about him currently, which I'll post when ready.
"Hey, hey, hey — this is America, baby! Survival of the fittest.”
Re: Confirmation of Chicago Consiglio 1969
Imburgio was involved with the 1943 case that resulted in the convictions of the Outfit hierarchy and made regular visits to Ricca while he was locked up. Accardo also made some visits using Imburgio's forged name. So he was part of the legal team to get them out.
Re: Confirmation of Chicago Consiglio 1969
Got it. Thanks to both.
Re: Confirmation of Chicago Consiglio 1969
Since we have Alderisio telling Bomp that he and Caifano had been soldiers direct with Giancana, this report from 6 years earlier in 1963 fits:
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Re: Confirmation of Chicago Consiglio 1969
In his book, Frattiano also stated that Frabotta was a soldier direct with Accardo when he first met him in 1953. Frabotta has always seemed like Alderisio and Caifano, in that he seemed to operate in multiple territories in a way that didn’t fully line up with a specific crew. To be clear, I mean Caifano before the 70s, when he was a soldier in the Lombardo crew, of course.
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Re: Confirmation of Chicago Consiglio 1969
There's other documents that make it clear that Caifano and Alderisio were under Battaglia. I think that when Giancana was boss he pulled members of the Battaglia crew (and the Buccieri and Daddono crews) and used them like they were his own. Here's an example where Alderisio and Caifano got into a fight and Battaglia couldn't settle it. Even Giancana couldn't resolve it (but I wonder how hard he tried), so it was passed on to Frank Ferraro to take care of it. Murray Humphreys, who shares an office with Ferraro, gives him advice. What this document shows is that Alderisio and Caifano were in Battaglia's crew, but instead of going up the chain of command the issue is taken straight to Giancana, who throws it down to Ferraro.
With what's in the Fratianno book, it doesn't contain real dialogues. Fratianno was recalling conversations from thirty to forty years early and telling what he remembered to Ovid Demaris, who wrote them down in his notes. Then Demaris recreated conversations out of the notes. In the "conversation" in the The Last Mafioso it's John Rosselli telling Fratianno who was direct to Accardo and Giancana. I'm not saying the conversation isn't useful, but it may not be perfectly accurate and since it's going through several hands it doesn't carry as much weight as Fratianno saying something on the witness stand.
Getting back to the doc, it's interesting to note that Battaglia's crew was called an "outfit." It seems that within the in-house terminology during that period each crew was an "outfit" and the overall Chicago organization of made members was called "the clique." I don't think these were official terms, just their everyday vocabulary.
With what's in the Fratianno book, it doesn't contain real dialogues. Fratianno was recalling conversations from thirty to forty years early and telling what he remembered to Ovid Demaris, who wrote them down in his notes. Then Demaris recreated conversations out of the notes. In the "conversation" in the The Last Mafioso it's John Rosselli telling Fratianno who was direct to Accardo and Giancana. I'm not saying the conversation isn't useful, but it may not be perfectly accurate and since it's going through several hands it doesn't carry as much weight as Fratianno saying something on the witness stand.
Getting back to the doc, it's interesting to note that Battaglia's crew was called an "outfit." It seems that within the in-house terminology during that period each crew was an "outfit" and the overall Chicago organization of made members was called "the clique." I don't think these were official terms, just their everyday vocabulary.
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Re: Confirmation of Chicago Consiglio 1969
What's significant about Fratianno saying Caifano and Alderisio were direct with Giancana is that Bompensiero reported identical info years earlier and said Alderisio gave the info to both him and Fratianno. That adds immense weight to Fratianno's recollection.
Very possible Alderisio and Caifano were under Battaglia and direct with Giancana at different times. These formal arrangements are prone to change and the issue discussed on the Ferraro tape could well have contributed to Caifano and Alderisio being taken out of Battaglia's crew and placed with Giancana.
Very possible Alderisio and Caifano were under Battaglia and direct with Giancana at different times. These formal arrangements are prone to change and the issue discussed on the Ferraro tape could well have contributed to Caifano and Alderisio being taken out of Battaglia's crew and placed with Giancana.
Re: Confirmation of Chicago Consiglio 1969
Outfit was used for both Families and crews around the country -- definitely a casual term and the members knew the intended meaning based on context. Caramandi in Philly even mentioned how his crew of associates was referred to as an "outfit". Like most Families, Chicago used a bunch of different terms for the different components of the Family and there doesn't seem to have been confusion over the meaning among members inside and outside of Chicago.
Members will also refer to a Family as a "crew", just as both a decina or a group of associates under a soldier are often called crews. It's easy to get sidetracked by all the euphemisms but the context is what's most important. Another example is Chicago using "sotto capo" within a decina, a term we normally only associate with its literal translation of underboss, but Calabrese cleared it up in his testimony by explaining it was identical to acting captain when used in context with a decina.
With clique, Crapisi said in Kansas City the Family was referred to as the clique, the syndicate, or just "the boys". No different in meaning from calling it a Family, borgata, outfit, etc.
Members will also refer to a Family as a "crew", just as both a decina or a group of associates under a soldier are often called crews. It's easy to get sidetracked by all the euphemisms but the context is what's most important. Another example is Chicago using "sotto capo" within a decina, a term we normally only associate with its literal translation of underboss, but Calabrese cleared it up in his testimony by explaining it was identical to acting captain when used in context with a decina.
With clique, Crapisi said in Kansas City the Family was referred to as the clique, the syndicate, or just "the boys". No different in meaning from calling it a Family, borgata, outfit, etc.
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Re: Confirmation of Chicago Consiglio 1969
We see “outfit” in Chicago and other cities used contextually to refer to a crew, a borgata, or the mafia in general (e.g., a Chicago CI who referenced Vito Genovese as an example of “an outfit guy”). Similar to how Chicago associate Gerry DeNono seems to refer to crews as “families” in that old Crime, Inc documentary.B. wrote: ↑Fri Sep 16, 2022 10:30 am Outfit was used for both Families and crews around the country -- definitely a casual term and the members knew the intended meaning based on context. Caramandi in Philly even mentioned how his crew of associates was referred to as an "outfit". Like most Families, Chicago used a bunch of different terms for the different components of the Family and there doesn't seem to have been confusion over the meaning among members inside and outside of Chicago.
Members will also refer to a Family as a "crew", just as both a decina or a group of associates under a soldier are often called crews. It's easy to get sidetracked by all the euphemisms but the context is what's most important. Another example is Chicago using "sotto capo" within a decina, a term we normally only associate with its literal translation of underboss, but Calabrese cleared it up in his testimony by explaining it was identical to acting captain when used in context with a decina.
With clique, Crapisi said in Kansas City the Family was referred to as the clique, the syndicate, or just "the boys". No different in meaning from calling it a Family, borgata, outfit, etc.
There wasn’t one name for the organization of course. The family, the mafia, the clique, the outfit, the syndicate, the organization, the life, our people, “one of our own”. All of these were evidently in circulation during the period in question and any would’ve been readily understand given the context of speech.
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