Extortion 2022

[PolackTony]

Figured if the mob wanted to really put the fear of god into people they would just make victims quietly disappear forever, like what happened with Ralph Coppola. Not sure if this is logistically possible in this day and age though.

In Chicago you had Tony Zizzo in 2006 and Tony Catalano in 2009. Both disappeared without a trace, and not ancient history.

Right. So... has "forensic science" advanced so much since 2009 that no one could be disappeared like Zizzo and Catalano? I'm skeptical.

I think these guys still have the mystique of violence hanging over them. As someone on here said (think it was pizzaboy/East Bronx), "Even if they only kill one guy every five years, no one wants to be that guy."

So Tony how do you think the Outfit went about making guys fall off the face of the earth in the 21st century? Probably just quietly buried them somewhere remote using guys whose trustworthiness was beyond question, I guess?

Presumably.

Even if they leave bodies, they can apparently leave them well enough to not get caught. When Catalano vanished, his partner Mike DiFillipis was also found brutally murdered in his condo. So far as I know, LE has never had any suspects and it remains a cold case. Another thing could be murders that look like other murders. When Grand Ave crew associate Chuckie Russell got caught buying a bunch of weapons from an undercover ATF agent, he showed the guy a photo of a car riddled with bullets and the drivers license of a black dude. It was subsequently confirmed that the guy was murdered on the Westside in 2016 and the murder has never been solved. Only about 30% of the hundreds of homicides that occur in Chicago every year are ever solved (and that’s just the city), so even if they don’t disappear the bodies, a mob-related murder or two every now and then would just be a drop in a huge bucket of blood. I’ve heard about another murder much more recently where a young gang member was murdered by the outfit who shot his car up on the Westside. The murder was simply reported in the news as yet another gang-related homicide.

[Ivan]

Even if they leave bodies, they can apparently leave them well enough to not get caught. When Catalano vanished, his partner Mike DiFillipis was also found brutally murdered in his condo. So far as I know, LE has never had any suspects and it remains a cold case. Another thing could be murders that look like other murders. When Grand Ave crew associate Chuckie Russell got caught buying a bunch of weapons from an undercover ATF agent, he showed the guy a photo of a car riddled with bullets and the drivers license of a black dude. It was subsequently confirmed that the guy was murdered on the Westside in 2016 and the murder has never been solved. Only about 30% of the hundreds of homicides that occur in Chicago every year are ever solved (and that’s just the city), so even if they don’t disappear the bodies, a mob-related murder or two every now and then would just be a drop in a huge bucket of blood. I’ve heard about another murder much more recently where a young gang member was murdered by the outfit who shot his car up on the Westside. The murder was simply reported in the news as yet another gang-related homicide.

Interesting. Where can I learn more about that Russell incident? And when did that last incident happen?

[PolackTony]

Even if they leave bodies, they can apparently leave them well enough to not get caught. When Catalano vanished, his partner Mike DiFillipis was also found brutally murdered in his condo. So far as I know, LE has never had any suspects and it remains a cold case. Another thing could be murders that look like other murders. When Grand Ave crew associate Chuckie Russell got caught buying a bunch of weapons from an undercover ATF agent, he showed the guy a photo of a car riddled with bullets and the drivers license of a black dude. It was subsequently confirmed that the guy was murdered on the Westside in 2016 and the murder has never been solved. Only about 30% of the hundreds of homicides that occur in Chicago every year are ever solved (and that’s just the city), so even if they don’t disappear the bodies, a mob-related murder or two every now and then would just be a drop in a huge bucket of blood. I’ve heard about another murder much more recently where a young gang member was murdered by the outfit who shot his car up on the Westside. The murder was simply reported in the news as yet another gang-related homicide.

Interesting. Where can I learn more about that Russell incident? And when did that last incident happen?

The recent incident happened in the last couple of years.

Several articles were written about Chuckie Russell. He did a lot of time in the joint for murder in the 1970s and his longtime girlfriend was a Spilotro. He was a very nasty individual, who I believe had been a C-Note (as his buddies Albie Vena, Bobby Panozzo, and Paulie Koroluk had been).

https://chicago.suntimes.com/2016/12/22 ... y-feds-say

Another cold case that was likely mob-related was Norbert “Tank” Velez, a gang member who was allegedly a collector/enforcer for the outfit. He was shot to death in his apartment, which happened to be across the hall from Grand Ave associate Jeff Hollingshead’s apartment.

Discussion of these and some other possibly mob-related murders here:
viewtopic.php?p=180325#p180325

[Moscone65]

Hey polacktony, any more details on that young gang member you heard was recently killed? Any idea why?

[Coloboy]

I'm sure there are elements within the current day Outfit that still have the willingness and capability to take people out. However, based on what information we have it seems to be a last ditch effort kind of strategy and one that is used extremely rarely.

It is unlikely we will ever see something like the Zizzo hit again, where we have an easily definable high ranking outfit member so clearly taken out. I would imagine that the first rule of any possible hit is an almost complete un-traceability back to outfit members. Looking at two of the instances talked about above (Norbert Velez and the Chuckie Russell gangbanger target), both of those guys were not easily traced back to the outfit, and could theoretically be victims of any type of gang or drug violence. Also, We have Albie Vena on a wire via Steve Mandell clearly refusing to approve a hit request from Mandell (I believe this was around 2010 or so) based on the fact that it would bring too much heat. My assumption in this instance is because he felt the guy was too easily traced back to the outfit.

Secondly, I would think that the target would have to be someone who was really screwing up possible revenue production or earning potential in a big way. No one is getting killed over a 10K loan or a personal insult for example.

[Ivan]

I'm sure there are elements within the current day Outfit that still have the willingness and capability to take people out. However, based on what information we have it seems to be a last ditch effort kind of strategy and one that is used extremely rarely.

Yeah and it would get the job done as far as deterrence goes. Like in that quote from earlier, "Even if they only kill one guy every five years, no one wants to be that guy."

I still think making people vanish would be the ultimate deterrent -- that shit is fucking spooky. One day a guy is around and the next he's just... gone.

[PolackTony]

Hey polacktony, any more details on that young gang member you heard was recently killed? Any idea why?

Antiliar discussed it on the Chicago thread.

Someone who shall remain anonymous shared some info with me. I can't vouch for any of it, and I won't get into how he knows this. Anyways, I thought I would share the info with the group.

He said that Solly D is running the Outfit and Sal Cautadella is his underboss. He said Jimmy I stays in the background of the Cicero crew and Louis Rainone calls the shots. A guy named Joe Guarino is a heavy hitter for Rainone. The killing of Anthony Catalano was because he tried to steal a truck from the Cicero guys and Jimmy I ordered his death. In 2020 a guy named Bobby English (no relation - as far as he knows - to Chuckie English) was killed for the same reason.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/2020 ... e-flournoy
https://www.facebook.com/lhfirm/posts/y ... 838050953/

Bobby English, Jr, was a member of the 12th St Players, an historically Italian gang in Cicero/Berwyn affiliated with the People alliance. His father is a high-ranking leader in the organization who is currently incarcerated. Louie Rainone and Joe Guarino (as well as Paulie Carparelli, who was probably shelved) were 12th St Players as well. Additionally, Antiliar’s source claimed that the Cicero crew whacked another family member, Billy English, recently for “stealing”.

I'm sure there are elements within the current day Outfit that still have the willingness and capability to take people out. However, based on what information we have it seems to be a last ditch effort kind of strategy and one that is used extremely rarely.

It is unlikely we will ever see something like the Zizzo hit again, where we have an easily definable high ranking outfit member so clearly taken out. I would imagine that the first rule of any possible hit is an almost complete un-traceability back to outfit members. Looking at two of the instances talked about above (Norbert Velez and the Chuckie Russell gangbanger target), both of those guys were not easily traced back to the outfit, and could theoretically be victims of any type of gang or drug violence. Also, We have Albie Vena on a wire via Steve Mandell clearly refusing to approve a hit request from Mandell (I believe this was around 2010 or so) based on the fact that it would bring too much heat. My assumption in this instance is because he felt the guy was too easily traced back to the outfit.

Secondly, I would think that the target would have to be someone who was really screwing up possible revenue production or earning potential in a big way. No one is getting killed over a 10K loan or a personal insult for example.

Agreed they we’re unlikely to see another Zizzo-type incident.

My take is that they have some very rough criminal types working under them, and periodically have to take one of those guys out to keep them in line. Gangbangers like Velez and English, or drug dealers like Catalano and DeFillipis, are the types who if these individuals wind up murdered, no one is going to be very surprised. If Antiliar’s source is accurate, then it certainly seems that they will drop these guys for something as relatively low-level as stealing a car from a made guy. So one has to wonder what they’d do if someone threatened to flip on them.

I'm sure there are elements within the current day Outfit that still have the willingness and capability to take people out. However, based on what information we have it seems to be a last ditch effort kind of strategy and one that is used extremely rarely.

Yeah and it would get the job done as far as deterrence goes. Like in that quote from earlier, "Even if they only kill one guy every five years, no one wants to be that guy."

I still think making people vanish would be the ultimate deterrent -- that shit is fucking spooky. One day a guy is around and the next he's just... gone.

Agreed on both points. I’ve said it before, but the modern-day Chicago outfit is not an organization that I’d play around with. They may be small and have a limited sphere of influence today, but they have some extremely nasty people within their circle and we have plenty of evidence to suggest that they will kill when they deem it necessary and feasible.

[Moscone65]

Oh the English guy yes I remember hearing about that on here, he was a young white guy. I assumed it was more recently (another hit) and that the guy was black

[PolackTony]

Oh the English guy yes I remember hearing about that on here, he was a young white guy. I assumed it was more recently (another hit) and that the guy was black

Yeah, hardcore white gangbanger kid from an outfit-connected family. Like the black dude that Chuckie Russell was bragging about, he got Swiss-cheesed up in a high-crime black neighborhood on the Westside.

[Ciro_DiMarzio]

2022 American LCN doesn't murder people anymore so how is it that the are able to extort business's, demand tribute, or even collect debts without the threat of real violence? why wouldn’t a guy into them for money just basically tell them to go fuck themselves?

Its a fair question because there has been so little hits in the past 10 years. I always wonder how they can keep everyone/everything in line without the bodies dropping. The intimidation and reputation factor obviously goes a long way but how much $$$ would they actually kill over. 20-30k? Seems unlikely. But then again they seem to make it work without all the murders so its obviously a last last resort.

Also they don't really target rats at all anymore from what I've read in the forum. And that is with their lives and freedom at stake. So why would they kill someone over a financial debt?

I've asked it before but how could they possibly not even consider targeting someone like Pennisi, with all the rumours that he is going to tesitfy in a future trial against the admin? Has Pennisi or any of the youtube rats ever said anything about being in fear in there day to day lives? Because they seem to live out in the open still in New York.

[Moscone65]

Oh the English guy yes I remember hearing about that on here, he was a young white guy. I assumed it was more recently (another hit) and that the guy was black

Yeah, hardcore white gangbanger kid from an outfit-connected family. Like the black dude that Chuckie Russell was bragging about, he got Swiss-cheesed up in a high-crime black neighborhood on the Westside.

Was he affiliated with the c notes, or just an independent kid?

[PolackTony]

Oh the English guy yes I remember hearing about that on here, he was a young white guy. I assumed it was more recently (another hit) and that the guy was black

Yeah, hardcore white gangbanger kid from an outfit-connected family. Like the black dude that Chuckie Russell was bragging about, he got Swiss-cheesed up in a high-crime black neighborhood on the Westside.

Was he affiliated with the c notes, or just an independent kid?

He was a 12th St Player, a gang based in Cicero and Berwyn. Completely unrelated to the C-Notes, but also an historically Italian streetgang.

[Ciro_DiMarzio]

Are these Italian street gangs still active in Chicago?

[PolackTony]

Are these Italian street gangs still active in Chicago?

Very much so, although the bulk of their current membership today is Latino (Mexican and PR).

[Ciro_DiMarzio]

Cool thanks