Alan "Grecco" Wolshonak

[B.]

When you get past defacto roles, it sounds like we have reason to question whether he was made. Have any sources outside of Cafaro specifically mentioned his membership status? Has the FBI referred to his status since those 1980s reports (which as we know have occasional errors)?

[eboli]

In an early 1980s report on Gatto, the FBI acknowledges that he runs his crew through Grecco.

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In a report years later, the New Jersey Commission of Investigation said Grecco was a Genovese member.

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[B.]

Thanks Eboli.

The first one sounds like an operational role (supervising gambling) but the second one is explicit about membership. Be great if we could get info direct from a member informant or witness verifying it. What's interesting about Cafaro's info is he doesn't only say Grecco wasn't a member but he specifically said he couldn't be a member due to his heritage, so it appears to be well-known. It was in the newspapers back then too so the public knew it as well.

I'm interested because, like Wiseguy said, inducting members who are only Italian on the mother's side is extremely rare and virtually nonexistent in NYC/NJ. The interesting thing too is the Genovese Family, despite being less traditional in their origins, seem to be orthodox in how they bring people in (they've always done the full ceremony, for example). I could believe Gatto was powerful enough to bring his son-in-law in and blur the rules (especially with the name change), but Grecco's Polish heritage was well-known and he still used the Wolshonak name so they couldn't have hidden it.

Here's a question: which Genovese members were Italian only on their father's side?

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Related to this...

Former undercover agent Jack Garcia believes Andy Campos is Puerto Rican on his father's side, as do some of the Bronx board members over the years, but it would mean not only did the Gambino Family induct a half-Puerto Rican but also a full one, as Campos' father is also made. I'm going to hold out until we have records that definitively prove his heritage, but I remain skeptical.

My understanding of Andy Knapik is he was adopted but his birth parents were Italian.

[eboli]

I think Cafaro was right about Grecco, and law enforcement got confused about his rank because they witnessed him bossing around made guys. If that was the case, it further confirms the organizational similarities between Chicago and the Genovese. In my opinion, Grecco not having an Italian father was the deal-breaker for his button. As you mentioned, by the time he filled the co-administrative role for Gatto, he already had an established reputation, and everybody knew his real name.

Also, it's interesting Cafaro was the person who stated with utmost confidence that Grecco was not a made member considering his mentor - Fat Tony - was instrumental in inducting George Barone into the family. Barone is probably the most well-known non-Italian Genovese. He was upfront with everybody and even loved to describe himself as a 'mutt' and a 'mongrel' because his mother was Irish-Hungarian. Barone said that everybody knew he wasn't fully Italian and that his non-LCN background and non-Italian heritage weren't a huge issue when he got proposed for membership. I'll check my notes if I have info about other Genovese with non-Italian roots because I can't remember anybody else off the top of my head. I definitely haven't seen anybody listed as a member whose father wasn't Italian.

Since you mentioned Knapik, if I remember correctly, he made up the story that he had Italian parents. The Merola name he adopted was allegedly his birth mother's maiden name, but he never found who his father was and just told everybody how he was a 100% Italian stallion. I believe Bob Buccino mentioned how he thought it was hilarious that the mob fell off so much that they started to induct non-Italians like Knapik.

[PolackTony]

I think Cafaro was right about Grecco, and law enforcement got confused about his rank because they witnessed him bossing around made guys. If that was the case, it further confirms the organizational similarities between Chicago and the Genovese. In my opinion, Grecco not having an Italian father was the deal-breaker for his button. As you mentioned, by the time he filled the co-administrative role for Gatto, he already had an established reputation, and everybody knew his real name.

Don’t want to veer off course, but given that you brought up the comparison, are there any specific instances you’re thinking of here where non-made guys “bossed around” made guys in Chicago? Apart from the FBI’s interpretation that Alderisio seemed “subservient” to Gus Alex on a 1960s wiretap, I’m not aware of any real evidence suggesting that this sort of thing occurred with Chicago. Alderisio was a soldier in the Battaglia crew at that time anyway, so Alex definitely wasn’t his “boss” and wasn’t even an associate of the same crew. Alex was in charge of political corruption affairs, of course, and any inferred “bossing” that the FBI interpreted there I read as “operational” stuff related to Alex’s legerdemain, and not at all an “organizational” relationship where Alderisio answered to Alex as his “boss”. There were, of course, Italian guys in Chicago who answered to non-Italian associates, but, so far as I’m aware, none of the guys were identified as made at those times (eg. Mario Rainone and Nick Gio with Lenny Patrick, the Di Caro Bros with Ralph Pierce).

On the subject of possible made guys with non-Italian fathers, over the years some have asserted that Dick Cain and Harry Aleman were made. FWIW, I’m not at all convinced. CIs from the 60s and Nicky Calabrese stated unequivocally that one had to be 100% Ital to be made in Chicago, and the only exception we know for sure where a guy who was non-Ital on his mother’s side was made was Jimmy Marcello (which IMO was fully explicable by the fact that he was raised by his Italian stepmother anyway). The basis for the idea that Cain was made, so far as I’m aware, rests solely on the fact that he personally told Bill Roemer that he was. With Aleman, an early 80s FBI CW identified him as “made”, but this guy also identified Frank Schweihs as “made”. Based on my research, the CW in question was Jack Walsh, who was not even an “associate” in the sense of belonging to a crew or working under a made guy. He was a shady construction contractor who the FBI got to wear a wire on City aldermen who were taking bribes for building permits. While the guy obviously knew outfit guys and had insight into criminal activities, he was presumably in no position at all to opine on mafia organizational dynamics. I think these two are like Wolshonak in that they had inside connections in the family where one might suspect that they could’ve been made as exceptions to the rule (if anyone could have been made without an Italian father, one would think it would be been guys like this).

[Newyorkempire]

Members only Italian on their mother's side is a very rare thing. Even those only Italian on their father's side are a small minority in the overall picture.

Apart Charles Potter in Pittsburgh,I don't know another made man italian only in the mother side.
Full blooded italians are rare today.

There is not such thing as full blooded Italian. If you talk about citizenship one can be Italian 100% based on birth. As far as actual blood, no such thing. Go back 1000 years and maybe you'll find some.

[eboli]

Don’t want to veer off course, but given that you brought up the comparison, are there any specific instances you’re thinking of here where non-made guys “bossed around” made guys in Chicago? Apart from the FBI’s interpretation that Alderisio seemed “subservient” to Gus Alex on a 1960s wiretap, I’m not aware of any real evidence suggesting that this sort of thing occurred with Chicago. Alderisio was a soldier in the Battaglia crew at that time anyway, so Alex definitely wasn’t his “boss” and wasn’t even an associate of the same crew. Alex was in charge of political corruption affairs, of course, and any inferred “bossing” that the FBI interpreted there I read as “operational” stuff related to Alex’s legerdemain, and not at all an “organizational” relationship where Alderisio answered to Alex as his “boss”. There were, of course, Italian guys in Chicago who answered to non-Italian associates, but, so far as I’m aware, none of the guys were identified as made at those times (eg. Mario Rainone and Nick Gio with Lenny Patrick, the Di Caro Bros with Ralph Pierce).

On the subject of possible made guys with non-Italian fathers, over the years some have asserted that Dick Cain and Harry Aleman were made. FWIW, I’m not at all convinced. CIs from the 60s and Nicky Calabrese stated unequivocally that one had to be 100% Ital to be made in Chicago, and the only exception we know for sure where a guy who was non-Ital on his mother’s side was made was Jimmy Marcello (which IMO was fully explicable by the fact that he was raised by his Italian stepmother anyway). The basis for the idea that Cain was made, so far as I’m aware, rests solely on the fact that he personally told Bill Roemer that he was. With Aleman, an early 80s FBI CW identified him as “made”, but this guy also identified Frank Schweihs as “made”. Based on my research, the CW in question was Jack Walsh, who was not even an “associate” in the sense of belonging to a crew or working under a made guy. He was a shady construction contractor who the FBI got to wear a wire on City aldermen who were taking bribes for building permits. While the guy obviously knew outfit guys and had insight into criminal activities, he was presumably in no position at all to opine on mafia organizational dynamics. I think these two are like Wolshonak in that they had inside connections in the family where one might suspect that they could’ve been made as exceptions to the rule (if anyone could have been made without an Italian father, one would think it would be been guys like this).

I actually had Alderisio and Alex in mind when I mentioned Grecco's role in the 80s. Also, I vaguely remember reading somewhere that Murray Humphreys sometimes ordered rank-and-file soldiers what to do. Not as in their direct superior, but when the situation required it. I suspect it's an apocryphal tale, but I remember reading it somewhere.

I don't know much about Aleman and his relationship with Ferriola, but as far as Wolshonak goes - it begs the question if there was a real need for him to get made. He was very successful, had the respect of his fellow wiseguys, and was reaping all of the benefits of being Gatto's son-in-law even without being a full-fledged Genovese member.

I never bought the claims that Cain was a made member. I just don't see it, especially 50-60 years ago. If the most reliable claim for his rank comes from his own mouth, he had many reasons to embellish his role.

[Wiseguy]

There is not such thing as full blooded Italian. If you talk about citizenship one can be Italian 100% based on birth. As far as actual blood, no such thing. Go back 1000 years and maybe you'll find some.

I think in this context it basically means both one's father and mother (maiden) have Italian last names.

Here's a question: which Genovese members were Italian only on their father's side?

Wasn't Albert Gallo, like his brothers, half-Irish (mother's side)?

Since you mentioned Knapik, if I remember correctly, he made up the story that he had Italian parents. The Merola name he adopted was allegedly his birth mother's maiden name, but he never found who his father was and just told everybody how he was a 100% Italian stallion. I believe Bob Buccino mentioned how he thought it was hilarious that the mob fell off so much that they started to induct non-Italians like Knapik.

There seems to be conflicting info on this. I've also read his mother's name was Merola but there's no info on his father.

[PolackTony]

Don’t want to veer off course, but given that you brought up the comparison, are there any specific instances you’re thinking of here where non-made guys “bossed around” made guys in Chicago? Apart from the FBI’s interpretation that Alderisio seemed “subservient” to Gus Alex on a 1960s wiretap, I’m not aware of any real evidence suggesting that this sort of thing occurred with Chicago. Alderisio was a soldier in the Battaglia crew at that time anyway, so Alex definitely wasn’t his “boss” and wasn’t even an associate of the same crew. Alex was in charge of political corruption affairs, of course, and any inferred “bossing” that the FBI interpreted there I read as “operational” stuff related to Alex’s legerdemain, and not at all an “organizational” relationship where Alderisio answered to Alex as his “boss”. There were, of course, Italian guys in Chicago who answered to non-Italian associates, but, so far as I’m aware, none of the guys were identified as made at those times (eg. Mario Rainone and Nick Gio with Lenny Patrick, the Di Caro Bros with Ralph Pierce).

On the subject of possible made guys with non-Italian fathers, over the years some have asserted that Dick Cain and Harry Aleman were made. FWIW, I’m not at all convinced. CIs from the 60s and Nicky Calabrese stated unequivocally that one had to be 100% Ital to be made in Chicago, and the only exception we know for sure where a guy who was non-Ital on his mother’s side was made was Jimmy Marcello (which IMO was fully explicable by the fact that he was raised by his Italian stepmother anyway). The basis for the idea that Cain was made, so far as I’m aware, rests solely on the fact that he personally told Bill Roemer that he was. With Aleman, an early 80s FBI CW identified him as “made”, but this guy also identified Frank Schweihs as “made”. Based on my research, the CW in question was Jack Walsh, who was not even an “associate” in the sense of belonging to a crew or working under a made guy. He was a shady construction contractor who the FBI got to wear a wire on City aldermen who were taking bribes for building permits. While the guy obviously knew outfit guys and had insight into criminal activities, he was presumably in no position at all to opine on mafia organizational dynamics. I think these two are like Wolshonak in that they had inside connections in the family where one might suspect that they could’ve been made as exceptions to the rule (if anyone could have been made without an Italian father, one would think it would be been guys like this).

I actually had Alderisio and Alex in mind when I mentioned Grecco's role in the 80s. Also, I vaguely remember reading somewhere that Murray Humphreys sometimes ordered rank-and-file soldiers what to do. Not as in their direct superior, but when the situation required it. I suspect it's an apocryphal tale, but I remember reading it somewhere.

I don't know much about Aleman and his relationship with Ferriola, but as far as Wolshonak goes - it begs the question if there was a real need for him to get made. He was very successful, had the respect of his fellow wiseguys, and was reaping all of the benefits of being Gatto's son-in-law even without being a full-fledged Genovese member.

I never bought the claims that Cain was a made member. I just don't see it, especially 50-60 years ago. If the most reliable claim for his rank comes from his own mouth, he had many reasons to embellish his role.

My guess is that if or when guys like Alex or Humphreys gave directives to made guys, it was one of two things. First, operational stuff related to rackets that they were in charge of (political/judicial corruption, some labor union and business racketeering stuff). Once, CC brought up a made guy (I’m assuming a Lucchese member, but I forget who ATM) who “worked for” Jimmy Burke. This was a purely operational/racket relationship, but it would be easy for someone who didn’t grasp the dynamic of mafia organizational structure to observe this sort of relationship and assume that Burke was this guy’s “boss”. Second, my interpretation is that Humphreys and Alex were essentially associates direct to the administration, or personally to Accardo (at least in Alex’s case in later years, the latter seems the most plausible to me). Thus, there may have been situations or contexts where members would’ve understood that when these guys spoke, they spoke with the authority of the admin. Something like a “spokesman” or “retainer”. Wolshonak, I’d imagine, probably combined some of both of these models. He seems to have had some operational authority in gambling. Further, it may have been understood that, rather than having a de jure, organizational authority, he spoke as a proxy for Gatto. Could be that on both counts, there were made guys who respected him and took his directives, even if he wasn’t their official “boss” in formal mafia terms.

100% agreed regarding Cain. As you’re probably aware, Aleman was Ferriola’s nephew, though this relationship wasn’t via blood (Joe Ferriola’s first wife was the sister of Harry’s mother). But still, if they were going to make an exception for a guy, I suppose he’d still be the best guess. However, when Nick C testified he was very clear that in his opinion, if a guy was even non-Ital on his mother’s side, he couldn’t be made; the only possibility would be if someone successfully lied about it. Harry’s dad Louis Alemán was from Taylor St, hung out with Italians, and I strongly suspect had his own mob ties as well (there have been rumors that he was a connection between the Herrera-family heroin operation and the outfit; he did seem to have fraternized with outfit-connected narcotics dealers like the Carioscia brothers, so there may be some substance to that). I’d have a hard time thinking that guys from Taylor St weren’t well-aware that Harry’s dad was Mexican. I’ve never seen any indication that Harry tried going by “Baratta”, his mother’s name (Cain at least apparently went around telling people that he was full Italian and that Cain was just his stepfather’a name). Besides, while Chicago seems to have a had a high degree of internal insulation and compartmentalization (where members only seem to have known for sure about each other if they were formally introduced as amici nostri on a need-to-know basis), Aleman was a pretty infamous dude and Nick C had worked with the “Wild Bunch” on some hits; I’d have to think that if Aleman were made, Calabrese probably would’ve either known or suspected it and it definitely would’ve come up during his testimony as he was questioned on the stand about the full-Italian thing.

Above someone brought up that members who were non-Ital on their patriline were extremely rare in NYC/NJ. Apart from John Friggin Veasey, I’m not sure they were any less rare anywhere else. Not for nothin’, but in the Midwest you had families like Detroit, Milwaukee, Rockford, and KC where they hardly even inducted any non-Sicilians. If anything, as a whole, I’d suspect that NYC was comparably more lax about membership criteria than many families in the rest of the country. Given that there are hardly any examples of this sort of thing happening there, and none confirmed in Chicago, I’d assume it ranged from exceedingly rare to unheard of nationwide.

[B.]

Vinny Asaro was the one who worked for Jimmy Burke's loanshark operation. Joe Watts gave a murder contract to Jackie D'Amico (captain) and Michael DiLeonardo (member) -- he was of course authorized by Gotti to carry the message, but it's technically an associate giving a high-level directive to ranking members. It's understood on the street that these associates are heavyweights who are sometimes more powerful than many members but it's circumstantial and they're authorized by the boss.

Members don't always accept it, either, or they do so begrudgingly. There's the story about Johnn Roselli feeling disrespected by the Chicago leaders sending a non-member to bring him orders even though it was Alex or Humphreys (can't remember which). Vinny Asaro made a major beef about Sal Vitale carrying a directive to him from Massino before Vitale was made. When Vitale told Asaro the directive came from Rusty Rastelli, Asaro completely relented as it came from his boss. What's interesting is Asaro was unwilling to accept an associate representing his captain, but he was willing to accept an associate representing the boss.

Different Families have their own unique qualities but I don't think Chicago or the Genovese Family are much different from other Families when it comes to how they handled these relationships. In Chicago they just utilized these relationships more.

A problem with this subject is the public believes it's just a system of guys ordering each other around. Sure that's part of it but not anywhere close to the whole. These relationships (including associates) are way more complex than just the most powerful guy barking orders to weaker guys. When we look at a powerful associate through the lens of "giving orders to subordinates" it's easy to misinterpret what was actually taking place organizationally.

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Most of the examples I'm aware of where guys were made with only maternal heritage are Families that were either dwindling or in a severely bad place (i.e. Stanfa war). In New York / New Jersey they've never had a lack of fully Italian recruits and even though they took a progressive turn by inducting half-Italians, the mafia's conservative impulse kicked back in and they banned it which is more interesting than I think people give it credit for -- after existing in NYC for at least 100 years and inducting half-Italians since at least the 1950s, the NYC mafia decided to turn the clock back in the 1990s and reinforce pure Italian blood.

^^^ Question is why? Were any of the members who flipped or caused the NYC Families grief in the 1970s-1990s only half-Italian? Most of the issues seem to have come from pure Italians from what I know. The NYC Families seem to have gone back to the "100% Italian" rule simply as a matter of principal / tradition / culture, as I don't think they had a solid practical reason to do it.

[Newyorkempire]

There is not such thing as full blooded Italian. If you talk about citizenship one can be Italian 100% based on birth. As far as actual blood, no such thing. Go back 1000 years and maybe you'll find some.

I think in this context it basically means both one's father and mother (maiden) have Italian last names.

Yes. But it's flawed reasoning in general. One can be more "Italian" technically in a variety of ways than the next person. Both last names do not prove lineage, especially in 2022.

Here's a question: which Genovese members were Italian only on their father's side?

Wasn't Albert Gallo, like his brothers, half-Irish (mother's side)?

Since you mentioned Knapik, if I remember correctly, he made up the story that he had Italian parents. The Merola name he adopted was allegedly his birth mother's maiden name, but he never found who his father was and just told everybody how he was a 100% Italian stallion. I believe Bob Buccino mentioned how he thought it was hilarious that the mob fell off so much that they started to induct non-Italians like Knapik.

There seems to be conflicting info on this. I've also read his mother's name was Merola but there's no info on his father.

[Newyorkempire]

There is not such thing as full blooded Italian. If you talk about citizenship one can be Italian 100% based on birth. As far as actual blood, no such thing. Go back 1000 years and maybe you'll find some.

I think in this context it basically means both one's father and mother (maiden) have Italian last names.

Here's a question: which Genovese members were Italian only on their father's side?

Wasn't Albert Gallo, like his brothers, half-Irish (mother's side)?

Since you mentioned Knapik, if I remember correctly, he made up the story that he had Italian parents. The Merola name he adopted was allegedly his birth mother's maiden name, but he never found who his father was and just told everybody how he was a 100% Italian stallion. I believe Bob Buccino mentioned how he thought it was hilarious that the mob fell off so much that they started to induct non-Italians like Knapik.

There seems to be conflicting info on this. I've also read his mother's name was Merola but there's no info on his father.

Yes. But it's flawed reasoning in general. One can be more "Italian" technically in a variety of ways than the next person. Both last names do not prove lineage, especially in 2022.

[Newyorkempire]

Sorry B. Somehow posted under your name.

[Antiliar]

I actually had Alderisio and Alex in mind when I mentioned Grecco's role in the 80s. Also, I vaguely remember reading somewhere that Murray Humphreys sometimes ordered rank-and-file soldiers what to do. Not as in their direct superior, but when the situation required it. I suspect it's an apocryphal tale, but I remember reading it somewhere.

I don't know much about Aleman and his relationship with Ferriola, but as far as Wolshonak goes - it begs the question if there was a real need for him to get made. He was very successful, had the respect of his fellow wiseguys, and was reaping all of the benefits of being Gatto's son-in-law even without being a full-fledged Genovese member.

I never bought the claims that Cain was a made member. I just don't see it, especially 50-60 years ago. If the most reliable claim for his rank comes from his own mouth, he had many reasons to embellish his role.

Murray Humphreys told Johnny Roselli, "You belong here." Roselli told him, "You ain't got nothing to say about it." Hump replied, "The hell I ain't." This came from a conversation between Sam Giancana and Frank Ferraro. In another recording Humphreys was telling Babe Baron that he was telling off Roselli in front of Giancana and Ferraro and he had to take it. Humphreys had the ear of Paul Ricca.

I doubt Aleman was made, but Mike Magnafichi didn't rule it out as a possibility. Same with Cain, although he was less familiar with him. I could see Giancana making Cain when he was in Mexico. Personally, I don't think he was, but I can't rule it out entirely. The FBI agents seemed to believe that his real name was Scalzitti, although that was his mother's maiden name. If they thought he had an Italian father, then so could have the Outfit guys.

[Don Mosseria]

Here's a question: which Genovese members were Italian only on their father's side?

--

Related to this...

Former undercover agent Jack Garcia believes Andy Campos is Puerto Rican on his father's side, as do some of the Bronx board members over the years, but it would mean not only did the Gambino Family induct a half-Puerto Rican but also a full one, as Campos' father is also made. I'm going to hold out until we have records that definitively prove his heritage, but I remain skeptical.

My understanding of Andy Knapik is he was adopted but his birth parents were Italian.

Hey B. Regarding Genovese members, George Barone’s father was apparently Italian, but he described himself as “a mongrel, part Italian, part Irish and part Hungarian.” He apparently was made into the Genovese Family in the early 70s (I think this is based on his own testimony, but I’m not 100% sure), which is a little odd, both because it seems pretty early for someone only part Italian to be made, and also because the books were closed until I believe 1975. Perhaps he was snuck through, rather than them knowingly making a half Italian?

Regarding Andrew Campos and his father, I have seen people saying that the George Campos who was part of the same indictment as Andrew a few years back was his father, but are we sure this is the so? If his father was made, this would indicate pretty heavily the Gambinos at least believed the father wasn’t 100% Puerto Rican. Jerry Capeci reported that the Gambino family looked into Andrew Campos’s heritage before making him, and determined his heritage was Italian. But the report I saw didn’t say any more than that. Are you aware of any other info about this?

Thanks!