Top Echelon Informant who gave up the Cirrelli Apt.

[NYNighthawk]

Just finished Gleason's book and it coincided with the 20th anniversary of John's passing.

I always wondered who gave up the apt to the FBI. And when I listened to the tapes it always amazes me when Gotti and Gravano talk about the Castellano hit in front of Frankie Locs and deny knowing who did it.

How embarrassing it must be for Locascio to be kept in the dark about that hit when they used 7-10 shooters and back up people but not tell him all the facts.

[Pmac2]

The board any closer to finding out who. The feds always could have made up the source like they did in Boston. They get a little info and make up some lies for a judge to sign off on it. I mean to bug a old lady's apartment whose not a criminal that's some shady shit. Gaspipe would have whacked her lol

[Pmac2]

Probably had every apartment bugged till they heard his voice

[outfit guy]

How difficult to get a search warrant? How difficult to get any "anonymous source" to say what you want? How difficult to pass the Bank Secrecy Act that bypasses the 4th Amendment search and seizure by having a private entity perform a warrantless search?
The source is the bartender's girlfriend. Is that really strong enough? Yes, when every federal judge is a former federal prosecutor.

[NYNighthawk]

I still believe to this day that the TEI who gave up the apt. got a big financial reward for that info, he had to - it brought down Gotti finally and caused Gravano to flip.

[Bruno187]

Just finished Gleason's book and it coincided with the 20th anniversary of John's passing.

I always wondered who gave up the apt to the FBI. And when I listened to the tapes it always amazes me when Gotti and Gravano talk about the Castellano hit in front of Frankie Locs and deny knowing who did it.

How embarrassing it must be for Locascio to be kept in the dark about that hit when they used 7-10 shooters and back up people but not tell him all the facts.

I'm pretty sure Frank Locascio knew all about it, but was just observing proper LCN protocol and not acknowledging anything about a murder. Vinny Artuso, who wasn't even made yet, but was with Frank in his Bronx crew was one of the shooters, so it stands to reason Frank knew. Just my opinion of course.

[NYNighthawk]

Just finished Gleason's book and it coincided with the 20th anniversary of John's passing.

I always wondered who gave up the apt to the FBI. And when I listened to the tapes it always amazes me when Gotti and Gravano talk about the Castellano hit in front of Frankie Locs and deny knowing who did it.

How embarrassing it must be for Locascio to be kept in the dark about that hit when they used 7-10 shooters and back up people but not tell him all the facts.

I'm pretty sure Frank Locascio knew all about it, but was just observing proper LCN protocol and not acknowledging anything about a murder. Vinny Artuso, who wasn't even made yet, but was with Frank in his Bronx crew was one of the shooters, so it stands to reason Frank knew. Just my opinion of course.

+1 Your'e right about Vinny being in Loc's crew. But how silly it must have been in hindsight - three men sitting there - they all know the truth - but they spin a tale in front of 1 of them. And that person knows the truth as well. If you don't talk about murders or hits - how do you get made then. Someone proposing you has to tell others in charge that you did a hit.

[Tonyd621]

Can it be possible Decicco? I know he got hit before but he was always rumored to be an informant and maybe they were using the apartment building long before it came to the attention of everyone

[johnny_scootch]

Can it be possible Decicco? I know he got hit before but he was always rumored to be an informant and maybe they were using the apartment building long before it came to the attention of everyone

That apartment was being used for private conversations going back to when it was Neil’s club.

[JohnnyS]

Does anyone think Patsy Conte was a possible CI?

[TSNYC]

Gleeson book mentions conte. I think said something like he expressed interest in cooperating and May have met with agents but in the end wouldn’t discuss anything criminal.

Clearly somebody (CI) gave up the apt. They wouldn’t have known about it otherwise. It wasn’t an imaginary CI, as there was no other way they’d be able to figure it out. What, plant bugs in all the buildings units on the off chance an apt May be used by the crew.

[dave]

Clearly somebody (CI) gave up the apt. They wouldn’t have known about it otherwise. It wasn’t an imaginary CI, as there was no other way they’d be able to figure it out. What, plant bugs in all the buildings units on the off chance an apt May be used by the crew.

From all the Gotti documentaries, the agents made it seem like they figured out where Gotti was meeting over a period of time after hearing his voice disappear at certain moments, surveillance capturing Mrs Cirella leave during those moments, background checks on her and the other tenants, etc.

38:00 - 39:40

https://youtu.be/c9XOAWZEgY4

[Hired_Goonz]

Clearly somebody (CI) gave up the apt. They wouldn’t have known about it otherwise. It wasn’t an imaginary CI, as there was no other way they’d be able to figure it out. What, plant bugs in all the buildings units on the off chance an apt May be used by the crew.

From all the Gotti documentaries, the agents made it seem like they figured out where Gotti was meeting over a period of time after hearing his voice disappear at certain moments, surveillance capturing Mrs Cirella leave during those moments, background checks on her and the other tenants, etc.

38:00 - 39:40

https://youtu.be/c9XOAWZEgY4

Can you get a warrant based on that though? I would think that would be a tough sell considering you're asking to wire up this old lady's home. Would probably have to point to some info coming from a CI but I'm not a lawyer so who knows. In theory they could have just figured out and then made up a fake CI they probably did stuff like that all the time.

[Pmac2]

I'm leaning process of elimination. They new gotti was up there. Anyone know how many apartments were above 2 4 6???

[TSNYC]

A nyc property listing says building has 18 units. Assuming that means apartments, in any event, building has 1 commercial unit, so maybe means 17 apartments. Gleeson book made it seem very clear there was a CI that gave the intel on the apartment. And fact you no longer hears Gotti in an incredibly loud, old, poor acoustic social club, wouldn’t necessarily mean he left the club and went elsewhere inside the building.

It’s such an intrusion to install a bug in this old woman’s apt, I can’t imagine a judge would sign it based on some process of eliminating which arguably couldn’t actually deduce to a single apt vs 10+ other apartments or so.