Los Angeles odds & ends

[Pogo The Clown]

Does the L.A crime family still exist?

No. There only like 6 members left. Most don't live in California anymore and or are inactive.


Pogo

[Antiliar]

Does the L.A crime family still exist?

It depends. From the perspective of the Cosa Nostra, a borgata continues to exist until there's no more members. From a law enforcement point of view, no. It has between 1 and 0 active members and is not a threat.

[JoePuzzles234]

Came across a document with some death dates - have seen Aquilante listed as dying in 1996 and Gelfuso in 2001, so just minor updates:

John Louis Aquilante
d.10/1/1992

Luigi Gelfuso Jr
b.8/7/1925
d.10/2000

Apologies if these have been posted before, cannot recall if they are in this thread/other LA thread
Link: https://ia903107.us.archive.org/6/items ... t-2019.pdf

[sisterray]

Another odd and end concerning the origin of the "Mickey Mouse Mafia" nickname for the LA Mob. Found it on a blog dedicated to the wonderland murders, but this article also touches upon the killing of Jimmy Casino, partner of William Carroll who Mike Rizzi attempted to kill around the same time.

https://wonderland1981.wordpress.com/20 ... ee-casino/

Here's an excerpt

" As reporter Nick Schou observes in his well researched article, the attempted murder of Carroll and murders of Avila and Mustang owner Jimmy Casino (real name James Lee Stockwell) were part of a string of assassinations, professional and otherwise, that occurred over a short period in the ’80s, “spotlighting the city’s status as a playground (and killing field) for shady businessmen, drug kingpins and organized crime figures affiliated with what cops dubbed the ‘Mickey Mouse Mafia,’ who reveled in Newport Beach’s glamorous lifestyle and coke-fueled nightlife scene.” "

Now, Casino and Avila were killed by 1987 and Daryl Gates used the Mickey Mouse nickname in 1984. I couldn't find the date of Mustang's establishment, but curiously it used to be located on the same avenue in Anaheim as Disney World. Gates could've lifted the term from the LA county cops, or the cops investigating the activity in the club picked it up from him. It's a chicken or egg kind of question.

[Antiliar]

The Mustang Club opened in 1983 and was located at Harbor and McFadden in Santa Ana.

[davidf1989]

Another odd and end concerning the origin of the "Mickey Mouse Mafia" nickname for the LA Mob. Found it on a blog dedicated to the wonderland murders, but this article also touches upon the killing of Jimmy Casino, partner of William Carroll who Mike Rizzi attempted to kill around the same time.

https://wonderland1981.wordpress.com/20 ... ee-casino/

Here's an excerpt

" As reporter Nick Schou observes in his well researched article, the attempted murder of Carroll and murders of Avila and Mustang owner Jimmy Casino (real name James Lee Stockwell) were part of a string of assassinations, professional and otherwise, that occurred over a short period in the ’80s, “spotlighting the city’s status as a playground (and killing field) for shady businessmen, drug kingpins and organized crime figures affiliated with what cops dubbed the ‘Mickey Mouse Mafia,’ who reveled in Newport Beach’s glamorous lifestyle and coke-fueled nightlife scene.” "

Now, Casino and Avila were killed by 1987 and Daryl Gates used the Mickey Mouse nickname in 1984. I couldn't find the date of Mustang's establishment, but curiously it used to be located on the same avenue in Anaheim as Disney World. Gates could've lifted the term from the LA county cops, or the cops investigating the activity in the club picked it up from him. It's a chicken or egg kind of question.

The East coast mobsters dismissed the west coast crime family as the Mickey Mouse Mafia according to these articles below.

https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/gett ... -1.1059150

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm ... story.html

[sisterray]

Another odd and end concerning the origin of the "Mickey Mouse Mafia" nickname for the LA Mob. Found it on a blog dedicated to the wonderland murders, but this article also touches upon the killing of Jimmy Casino, partner of William Carroll who Mike Rizzi attempted to kill around the same time.

https://wonderland1981.wordpress.com/20 ... ee-casino/

Here's an excerpt

" As reporter Nick Schou observes in his well researched article, the attempted murder of Carroll and murders of Avila and Mustang owner Jimmy Casino (real name James Lee Stockwell) were part of a string of assassinations, professional and otherwise, that occurred over a short period in the ’80s, “spotlighting the city’s status as a playground (and killing field) for shady businessmen, drug kingpins and organized crime figures affiliated with what cops dubbed the ‘Mickey Mouse Mafia,’ who reveled in Newport Beach’s glamorous lifestyle and coke-fueled nightlife scene.” "

Now, Casino and Avila were killed by 1987 and Daryl Gates used the Mickey Mouse nickname in 1984. I couldn't find the date of Mustang's establishment, but curiously it used to be located on the same avenue in Anaheim as Disney World. Gates could've lifted the term from the LA county cops, or the cops investigating the activity in the club picked it up from him. It's a chicken or egg kind of question.

The East coast mobsters dismissed the west coast crime family as the Mickey Mouse Mafia according to these articles below.

https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/gett ... -1.1059150

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm ... story.html

What I was getting at, is that there's no actual record of any NY/Chicago mobsters referring to the LA mob as the Mickey Mouse Mafia, LA police chief Daryl Gates apparently coined that nickname during the 1984 bust; I came across a blog article refering to criminals hanging around the Mustang as such and wondered if the term actually originated earlier among local cops, since the club appeared to be located in close proximity to Disneyland. Just to clear that up.

There's a lot of misconceptions about LA, mainly because there was just one made informant and the family was pretty much a non-factor as much as criminal activity goes since the 90s. They're still interesting though - mainly because they were made up from guys from all over the country. Imagine all the accents going on during sitdowns. And all the driving, since the crews were spread out from San Fernando to Orange County and Riverside and for a time to San Diego. That's a hour and a half's drive from one suburb to another. How exactly did they operate and how did they factor in the greater Cosa Nostra politics? Since Dragna's death, they seemed to be heavily involved in crime only during the late 70s and 80s, and then that was just picking up whatever was left of the porno in the 70s or extorting bookies in the 80s (who, in my opinion, were just old Cohen associates who just stopped paying tribute over time). Just rambling here. If you check out the Mary Ferrell files concerning LA during Licata's reign, most of the intel supplied by informants concerns legal, or semi legal business (LIcata demanding more tribute from vending machines operated by Leo Dia in SD) or acting as "fixers" (trying to find out who committed the home invasion of casino owner Nick Simponis). They weren't a feared OC organization by any chance, but I'm sceptical as far as the Mickey Mouse Mafia moniker goes.

Don't forget, we don't even know the nicknames that the guys used - Fiato was never called "The Animal", his actual nickname was Tony Rome (probably because he was buddies with "Ronnie Rome" Romanowski as they were both Boston transplants - hardly threatening by any measure), Milano was never called Shakes (that was Kenji's invention), Gelfuso was never "The Couch" etc.

Now, another odd and end, it seems that Mike Esposito was being shaken down by the Jersey Lucchese crew before he was made by Milano. Here's a link to an article.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm ... story.html

[Costigan]

That's an interesting post sisterray, and I would agree with everything you said about these supposed nicknames. You mentioned accents and LA guys being from all over the country. That reminds me of something I'd read (can't remember where) that John Vaccaro had such a Louisiana southern accent that people found him hard to understand.

[Nick Prango]

Another odd and end concerning the origin of the "Mickey Mouse Mafia" nickname for the LA Mob. Found it on a blog dedicated to the wonderland murders, but this article also touches upon the killing of Jimmy Casino, partner of William Carroll who Mike Rizzi attempted to kill around the same time.

https://wonderland1981.wordpress.com/20 ... ee-casino/

Here's an excerpt

" As reporter Nick Schou observes in his well researched article, the attempted murder of Carroll and murders of Avila and Mustang owner Jimmy Casino (real name James Lee Stockwell) were part of a string of assassinations, professional and otherwise, that occurred over a short period in the ’80s, “spotlighting the city’s status as a playground (and killing field) for shady businessmen, drug kingpins and organized crime figures affiliated with what cops dubbed the ‘Mickey Mouse Mafia,’ who reveled in Newport Beach’s glamorous lifestyle and coke-fueled nightlife scene.” "

Now, Casino and Avila were killed by 1987 and Daryl Gates used the Mickey Mouse nickname in 1984. I couldn't find the date of Mustang's establishment, but curiously it used to be located on the same avenue in Anaheim as Disney World. Gates could've lifted the term from the LA county cops, or the cops investigating the activity in the club picked it up from him. It's a chicken or egg kind of question.

The East coast mobsters dismissed the west coast crime family as the Mickey Mouse Mafia according to these articles below.

https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/gett ... -1.1059150

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm ... story.html

What I was getting at, is that there's no actual record of any NY/Chicago mobsters referring to the LA mob as the Mickey Mouse Mafia, LA police chief Daryl Gates apparently coined that nickname during the 1984 bust; I came across a blog article refering to criminals hanging around the Mustang as such and wondered if the term actually originated earlier among local cops, since the club appeared to be located in close proximity to Disneyland. Just to clear that up.

There's a lot of misconceptions about LA, mainly because there was just one made informant and the family was pretty much a non-factor as much as criminal activity goes since the 90s. They're still interesting though - mainly because they were made up from guys from all over the country. Imagine all the accents going on during sitdowns. And all the driving, since the crews were spread out from San Fernando to Orange County and Riverside and for a time to San Diego. That's a hour and a half's drive from one suburb to another. How exactly did they operate and how did they factor in the greater Cosa Nostra politics? Since Dragna's death, they seemed to be heavily involved in crime only during the late 70s and 80s, and then that was just picking up whatever was left of the porno in the 70s or extorting bookies in the 80s (who, in my opinion, were just old Cohen associates who just stopped paying tribute over time). Just rambling here. If you check out the Mary Ferrell files concerning LA during Licata's reign, most of the intel supplied by informants concerns legal, or semi legal business (LIcata demanding more tribute from vending machines operated by Leo Dia in SD) or acting as "fixers" (trying to find out who committed the home invasion of casino owner Nick Simponis). They weren't a feared OC organization by any chance, but I'm sceptical as far as the Mickey Mouse Mafia moniker goes.

Don't forget, we don't even know the nicknames that the guys used - Fiato was never called "The Animal", his actual nickname was Tony Rome (probably because he was buddies with "Ronnie Rome" Romanowski as they were both Boston transplants - hardly threatening by any measure), Milano was never called Shakes (that was Kenji's invention), Gelfuso was never "The Couch" etc.

Now, another odd and end, it seems that Mike Esposito was being shaken down by the Jersey Lucchese crew before he was made by Milano. Here's a link to an article.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm ... story.html

Same as you I was always interested in Los Angeles crime family because they are so different than other American LCN families. Michael Rizzitello is the most fascinating guy to me. He was a straight up gangster.

[aleksandrored]

I'm reading Fratianno's book and I found the Los Angeles mafia very interesting, so I researched and had some doubts:

-As I understand it, Chief of Police Daryl Gates was the one who named them "Mickey Mouse Mafia", but what did he mean by that? that they were weak? the exact word he said doesn't make much sense in my language.

-I know that today the family no longer exists, but what was the last case related to the Los Angeles mafia?

[sisterray]

I'm reading Fratianno's book and I found the Los Angeles mafia very interesting, so I researched and had some doubts:

-As I understand it, Chief of Police Daryl Gates was the one who named them "Mickey Mouse Mafia", but what did he mean by that? that they were weak? the exact word he said doesn't make much sense in my language.

-I know that today the family no longer exists, but what was the last case related to the Los Angeles mafia?

Apparently Gates wanted to shift the media's focus towards the black and hispanic gangs that were on the rise at the time, hence the term he used.

In American English, Mickey Mouse means that something's not put well-together enough to be considered a serious entity. Recently, I've heard that monicker used by a corporate lawyer in my country who used to work in the US when he was describing a company that tried to get in business with him, so I guess it's used rather frequently overseas.

In these threads, people will frequently refer to the Mexican Mafia and the African-American gangs as the real force in LA. Now, from what I know, there's two LA's - the whitebread part and the ethnic part. All the vice that was going on in Hollywood, OC and the Valley - the escort services, the celebrity coke dealing and the bookmaking that serviced the privileged classes was riddled with informants who were telling on each other to the LAPD in exchange for immunity. You couldn't really move in on anyone without the cops getting a tip and from what I know, that's what transpired when the Milanos tried to shake down independent bookies in the 80s. I doubt the LAPD had any problem with putting the squeeze on LCN once they got wind of what was going on and putting a mob case together was an easy headline. Any caucasian crime ring in LA would be a Mickey Mouse operation - even Heidi Fleiss got ratted out by her own girls.

The last major LA mob case was the fallout from the Blitzstein murder and it got the Caci crew locked up for extortion.

[aleksandrored]

I'm reading Fratianno's book and I found the Los Angeles mafia very interesting, so I researched and had some doubts:

-As I understand it, Chief of Police Daryl Gates was the one who named them "Mickey Mouse Mafia", but what did he mean by that? that they were weak? the exact word he said doesn't make much sense in my language.

-I know that today the family no longer exists, but what was the last case related to the Los Angeles mafia?

Apparently Gates wanted to shift the media's focus towards the black and hispanic gangs that were on the rise at the time, hence the term he used.

In American English, Mickey Mouse means that something's not put well-together enough to be considered a serious entity. Recently, I've heard that monicker used by a corporate lawyer in my country who used to work in the US when he was describing a company that tried to get in business with him, so I guess it's used rather frequently overseas.

In these threads, people will frequently refer to the Mexican Mafia and the African-American gangs as the real force in LA. Now, from what I know, there's two LA's - the whitebread part and the ethnic part. All the vice that was going on in Hollywood, OC and the Valley - the escort services, the celebrity coke dealing and the bookmaking that serviced the privileged classes was riddled with informants who were telling on each other to the LAPD in exchange for immunity. You couldn't really move in on anyone without the cops getting a tip and from what I know, that's what transpired when the Milanos tried to shake down independent bookies in the 80s. I doubt the LAPD had any problem with putting the squeeze on LCN once they got wind of what was going on and putting a mob case together was an easy headline. Any caucasian crime ring in LA would be a Mickey Mouse operation - even Heidi Fleiss got ratted out by her own girls.

The last major LA mob case was the fallout from the Blitzstein murder and it got the Caci crew locked up for extortion.

Thanks man!!

[dave]

Thanks man!!

Ironically, both the Los Angeles Lakers and the Los Angeles Dodgers won a "Mickey Mouse championship" during the Covid shortened NBA and MLB seasons. In other words, those championships aren't respected because teams didn't play a full season:

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Mickey_Mouse_ring

[aleksandrored]

Thanks man!!

Ironically, both the Los Angeles Lakers and the Los Angeles Dodgers won a "Mickey Mouse championship" during the Covid shortened NBA and MLB seasons. In other words, those championships aren't respected because teams didn't play a full season:

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Mickey_Mouse_ring

Thanks for the info

[JerryB]

Mickey Mouse = amateur, unprofessional, limited impact.

The following analogy may help: a city alderman/councilman's political position is "Mickey Mouse" compared to a State Senator.

I don't want to start an argument nor do I want to antagonize or call into question all the "researchers" here, but my opinion is that the phrase "Mickey Mouse" to describe the LA Family was widely used by many others and coined long before Gates was the COP. In fact, I believe that COP Wm. Parker first used the expression (not necessarily to describe the LA Family), as did COP Ed Davis. Inre Parker, it should be mentioned that COP Gates was Parker's driver, in the day.