1985 lists of made members for all families, unredacted

[Snakes]

This wasn't Roemer, this was Hegarty, the Special Agent-in-Charge of the Chicago FBI Office:

Ah, okay. I stand corrected. Was this from the same hearing?

[B.]

Might be, as it was from 1983. Thought it was interesting he didn't just use the terms boss, underboss, consigliere, but even used the Sicilian dialect version of each. Here is the direct link:
https://books.google.com/books?id=KShPs ... 22&f=false

What's interesting about the FBI 1960 and 1969 hierarchy chart is the other Families who have multiple consiglieri listed were Families with confirmed councils, like Detroit and San Jose. No idea what the FBI's info was for including Ricca and Accardo as consiglieri but that's something they did do for the Families with formal councils.

[Snakes]

Might be, as it was from 1983. Thought it was interesting he didn't just use the terms boss, underboss, consigliere, but even used the Sicilian dialect version of each. Here is the direct link:
https://books.google.com/books?id=KShPs ... 22&f=false

What's interesting about the FBI 1960 and 1969 hierarchy chart is the other Families who have multiple consiglieri listed were Families with confirmed councils, like Detroit and San Jose. No idea what the FBI's info was for including Ricca and Accardo as consiglieri but that's something they did do for the Families with formal councils.

I don't want to distract too much from the thread, but here are is an excerpt from 1984. Note that the 47 identified members matches very closely with those listed in the 1985 list in this thread (45):



And a couple more from 1985 describing Accardo's position:

[B.]

~50 members was Genovese captain Ray DeCarlo's estimate for Chicago circa early 1960s. Said they were very selective about inducting people. Wonder if they strived to maintain a number around there -- we know they opened their books in the early 1980s and with these 45-47 members being ID'd you have to wonder if they generally tried to maintain a number around 50.

This was LA member Sal Piscopo's understanding of the consigliere rank. His knowledge would come from LA but he was also close to Roselli so not sure what he may have heard about Chicago:

"... in each 'family' there is the position of 'consulieri', or advisor, which position is not in the direct line of command, but is set more or less apart from it. The source advised that the position of 'consulieri' depends on the personalities involved, and the position itself, in different 'families,' would vary from a minor position to a very important one. The source advised that in some 'families,' the 'consulieri' would enjoy such an important position that he may even be on the 'Commissione.' The source advised further that in connection with the meeting at Apalachin, New York, on November 14, 1957, among those attending were important 'consulieri.'"

Should be noted too that many member sources (including Bill Bonanno and Stefano Magaddino) say the consigliere operates at the discretion of the membership, not the boss, and has autonomous power.

[Antiliar]

I doubt Ricca or Accardo were voted in to their positions. Nothing in their job descriptions matches that of a traditional consigliere except for controlling the capital, at least based on the evidence we have. They were square pegs forced to fit in round holes.

[PolackTony]

Maybe the mods should move this conversation to a Chicago thread so as not to distract from other discussions of the phenomenal info that Scott has posted.

Having said that, it’s an important conversation. Even if the ground has been covered before, re-evaluating these questions periodically can be valuable. Rather than Ricca/Accardo being either voted into or appointed to (as in the case of archetypical consuleri) their role (whatever we want to label it for either descriptive or analytic purposes), my presumption is that they exercised ultimate executive authority, as they essentially embodied the will of the family as a collective. Without making too much of one statement, this is my interpretation of the statement from the 1970s CI who stated that Aiuppa, as boss, served “under” the council. Ricca and Accardo were the heads of this body, which I believe selected the boss (or at least formally ratified the decision of Ricca and Accardo). This body also seems to have been responsible for mediating disputes between members of different crews and issuing edicts against members, roles that B identified in the Consiglio thread as characteristic of Consigli in other families. So in the sense that Ricca/Accardo were “chairmen” of the body apparently responsible for setting and/or deliberating policy and dealing with internal issues pertaining to the membership, I see them as akin to “capi consiglieri” or chief councilors. I see them as not directly in the chain of command, in the sense that that role was actively administered by the boss, who they selected to occupy that office and exercise its authority, but under their ultimate authority as representatives of the family as a collective.

Whether or not we agree that consuleri is the appropriate term for them, the MF document having them as “consig” for 1960 and not in 1969 of course reflects the way that Ricca and Accardo were forced to step into (at least on a temporary/provisional basis) active command of the organization with the crisis of leadership at the end of 60s/early 70s. By all accounts, after Ricca was dead and Aiuppa solidified in his office as boss, Accardo then resumed the role he had previously occupied, as “chairman”.

I agree also that the use of Sicilian dialect terms is extremely interesting there. One wonders to what degree these were imposed by federal investigators with a knowledge of Sicilian CN, or if they reflected usages within the actual membership at some point. We wouldn’t have thought that Chicago members used terms like capodecina and avvocato in their discourse, but then we see with the Giancana/Castelli wiretap that they indeed did. Or as the excerpt quoted above states, capos were known in Chicagoland as “street bosses” but their actual title was capodecina. We might’ve simply dismissed this as an etic( “outsider”) term imposed by the Feds to make Chicago fit their CN model, but then Nick Breeze testified under oath that this role was indeed referred to as capo. Or non-members may have thought of members as “outfit guys” or “made guys”, but Nick confirmed that internally, within the family, they were called amico nostro. Also, IIRC correctly Jimmy LaPietra was recorded using the term “sottocapo” in the 80s.

One thing that comes to mind to me, which may or not be a relevant part of the context here, is that the Feds had detailed knowledge that Chicago was collaborating with Sicilian CN members in the 80s. Presumably if they had to discuss ranks with these guys, they weren’t going to say “Angelo’s a ‘street boss’”.

[B.]

Good to be critical of the FBI's interpretations even though they're usually good, like I was saying about Buffalo/Rochester. Do you think the FBI editorialized about Accardo's position so they could present him as part of the formal mafia hierarchy? Or they just interpreted it that way and went with it? Wonder if other examples can be found in other cities, as you don't typically see them label a guy a "capodecina" based on him seeming important, etc.

We know most of their chart designations came from member sources / wiretaps (similar FBI protocol was used to identify leadership ranks as was used to identify members), but it's an imperfect system and both sources and the FBI can be mistaken. I have no hard opinion, but it's interesting they insisted on him being a consigliere for decades and Fratianno said something similar in the middle period between the FBI's 1960s and 1980s info.

One of the early 1970s informants (Gianola?) described Ricca/Accardo this way:



His impression was they did serve as high-level mediators who insisted on non-violence. Doesn't put a label on it, though.

[Antiliar]

I think within the Outfit most of the time it was "Paul" or "Joe Batters" and that was enough. If you were in the Outfit you understood who they were and where they stood in the hierarchy. Fred Pascente describes an experience where as a cop he entered a restaurant and greeted Accardo. "Hi, sir, how you doing?" Accardo says, "Go say hello to the boss before you talk to me... And that's when I knew the boss was Paul the Waiter." (Mob Cop, p. 52). Nick Calabrese in his testimony identifies Accardo as "a boss at one time," but not consigliere. He doesn't even mention a consigliere.

[PolackTony]

I think within the Outfit most of the time it was "Paul" or "Joe Batters" and that was enough. If you were in the Outfit you understood who they were and where they stood in the hierarchy. Fred Pascente describes an experience where as a cop he entered a restaurant and greeted Accardo. "Hi, sir, how you doing?" Accardo says, "Go say hello to the boss before you talk to me... And that's when I knew the boss was Paul the Waiter." (Mob Cop, p. 52). Nick Calabrese in his testimony identifies Accardo as "a boss at one time," but not consigliere. He doesn't even mention a consigliere.

Nick never mentioning a consuleri is a big deal, I think.

Regarding the Piscopo quote, which consuleri do we know for sure sat on the Commission?

[Antiliar]

From the Bonannos and FBI files we know that after Capone it was Ricca who sat on the Commission, followed by Accardo and Giancana. However the time that Ricca came to New York with Giancana for a Commission meeting it was understood that he was the real boss. At that time, in the early to mid-1960s, Ricca and Magaddino were the only two bosses left who were founding members of the Commission.

[PolackTony]

From the Bonannos and FBI files we know that after Capone it was Ricca who sat on the Commission, followed by Accardo and Giancana. However the time that Ricca came to New York with Giancana for a Commission meeting it was understood that he was the real boss. At that time, in the early to mid-1960s, Ricca and Magaddino were the only two bosses left who were founding members of the Commission.

In spite of Giancana being the official rappresentante, I'm sure the other Commission members recognized 'o Gumbadell' as the real power in Chicago.

[Adam]

[/quote]
Tony LaPiana was a surprise in 1985 for me as well. I’m assuming they had info that he was already made, but I wonder what the source was for that.
[/quote]

Well I think it was in 1993 that the feds referenced having six informants providing information on the Detroit mob. But in 1985 a good candidate to let them know about Lapiana would be someone like Lenny Schultz who was an FBI informant at the time. He could have been someone who said that Lapiana got made for taking part in the Ralph Proctor murder in 1984.

[Cheech]

this is awesome Scott, thanks

[PolackTony]

Well I think it was in 1993 that the feds referenced having six informants providing information on the Detroit mob. But in 1985 a good candidate to let them know about Lapiana would be someone like Lenny Schultz who was an FBI informant at the time. He could have been someone who said that Lapiana got made for taking part in the Ralph Proctor murder in 1984.

None of these were member informants though, correct?

[Frank]

The first Portillos in St Pete is opening by us in a few weeks.

Shit in around 1978 I used to go to the original Portillos. It was a small place then lol. It was in Addison IL on North Ave