Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

[Wiseguy]

"Surface level hype"....lol. Wtf. This guy is bonkers. Continually grasping at straws. Everything that has come out is far beneath the surface.

"Wise"guy were you last picked for dodge ball each time in grade school?

"Dead in the water"..."grasping at straws..."

If you're going to use idioms like this, at least make sure they actually apply. You just sound like a damn fool otherwise.

See what? Its already been seen through FBI reports, RCMP reports and countless articles by accredited journalists. You mean that in 10 years if not RICO is filed you win? Sure, its your victory to have.

Seriously, you got deep issues man. Delusions of your position on the internet and in real life to start. And then deep flaws in logic and reason. You'll figure it out some day

First, as more time goes by, it will become increasingly clear to those currently enamored with the cases related to Bongiovanni, that they actually have relatively little to do with what's left of the Buffalo LCN.

Second, as more time goes by, it will become increasingly clear of just how much of an anomaly Violi is. That him being made is a unique case and not indicative of what's left of the Buffalo LCN making others, at least in anything approaching significant numbers.

Third, Violi is an anomaly in another way, i.e. he's the only known member not in his 70s or older. Of the other 11 identified members, 4 are in their 70's, 5 are in their 80's, and 2 are in their 90's. As more time goes by, and these guys die off one after the other, current talk of an active LCN family in Buffalo will fade away and eventually become moot once there's literally nobody left. And when nobody else but the current 12 known names, including all those he claimed to have beaten out for the underboss position, is positively identified.

Lastly, while I've drawn comparisons to what happened with the Detroit debates of the past, another good example can been seen in what happened with the 2010 bookmaking bust in Kansas City. This seemed to come out of nowhere, included some familiar names, and had the same speculations about what it meant for the state of the LCN there. Granted, the claims about Buffalo have gotten a lot more traction; not only on this forum, but in the local media, and by the prosecutor. But as more time goes by, it will become increasingly clear that what has happened in regards to Buffalo in recent years was really no different than what happened in Kanas City in 2010. Or in Detroit in 2006, for that matter.

As more time goes by, the context that seems to elude so many here will make more sense. It already should, to be honest, but some seem to get caught up in the hype for whatever reason. Enjoy it while it lasts.

[Newyorkempire]

"Surface level hype"....lol. Wtf. This guy is bonkers. Continually grasping at straws. Everything that has come out is far beneath the surface.

"Wise"guy were you last picked for dodge ball each time in grade school?

"Dead in the water"..."grasping at straws..."

If you're going to use idioms like this, at least make sure they actually apply. You just sound like a damn fool otherwise.

See what? Its already been seen through FBI reports, RCMP reports and countless articles by accredited journalists. You mean that in 10 years if not RICO is filed you win? Sure, its your victory to have.

Seriously, you got deep issues man. Delusions of your position on the internet and in real life to start. And then deep flaws in logic and reason. You'll figure it out some day

First, as more time goes by, it will become increasingly clear to those currently enamored with the cases related to Bongiovanni, that they actually have relatively little to do with what's left of the Buffalo LCN.

Second, as more time goes by, it will become increasingly clear of just how much of an anomaly Violi is. That him being made is a unique case and not indicative of what's left of the Buffalo LCN making others, at least in anything approaching significant numbers.

Third, Violi is an anomaly in another way, i.e. he's the only known member not in his 70s or older. Of the other 11 identified members, 4 are in their 70's, 5 are in their 80's, and 2 are in their 90's. As more time goes by, and these guys die off one after the other, current talk of an active LCN family in Buffalo will fade away and eventually become moot once there's literally nobody left. And when nobody else but the current 12 known names, including all those he claimed to have beaten out for the underboss position, is positively identified.

Lastly, while I've drawn comparisons to what happened with the Detroit debates of the past, another good example can been seen in what happened with the 2010 bookmaking bust in Kansas City. This seemed to come out of nowhere, included some familiar names, and had the same speculations about what it meant for the state of the LCN there. Granted, the claims about Buffalo have gotten a lot more traction; not only on this forum, but in the local media, and by the prosecutor. But as more time goes by, it will become increasingly clear that what has happened in regards to Buffalo in recent years was really no different than what happened in Kanas City in 2010. Or in Detroit in 2006, for that matter.

As more time goes by, the context that seems to elude so many here will make more sense. It already should, to be honest, but some seem to get caught up in the hype for whatever reason. Enjoy it while it lasts.

Lol. Priceless. Its lasted for 7 years and youre still confused.

[Newyorkempire]

"Granted, the claims about Buffalo have gotten a lot more traction"....lol. No shit. Your insight is breathtaking.

[Newyorkempire]

Further, after looking at Scotts Ds release of the FBI charts from 1985 it is clear that they did not account for all members of Buffalo, were in the dark on members, did not have the correct intel on members or underreported members. Which concludes the same misreporting could have existed in 1997, 2006, 2012, and current. As goes the same for all other families in the history of Mafia record keeping by the FBI.

[OcSleeper]

Further, after looking at Scotts Ds release of the FBI charts from 1985 it is clear that they did not account for all members of Buffalo, were in the dark on members, did not have the correct intel on members or underreported members. Which concludes the same misreporting could have existed in 1997, 2006, 2012, and current. As goes the same for all other families in the history of Mafia record keeping by the FBI.

lol. No shit. Your insight is breathtaking.

[Newyorkempire]

Further, after looking at Scotts Ds release of the FBI charts from 1985 it is clear that they did not account for all members of Buffalo, were in the dark on members, did not have the correct intel on members or underreported members. Which concludes the same misreporting could have existed in 1997, 2006, 2012, and current. As goes the same for all other families in the history of Mafia record keeping by the FBI.

lol. No shit. Your insight is breathtaking.

+2

[Wiseguy]

Further, after looking at Scotts Ds release of the FBI charts from 1985 it is clear that they did not account for all members of Buffalo, were in the dark on members, did not have the correct intel on members or underreported members. Which concludes the same misreporting could have existed in 1997, 2006, 2012, and current. As goes the same for all other families in the history of Mafia record keeping by the FBI.

I explained this in the other thread. It's you who's just grasping for straws now, trying to use an incomplete chart from 37 years ago as a way to artificially inflate Buffalo's numbers today. This just shows what a bullshit artist you are. Also shows how little you actually have to go on. Pure desperation.

[Newyorkempire]

Further, after looking at Scotts Ds release of the FBI charts from 1985 it is clear that they did not account for all members of Buffalo, were in the dark on members, did not have the correct intel on members or underreported members. Which concludes the same misreporting could have existed in 1997, 2006, 2012, and current. As goes the same for all other families in the history of Mafia record keeping by the FBI.

I explained this in the other thread. It's you who's just grasping for straws now, trying to use an incomplete chart from 37 years ago as a way to artificially inflate Buffalo's numbers today. This just shows what a bullshit artist you are. Also shows how little you actually have to go on. Pure desperation.

Wah wah wah. Going on 7 years and your still hoping someone believes you outright. Don't worry in 10 years when no RICO was filed against anyone I will say well looks like that dude from Utah really knew what he was talking about when he pretended to know what he was talking about.

[Wiseguy]

Wah wah wah. Going on 7 years and your still hoping someone believes you outright. Don't worry in 10 years when no RICO was filed against anyone I will say well looks like that dude from Utah really knew what he was talking about when he pretended to know what he was talking about.

You keep saying "7 years." That goes to my point. Each year that goes by only confirms what I'm saying. I was in the minority 10, 12 years ago in the Detroit debates. Lots of people as convinced then about Detroit as you and some others are convinced now about Buffalo. What it comes down to is people like yourself are just out of your depth.

[Angelo Santino]

Putting my Moderator Cap on- Let's keep the name calling and insults to a minimal. We can disagree respectfully but we don't need to make snipes at each other. All of us here are coming from a good place with honest intentions and we can at least share a mutual respect in that despite viewing the "other side" as being shortsighted.

(This isn't to any one individual while at the same time being said to all individuals involved.)

(I tried to post this and WG just responded and gave me the notification- this isn't calling him out, it's to everyone.)

[B.]

Wiseguy -- I appreciated reading your rationale about the early stuff. Not going to play third wheel to it, but I agree with a couple of your general points, especially regarding the limits of evidence back then.

I do believe AL/CC/Lennert found substantial evidence Lupo was the rappresentante of what's now the Gambino Family and other info has surfaced since then that reinforces it. I have my own reservations about who the boss (or bosses) were pre-1900, but I do believe they found evidence/indications of organized mafia groups in NYC pre-1900s and indications of continuity (i.e. these weren't random blips that died out). Interestingly they didn't find evidence of a Corleonesi NYC mafia group pre-1900s but if nothing else, I believe their work has created a new concensus among many critical people that there were at least three Families active simultaneous to Morello's time as boss.

I enjoyed reading what you had to say though.

... and besides, we all know the first Family was in Buffalo and it will also be the last under King Todaro VIII.

[Newyorkempire]

Wah wah wah. Going on 7 years and your still hoping someone believes you outright. Don't worry in 10 years when no RICO was filed against anyone I will say well looks like that dude from Utah really knew what he was talking about when he pretended to know what he was talking about.

You keep saying "7 years." That goes to my point. Each year that goes by only confirms what I'm saying. I was in the minority 10, 12 years ago in the Detroit debates. Lots of people as convinced then about Detroit as you and some others are convinced now about Buffalo. What it comes down to is people like yourself are just out of your depth.

My point is youve already lost the Buffalo debate. Proof has already come out that it is still operating whether you play semantics with the evidence or not whether it reaches your metrics threshold or not. Youre just mad everyone on here doesnt agree with your belief the latest developments are simply superficial. If nothing else ever comes out in the way of busts or evidence it doesnt matter, we are in the present, talking about the present. Attrition, that you so vehemently use as the decline of the Mafia will indeed get the best of Buffalo as it has helped reduce size and power of all in the last 30 years. But Buffalo is still throwing punches, and in the fight. Sorry man, it just is what it is.

[Wiseguy]

Wiseguy -- I appreciated reading your rationale about the early stuff. Not going to play third wheel to it, but I agree with a couple of your general points, especially regarding the limits of evidence back then.

I do believe AL/CC/Lennert found substantial evidence Lupo was the rappresentante of what's now the Gambino Family and other info has surfaced since then that reinforces it. I have my own reservations about who the boss (or bosses) were pre-1900, but I do believe they found evidence/indications of organized mafia groups in NYC pre-1900s and indications of continuity (i.e. these weren't random blips that died out). Interestingly they didn't find evidence of a Corleonesi NYC mafia group pre-1900s but if nothing else, I believe their work has created a new concensus among many critical people that there were at least three Families active simultaneous to Morello's time as boss.

I enjoyed reading what you had to say though.

... and besides, we all know the first Family was in Buffalo and it will also be the last under King Todaro VIII.

For the record, between the two, I found it more believable that Lupo had his own organization than his was a continuation of Taranto's. And I agree there were three families during the Morello's time as boss. The clear lines of succession simply don't seem to start, from what I can tell, until or after Morello.

My point is youve already lost the Buffalo debate. Proof has already come out that it is still operating whether you play semantics with the evidence or not whether it reaches your metrics threshold or not. Youre just mad everyone on here doesnt agree with your belief the latest developments are simply superficial. If nothing else ever comes out in the way of busts or evidence it doesnt matter, we are in the present, talking about the present. Attrition, that you so vehemently use as the decline of the Mafia will indeed get the best of Buffalo as it has helped reduce size and power of all in the last 30 years. But Buffalo is still throwing punches, and in the fight. Sorry man, it just is what it is.

Except the present info doesn't support your conclusions. No more than the 2006 bust and ScottB's inflated charts supported people's claims about the Detroit LCN a decade ago. It's why you guys are constantly throwing out "could be's" in your argument. The Buffalo is alive theory is a "Weekend at Bernies" proposition you have to continually prop up with speculation and misinterpreted facts. This is apparently something that some here are only going to be able to understand in hindsight. Though it should be as clear as day to anyone who actually follows this stuff beyond a superficial level.

[Newyorkempire]

Wiseguy -- I appreciated reading your rationale about the early stuff. Not going to play third wheel to it, but I agree with a couple of your general points, especially regarding the limits of evidence back then.

I do believe AL/CC/Lennert found substantial evidence Lupo was the rappresentante of what's now the Gambino Family and other info has surfaced since then that reinforces it. I have my own reservations about who the boss (or bosses) were pre-1900, but I do believe they found evidence/indications of organized mafia groups in NYC pre-1900s and indications of continuity (i.e. these weren't random blips that died out). Interestingly they didn't find evidence of a Corleonesi NYC mafia group pre-1900s but if nothing else, I believe their work has created a new concensus among many critical people that there were at least three Families active simultaneous to Morello's time as boss.

I enjoyed reading what you had to say though.

... and besides, we all know the first Family was in Buffalo and it will also be the last under King Todaro VIII.

For the record, between the two, I found it more believable that Lupo had his own organization than his was a continuation of Taranto's. And I agree there were three families during the Morello's time as boss. The clear lines of succession simply don't seem to start, from what I can tell, until or after Morello.

My point is youve already lost the Buffalo debate. Proof has already come out that it is still operating whether you play semantics with the evidence or not whether it reaches your metrics threshold or not. Youre just mad everyone on here doesnt agree with your belief the latest developments are simply superficial. If nothing else ever comes out in the way of busts or evidence it doesnt matter, we are in the present, talking about the present. Attrition, that you so vehemently use as the decline of the Mafia will indeed get the best of Buffalo as it has helped reduce size and power of all in the last 30 years. But Buffalo is still throwing punches, and in the fight. Sorry man, it just is what it is.

Except the present info doesn't support your conclusions. No more than the 2006 bust and ScottB's inflated charts supported people's claims about the Detroit LCN a decade ago. It's why you guys are constantly throwing out "could be's" in your argument. The Buffalo is alive theory is a "Weekend at Bernies" proposition you have to continually prop up with speculation and misinterpreted facts. This is apparently something that some here are only going to be able to understand in hindsight. Though it should be as clear as day to anyone who actually follows this stuff beyond a superficial level.

Dont you dare bring Weekend at Bernie's into your argument. That was a classic not too be tortured by your semantics.

[NickleCity]

Except the present info doesn't support your conclusions. No more than the 2006 bust and ScottB's inflated charts supported people's claims about the Detroit LCN a decade ago. It's why you guys are constantly throwing out "could be's" in your argument. The Buffalo is alive theory is a "Weekend at Bernies" proposition you have to continually prop up with speculation and misinterpreted facts. This is apparently something that some here are only going to be able to understand in hindsight. Though it should be as clear as day to anyone who actually follows this stuff beyond a superficial level.

My bet? In hindsight people are going to think more like this: