Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

[Newyorkempire]

Who represents this conventional wisdom? Mike Dash? Which evidence are you referring to? You are certainly welcome to have your own opinion, so I'm asking just out of curiosity.

I mean the conventional wisdom in the sense of the Genovese family being the oldest has been the traditional or most commonly-held view.

Your wisdom is so helpful. If only you knew what you were talking about we might believe your contradictory metrics.

Putting false modesty aside in this case, I've forgotten more about the mob than you'll ever know. That's what is so obnoxious about you. You're like a 5 year old pretending to be grown up and butting into adult conversations, acting like you know whereof you speak or actually have something of substance to say.

If true, it would also show the LA family to not be extinct like many posters believe.

It would show nothing of the sort, but the fact you even entertain the possibility the LA family is still around only confirms everything I've said about you. You're a fanboy of the worst kind. I mean, seriously. Los Angeles? In 2022? You are a child. Grow the hell up.

I love how upset you get. All the way from Utah, you really know whats going on in the world of OC. I cant believe more people dont believe you outright. Keep trying "Wise"guy, only a few more replies and I will agree with all your contradictory metrics and theories. When is your book coming out?

[Newyorkempire]

You know shit about the Mafia. You know what youve read, copied then pasted. Past that, you can beat your chest and scream louder, your bullying wouldnt work in person and its sure doesnt work on a forum. Youd be the quietest one in the room if we were in person and set in your place real quick. Youre not as smart as you think you are. I admire your incessant mental illness however. Stand tall.

[Newyorkempire]

And yes, if a family is in fact making guys then it wouldnt be extinct. Because it would be recognized. Is it the same organization from years past? No. If it is fact true that Iavarone was made into it then it exists. I know this is a hard reality for you too grasp but follow along with logic based in the evidence that is given.

[Wiseguy]

And yes, if a family is in fact making guys then it wouldnt be extinct. Because it would be recognized. Is it the same organization from years past? No. If it is fact true that Iavarone was made into it then it exists. I know this is a hard reality for you too grasp but follow along with logic based in the evidence that is given.

I do follow the evidence. And - here's the key - I understand it. There's no shortage of people here who follow the evidence but don't interpret it correctly, you included.

But, as I keep saying, this exact same thing happened before with Detroit. A lot of people 10-15 years ago insisting there was still a 30, 40+ member family there. Where are they now?

This Buffalo thing will die out. You'll sneak away. Others will lay low and pretend these debates never took place. Once again, it's all over but the crying.

[Moscone65]

And yes, if a family is in fact making guys then it wouldnt be extinct. Because it would be recognized. Is it the same organization from years past? No. If it is fact true that Iavarone was made into it then it exists. I know this is a hard reality for you too grasp but follow along with logic based in the evidence that is given.

I do follow the evidence. And - here's the key - I understand it. There's no shortage of people here who follow the evidence but don't interpret it correctly, you included.

But, as I keep saying, this exact same thing happened before with Detroit. A lot of people 10-15 years ago insisting there was still a 30, 40+ member family there. Where are they now?

This Buffalo thing will die out. You'll sneak away. Others will lay low and pretend these debates never took place. Once again, it's all over but the crying.

Just curious as to your opinion on where these rumours are coming from. Do you think it’s a possibility that he was made in “LA” by a faction of the gambinos regardless of the state of the family there, or do you think the whole thing is bullshit?

[Newyorkempire]

And yes, if a family is in fact making guys then it wouldnt be extinct. Because it would be recognized. Is it the same organization from years past? No. If it is fact true that Iavarone was made into it then it exists. I know this is a hard reality for you too grasp but follow along with logic based in the evidence that is given.

I do follow the evidence. And - here's the key - I understand it. There's no shortage of people here who follow the evidence but don't interpret it correctly, you included.

But, as I keep saying, this exact same thing happened before with Detroit. A lot of people 10-15 years ago insisting there was still a 30, 40+ member family there. Where are they now?

This Buffalo thing will die out. You'll sneak away. Others will lay low and pretend these debates never took place. Once again, it's all over but the crying.

No one is sneaking away. The Buffalo "thing" is a thing that's why its in the hands of the FBI and supported by countless journalists and articles. Just because you think youre the boss doesnt make you the boss. Youre not as smart as you think you are. People like you have already been proven wrong about Buffalo based on the latest developments alone. Youre lost but I understand.

[Newyorkempire]

And yes, if a family is in fact making guys then it wouldnt be extinct. Because it would be recognized. Is it the same organization from years past? No. If it is fact true that Iavarone was made into it then it exists. I know this is a hard reality for you too grasp but follow along with logic based in the evidence that is given.

I do follow the evidence. And - here's the key - I understand it. There's no shortage of people here who follow the evidence but don't interpret it correctly, you included.

But, as I keep saying, this exact same thing happened before with Detroit. A lot of people 10-15 years ago insisting there was still a 30, 40+ member family there. Where are they now?

This Buffalo thing will die out. You'll sneak away. Others will lay low and pretend these debates never took place. Once again, it's all over but the crying.

Just because you say that a family is gone, specifically Detroit. Doesnt mean they are. Scott says they are over 20+. With a boss, captains and everything. I don't think he has bogus sources. I think you desperately needed families to disappear in order to further your own self appointed expert notion you have of yourself and the only way to do that is to discredit others. Personally, I think youre as foolish as you tell every one else that they are. Now what? Round and round and you still dont get it.

[Antiliar]

Who represents this conventional wisdom? Mike Dash? Which evidence are you referring to? You are certainly welcome to have your own opinion, so I'm asking just out of curiosity.

I mean the conventional wisdom in the sense of the Genovese family being the oldest has been the traditional or most commonly-held view.

That's a dodge you wouldn't let others get away with. Aside from Mike Dash's book The First Family, who represents this tradition? Even Dash has an open mind toward other possibilities if the evidence supports it. What evidence do you have to support your view over the one we presented in our article?

[Pogo The Clown]

I've never read the Dash book but I know that view predates the book by decades.


Pogo

[Antiliar]

I've never read the Dash book but I know that view predates the book by decades.


Pogo

Yet still no citations. If we go back to Joe Valachi in Peter Maas's book The Valachi Papers in 1968 (and his 1963 Senate testimony), "Peter" Morello was the Boss of Bosses and a contemporary of Masseria, Reina and Maranzano. They also had a age wrong. Nothing in there about Giuseppe Morello being the first boss.

[Pogo The Clown]

I don't know about being the first Boss but I know when I started on the forums in the late 1990s the conventional view was that the group he headed was the oldest of the NY 5. That view no doubt goes back even further than that. So it predates the Dash book (unless you are talking about a different book) which was published in 2009.


Pogo

[Confederate]

Who represents this conventional wisdom? Mike Dash? Which evidence are you referring to? You are certainly welcome to have your own opinion, so I'm asking just out of curiosity.

I mean the conventional wisdom in the sense of the Genovese family being the oldest has been the traditional or most commonly-held view.

That's a dodge you wouldn't let others get away with. Aside from Mike Dash's book The First Family, who represents this tradition? Even Dash has an open mind toward other possibilities if the evidence supports it. What evidence do you have to support your view over the one we presented in our article?

I thought the FIRST Family in America was in Dixie, New Orleans? No?

[B.]

Not everyone agrees or interprets everything the same way, but it's clear there's a divide between a couple members here vs. everyone else on virtually every aspect of the organization through every single era. Wouldn't be surprised if the next debate revolves around whether the mafia exists at all.

[Antiliar]

Who represents this conventional wisdom? Mike Dash? Which evidence are you referring to? You are certainly welcome to have your own opinion, so I'm asking just out of curiosity.

I mean the conventional wisdom in the sense of the Genovese family being the oldest has been the traditional or most commonly-held view.

That's a dodge you wouldn't let others get away with. Aside from Mike Dash's book The First Family, who represents this tradition? Even Dash has an open mind toward other possibilities if the evidence supports it. What evidence do you have to support your view over the one we presented in our article?

I thought the FIRST Family in America was in Dixie, New Orleans? No?

You're correct. New Orleans was the original Mafia borgata in America. The question is which was the first in New York. Angelo, Lennert and myself concluded that it's the Gambinos. Wiseguy and apparently Pogo think it's the Genovese.

[B.]

Even if Morello was the first Family (which isn't current "conventional" wisdom to me) it could be argued that it wasn't the Genovese. A majority of the original Corleonesi may have belonged to the Lucchese Family when they split though details are open to interpretation given we don't have a full membership list for each group. If Joe Bonanno had been allowed to join a different Family with his core loyalists in 1964 and regained rank for example it wouldn't truly be the "Bonanno Family" as we know it.

"Genovese/Lucchese" for the Morello Family seems like the most reasonable approach. I know you guys agree with that, just want to make it clear to anyone interested there's not really "conventional wisdom" that Morello Family = definitively Genovese.