General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

[PolackTony]

Michael Cataudella was represented in this case by Outfit lawyer Michael Brodkin and sentenced to 5 years. He was then murdered in 1969 in what CPD told the Tribune they suspected was a hit by "syndicate" gunmen.

I've heard of cases where the Outfit used their lawyers or tried to bribe judges to get guys off so they could kill them on the streets. Jose Fosco told the story of the Outfit bosses trying to bribe a judge in the case of Ralph Nappi's killer in the 1940s, but the judge didn't take the bribe and the killer was sent to prison, but was saved from Mob vengeance. It would be easy to conclude that Outfit attorneys only represent Outfit clients, but that's not always the case.

Good info and that certainly isn’t surprising.

[PolackTony]

I recall the talk was that Rocky was not particularly well liked by the powers that be in the 60s and 70s.

He did deal in drugs back then, so I'm sure that didn't help with Ricca and Accardo.

Yes and this may be why he wasn’t made until later. I believe that by the 80s those drug connections were no longer the liability they once were.

[Patrickgold]

Not sure if this has been posted before, but Very interesting interview with Markus Funk about the family secret trials. Besides talking about the family secrets trial, He talks about his thoughts on the current status of the Outfit, where all the Outfit money went and the difference between NYC and Chicago LCN. Link below to interview, both audio and typed interview.

https://legaltalknetwork.com/podcasts/c ... go-outfit/

[SolarSolano]

Good podcast, but give me a fucking break - not sure Family Secrets was the most significant blow to the Outfit since Capone, given half the defendents were already dead, or in prison and not on the street. The investigations of the DiFronzo and Carlisi / Infelise crews were far more impactful from my view.

That said the podcast is excellent - I just wish they were more honest about Family Secrets.

[Patrickgold]

Good podcast, but give me a fucking break - not sure Family Secrets was the most significant blow to the Outfit since Capone, given half the defendents were already dead, or in prison and not on the street. The investigations of the DiFronzo and Carlisi / Infelise crews were far more impactful from my view.

That said the podcast is excellent - I just wish they were more honest about Family Secrets.

Yes, I definitely agree. Strawman was definitely more impactful too. Family Secrets was like a beating a dog that was already down.

[SolarSolano]

Good podcast, but give me a fucking break - not sure Family Secrets was the most significant blow to the Outfit since Capone, given half the defendents were already dead, or in prison and not on the street. The investigations of the DiFronzo and Carlisi / Infelise crews were far more impactful from my view.

That said the podcast is excellent - I just wish they were more honest about Family Secrets.

Yes, I definitely agree. Strawman was definitely more impactful too. Family Secrets was like a beating a dog that was already down.

Personally, I think Family Secrets showed how slick the Outfit became - because they were so insulated from one another, they couldn't touch anyone active with any power on the street - maybe Nick Ferriola and that is a stretch. I don't buy the shit about DiFronzo dry snitching and all that - I think they just didn't have enough beyond Nick C tying him to anything.

Now if they are being run today by a bunch of junkies out of a pawnshop on Roosevelt, I'm going to change my mind

[Snakes]

Jimmy Marcello was definitely the largest catch in Family Secrets. Strawman, the Ferriola/Infelise crew bust, and the Carlisi crew bust were probably the three most damaging.

[Coloboy]

Yeah I've read that over and over again, family secrets was the "death blow" to the Chicago mob......whatever, it sounds good and sold papers at the time.

Marcello was far and away the biggest catch, followed by Lombardo. Obviously Grand Ave was set up to run fine without Lombardo though as we saw in recent years. Marcello being removed from the street most certainly led to some "speedbumps", including the murder of a high ranking made member in Zizzo. Other than that, business rolled on.

Most of the Difronzo bashing over the last 10 years came exclusively from Joe Fosco and Mike Magnaffichi. In my opinion, difronzo did what he had to do to keep the thing running in the 2000's. Meaning going back underground, less risky behavior, back to the old ways. Also seems he wasn't shy about shelving folks he though were fuck ups and could cause problems like Magnaffichi. I get the sense that if you were a liablity that could potentially put people in jail or lose people money, you quickly became persona non-grata in the Difronzo era outfit.

[Snakes]

To go back to Antilar's Fosco posts, I know Fosco had contacts but he is really the only source for Rocky Infelise being Outfit boss. Nick C and Lenny Patrick never said anything about it (to my knowledge) and all the files I've seen don't mention it. Maybe he was an acting #2 for a brief period for DiFronzo when Carlisi moved to Florida but I don't think he was ever number one.

Also, Fosco saying "the government got it wrong as usual" is exactly the type of shit we frown upon around here when other people throw it out. Sure, Fosco was connected but him saying that is kind of eye-rolling, at least to me. I do think Centracchio had less influence on those western suburbs than was originally believed. He may have had some routes and stops that he collected from in that area, but most of that territory would have fallen under Melrose Park (which, granted, was pretty weak at that time). Centracchio was named in a few files as boss of GA, so he was definitely a guy with clout, although I'm not sure he had as much influence over that territory as the indictment seemed to imply. I also realize that the territories were fluid, with made guys operating across the city, but there were definitely still "home bases" for each crew, so to speak.

[Patrickgold]

I thought this part was the most interesting part of the podcast:


Jonathan Amarilio: I know we’re running a little bit tight on time, but I said at the top of the podcast that this was the case that took down the Chicago Outfit. You corrected me on that and said they’re still around, which absolutely, that’s true but in a much reduced capacity. What do you know about the current condition of the Outfit in Chicago? I mean, this trial took down a large part of their leadership. Where are they today as an organization?

Markus Funk: Well, look, I mean, there are still people out there pursuing these cases. (00:59:08) and the Chicago US Attorney’s Office is really first among equals in that regard. In terms of him getting involved in mob cases. I don’t know exactly what the state of play is now. I can tell you my sense of things just based on where things stood way back when is that in terms of numbers, the Chicago mob is not what it once was. In terms of power, they’re not what it once were.

But one can’t lose sight of, for example, John Ambrose. John Ambrose, a decorated US Marshal, head of the fugitive task force, the Great Lakes Fugitive Task Force. He end up getting swept up in this thing because he had mob ties and he ultimately was informing the mob about the whereabouts of Nick Calabrese, when at the time Nick Calabrese was the country’s most secured cooperator, most secured WITSEC person, cooperator and nonetheless, days later, the mob knew where he was, what he was looking at.

(01:00:03)

And the reason I bring that example up is the one thing that the mob was able to do then and is still able to do now is infiltrate the higher ranks of civil society, of the judiciary, of law enforcement, of the political arena. In other words, they have their tentacles in at a level so far above what, let’s say, street criminals can do. So, it’s true. If you walk around Chicago and you read this terrifying and horrifying statistics about murders, it’s unbelievable what’s happening, but these people who commit those murders typically don’t have access like the mobsters do.

They’re street criminals. They have a lot of power. They can terrorize people but they don’t have access to high-ranking political figures. The mob, in my estimation, did and still does have that power. I think they’re a little bit like a sleeping giant. You have to sort of — it would be a big folly, I think, and I know I’m channeling Mitch Mars and John Scully and everyone else who worked his cases, it’s a great folly to count them out.

Just because we did this case and just because these guys are old and just because you don’t see them walking around and driving Cadillacs and wearing fur coats, doesn’t mean that they’re somehow not there anymore. They’re organized crime, influence in Chicago is still there and it’s just taken on a different form and maybe a little more dormant now than it once was. But again, it would be a great mistake to underestimate them.

Jonathan Amarilio: Where did all the money go? I mean, it seems to me that we’re talking about one of the most notorious Mafia organizations in the world. They’re shaking down a large part of Chicago. They’re taking street taxes, they’re skimming from unions, they’re running illegal gambling operations. As I said before, they’re running a casino in Las Vegas, but when you look at where these guys lived, they sort of lived these middle-class lifestyles. They weren’t taking private jets to Barbados every weekend or anything like that. It doesn’t seem to reflect the illicit fortunes that they must have been generating. What happens to all that money after cases like this?

Markus Funk: They were playing a long game. I mean, one of the big differences, and this is something I really only learned by doing this case between, let’s say, New York, the five families and the Chicago Outfit is, in New York, it’s very much like you’re in England. If you’re Prince William or whoever, you’re a certain lineage in the throne on the ascendancy to be king. And so, it’s not a meritocracy. In other words, if you’re a banana or your chances — you work your way up within your family.

But as we know from England, as we know from New York, that doesn’t necessarily bring the smartest and best people to the top. And so, in Chicago was much more like a McDonald’s where you work your way up. It doesn’t matter — Al Capone, if your last name is Capone, none of that matters. What matters is sort of how you perform and how hard you work.

And so, in Chicago you made your way up the hierarchy in more of a meritocracy fashion. The result of that is that most of the people at the top, their kids go to law school, medical school, they go into legitimate businesses, they inherit your money. Half of them don’t even know where the money really came from and they just build their house and their life and it’s totally gone. It’s essentially like money laundering one way. Like you just taken the money instead of taking it and flowing it back to organized crime, you’re taking the ill-gotten gains and they flow out into legitimate lifestyles and lives and then they just dissipate into the ether, so to speak.

And so, other than Calabrese, you generally, not always, but generally look in vain in Chicago to find a dynasty, a name where the kid, the grandkid, the son, everyone’s involved in organized crime. Typically, the goal is make your money, work hard. You’re going to be a mobster your whole life, but then your kids will have a better life. That’s sort of how it kind of shaked out. And that’s, I think, where a lot of the money is. In other words, I don’t think these people necessarily know that their father or uncle or great-grandfather was some sort of a murderer. They might have heard that on the streets a little bit, but that money is gone and it’s not in some big pot of criminal dollars.

[funkster]

I think that's a very good way to put it. Haven't listened yet, so it's from December?

[Patrickgold]

I think that's a very good way to put it. Haven't listened yet, so it's from December?

Yes, December

[funkster]

I didnt realize Funk was so young until I looked to see what he was doing these days.

[Patrickgold]

I didnt realize Funk was so young until I looked to see what he was doing these days.

Yep and he’s the only one left. Scully and Mars both died

[Snakes]

Anyone know anything about a Ricky Nitti (Melrose Park) and if he is any relation to Jason Nitti? Along with Vincent Sabello Jr. (son of a CPD internal affairs officer) and Michael Berendt, Nitti participated in the murder of a Louis D'Avolio in late 1983. Nitti and Berendt testified against Sabello (the shooter) and were spared prison sentences.