General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

[Patrickgold]

He's a good dude, he's extremely responsive and will gladly answer questions sent to him as I have done on occasion. Interesting tidbit on the drug stuff Tony. He doesn't seem overly interested in the crew designation debate fwiw, doesnt think much has changed in that regard from what I can tell.

I recently contacted him to get his opinion on the Outfit and he said that he would say that the Outfit has 30 members and 4 crews. He also said that there is certainly younger members and lots of associates that will keep the Outfit going in the future. The fact that their leaders all tend to be old gives the impression that the Outfit is dying off.

[Patrickgold]

Interesting new article about a former Chicago bookie

https://chicago.suntimes.com/sports-sat ... iqlnlr0NAU

[PolackTony]

Interesting new article about a former Chicago bookie

https://chicago.suntimes.com/sports-sat ... iqlnlr0NAU

Great article.

I wasn’t aware that the Spilotros ever lived in Greektown. I had them as living on Grand and then moving farther out to Galewood. Did they actually live in Greektown at some point?

Also, was it ever confirmed here on the forum that LaValley was clipped in 2009? I recall that his murder was still an unproven rumor, but maybe I’m forgetting something at the moment. If the sources who provided this info are correct, than that should be added to the list of suspected Outfit hits since 2000 for sure.

[Patrickgold]

Interesting new article about a former Chicago bookie

https://chicago.suntimes.com/sports-sat ... iqlnlr0NAU

Great article.

I wasn’t aware that the Spilotros ever lived in Greektown. I had them as living on Grand and then moving farther out to Galewood. Did they actually live in Greektown at some point?

Also, was it ever confirmed here on the forum that LaValley was clipped in 2009? I recall that his murder was still an unproven rumor, but maybe I’m forgetting something at the moment. If the sources who provided this info are correct, than that should be added to the list of suspected Outfit hits since 2000 for sure.

Tony, those were the exact same questions I had when I read the article. Was never aware that the Spilotros grew up in Greektown. Not sure if that was true. Maybe they lived there for a little bit before moving to grand and Ogden. Didn’t Culotta do a virtual video where he pointed out where the spilotros lived on google maps and it was on grand and Ogden. I will have to rewatch the video. The building this guy is claiming they grew up was the Jackson Hotel which was operating up until about 8 or so years ago and was basically a flop house. That all night Gyro place was also there.

Also, there was always rumors about Lavalley being clipped. I think the official record of it was suicide. Maybe I’m wrong about that. A couple of other Outfit informants met the same fate and people said it was rumors they were clipped when it was listed as suicide. Those guys being Jesse Stoneking and Thomas Venezia, both from the East St Louis faction of the Outfit. I can see the feds covering it up or ignoring it. It doesn’t look good when an informant winds of dead and it is basically their fault.

[Snakes]

There were a couple of other mistakes in the video (Joe Spa did not die in prison, for one), but I'm chalking that up to this guy's memory slipping, as opposed to outright bullshitting.

[Patrickgold]

There were a couple of other mistakes in the video (Joe Spa did not die in prison, for one), but I'm chalking that up to this guy's memory slipping, as opposed to outright bullshitting.

Also this guy was a low level associate. He was able to leave the Outfit because he was not part of it. He was a bookie. His knowledge into the workings of the Outfit was obviously very limited.

[funkster]

He's a good dude, he's extremely responsive and will gladly answer questions sent to him as I have done on occasion. Interesting tidbit on the drug stuff Tony. He doesn't seem overly interested in the crew designation debate fwiw, doesnt think much has changed in that regard from what I can tell.

I recently contacted him to get his opinion on the Outfit and he said that he would say that the Outfit has 30 members and 4 crews. He also said that there is certainly younger members and lots of associates that will keep the Outfit going in the future. The fact that their leaders all tend to be old gives the impression that the Outfit is dying off.

I wonder if his impression is that the higher ups are the only ones getting made these days. The true upper echelon or if they are simply keeping it streamlined. For what it is worth, I asked him his thoughts on Elmwood Park and he said he finds it hard to believe it is not still a crew.

[PolackTony]

He's a good dude, he's extremely responsive and will gladly answer questions sent to him as I have done on occasion. Interesting tidbit on the drug stuff Tony. He doesn't seem overly interested in the crew designation debate fwiw, doesnt think much has changed in that regard from what I can tell.

I recently contacted him to get his opinion on the Outfit and he said that he would say that the Outfit has 30 members and 4 crews. He also said that there is certainly younger members and lots of associates that will keep the Outfit going in the future. The fact that their leaders all tend to be old gives the impression that the Outfit is dying off.

I wonder if his impression is that the higher ups are the only ones getting made these days. The true upper echelon or if they are simply keeping it streamlined. For what it is worth, I asked him his thoughts on Elmwood Park and he said he finds it hard to believe it is not still a crew.

“Hard to believe” is not the same thing as having info on the question, of course. On the drug thing he told me that his opinion was based on contacts in LE. Personally, I find it hard to believe that the Outfit hasn’t made any guys in 30 years, but I don’t have any source of information to support that.

[funkster]

He's a good dude, he's extremely responsive and will gladly answer questions sent to him as I have done on occasion. Interesting tidbit on the drug stuff Tony. He doesn't seem overly interested in the crew designation debate fwiw, doesnt think much has changed in that regard from what I can tell.

I recently contacted him to get his opinion on the Outfit and he said that he would say that the Outfit has 30 members and 4 crews. He also said that there is certainly younger members and lots of associates that will keep the Outfit going in the future. The fact that their leaders all tend to be old gives the impression that the Outfit is dying off.

I wonder if his impression is that the higher ups are the only ones getting made these days. The true upper echelon or if they are simply keeping it streamlined. For what it is worth, I asked him his thoughts on Elmwood Park and he said he finds it hard to believe it is not still a crew.

“Hard to believe” is not the same thing as having info on the question, of course. On the drug thing he told me that his opinion was based on contacts in LE. Personally, I find it hard to believe that the Outfit hasn’t made any guys in 30 years, but I don’t have any source of information to support that.

Of course, it's his opinion but i hold his opinion higher than most. It was vague, but he did say "nothing has been put out by the authorities" which i assume means thats partially what forms his opinion on it.

I do find it strange that none of these big mob pods have ever asked him on.

[Snakes]

He's a good dude, he's extremely responsive and will gladly answer questions sent to him as I have done on occasion. Interesting tidbit on the drug stuff Tony. He doesn't seem overly interested in the crew designation debate fwiw, doesnt think much has changed in that regard from what I can tell.

I recently contacted him to get his opinion on the Outfit and he said that he would say that the Outfit has 30 members and 4 crews. He also said that there is certainly younger members and lots of associates that will keep the Outfit going in the future. The fact that their leaders all tend to be old gives the impression that the Outfit is dying off.

I wonder if his impression is that the higher ups are the only ones getting made these days. The true upper echelon or if they are simply keeping it streamlined. For what it is worth, I asked him his thoughts on Elmwood Park and he said he finds it hard to believe it is not still a crew.

“Hard to believe” is not the same thing as having info on the question, of course. On the drug thing he told me that his opinion was based on contacts in LE. Personally, I find it hard to believe that the Outfit hasn’t made any guys in 30 years, but I don’t have any source of information to support that.

Of course, it's his opinion but i hold his opinion higher than most. It was vague, but he did say "nothing has been put out by the authorities" which i assume means thats partially what forms his opinion on it.

I do find it strange that none of these big mob pods have ever asked him on.

Probably because he won't just make shit up and blow smoke about how "low key" and "powerful" the Outfit still is.

[PolackTony]

He's a good dude, he's extremely responsive and will gladly answer questions sent to him as I have done on occasion. Interesting tidbit on the drug stuff Tony. He doesn't seem overly interested in the crew designation debate fwiw, doesnt think much has changed in that regard from what I can tell.

I recently contacted him to get his opinion on the Outfit and he said that he would say that the Outfit has 30 members and 4 crews. He also said that there is certainly younger members and lots of associates that will keep the Outfit going in the future. The fact that their leaders all tend to be old gives the impression that the Outfit is dying off.

I wonder if his impression is that the higher ups are the only ones getting made these days. The true upper echelon or if they are simply keeping it streamlined. For what it is worth, I asked him his thoughts on Elmwood Park and he said he finds it hard to believe it is not still a crew.

“Hard to believe” is not the same thing as having info on the question, of course. On the drug thing he told me that his opinion was based on contacts in LE. Personally, I find it hard to believe that the Outfit hasn’t made any guys in 30 years, but I don’t have any source of information to support that.

Of course, it's his opinion but i hold his opinion higher than most. It was vague, but he did say "nothing has been put out by the authorities" which i assume means thats partially what forms his opinion on it.

I do find it strange that none of these big mob pods have ever asked him on.

Oh for sure. I value Binder’s input even when it’s just his opinion, which I think is a reasonable, educated opinion. As Snakes notes, he’s not taken to flights of fancy or exaggeration. My belief is along the same lines — that Chicago is a greatly diminished but still viable family.

[funkster]

He's a good dude, he's extremely responsive and will gladly answer questions sent to him as I have done on occasion. Interesting tidbit on the drug stuff Tony. He doesn't seem overly interested in the crew designation debate fwiw, doesnt think much has changed in that regard from what I can tell.

I recently contacted him to get his opinion on the Outfit and he said that he would say that the Outfit has 30 members and 4 crews. He also said that there is certainly younger members and lots of associates that will keep the Outfit going in the future. The fact that their leaders all tend to be old gives the impression that the Outfit is dying off.

I wonder if his impression is that the higher ups are the only ones getting made these days. The true upper echelon or if they are simply keeping it streamlined. For what it is worth, I asked him his thoughts on Elmwood Park and he said he finds it hard to believe it is not still a crew.

“Hard to believe” is not the same thing as having info on the question, of course. On the drug thing he told me that his opinion was based on contacts in LE. Personally, I find it hard to believe that the Outfit hasn’t made any guys in 30 years, but I don’t have any source of information to support that.

Of course, it's his opinion but i hold his opinion higher than most. It was vague, but he did say "nothing has been put out by the authorities" which i assume means thats partially what forms his opinion on it.

I do find it strange that none of these big mob pods have ever asked him on.

Probably because he won't just make shit up and blow smoke about how "low key" and "powerful" the Outfit still is.

Could be. Also not clear that anyone who doesnt follow the Outfit really knows who he is. He's pretty mellow.

[Coloboy]

My impression of Binder is that he is one of the most knowledgeable and reliable in terms of outfit history, particularly the Capone era. If you review his Facebook page and articles that is the time period he focuses on the most. I do not get the impression he is extremely up-to-date on the current outfit.

There are people on this board who have much more intricate knowledge of crew structures, who was the boss at certain times, etc. It has surprised me a few times at how generic his knowledge is in that regard. He is a historian first and foremost.

[Snakes]

My impression of Binder is that he is one of the most knowledgeable and reliable in terms of outfit history, particularly the Capone era. If you review his Facebook page and articles that is the time period he focuses on the most. I do not get the impression he is extremely up-to-date on the current outfit.

There are people on this board who have much more intricate knowledge of crew structures, who was the boss at certain times, etc. It has surprised me a few times at how generic his knowledge is in that regard. He is a historian first and foremost.

This is fairly accurate. I have spoken with him on the phone before and did not get the impression that he viewed the Outfit as an LCN family. His historical knowledge is first-rate, though.

[Coloboy]

In the interest of stimulating conversation, I'm going to share some personal anecdotes on the current outfit. Take it for it is, I have nothing to prove here, just thought it may be interesting to share a perspective.

My grandfather is 90 years old, 1st generation Italian American, grew up around Grand Ave, and currently still resides in his home in Elmwood Park, where he has lived for the past 60 years. Refuses to move out. He has breakfast every Sunday with a group of "old timers"...all Italians, and has always been socially connected to outfit figures. He was the one who stimulated my interest in the outfit, and eventually led me to sites like this one. He still has a bookie, if that helps you visualize the kind of guy we are talking about. Never was an outfit guy, but knew D'Amico, Joey Lombardo, and a few others socially. I pick his brain all the time, mostly on older stuff. Calls them "mustaches" when referring to outfit guys.

His take on the current outfit is that they are "mostly legit", but they are still around. Says the real outfit guys all own several businesses like restaurants, construction companies, car washes, real estate, insurance companies, etc. The young guys and associates are the ones directly doing the remaining illegal work like bookmaking, loan sharking, credit card scams, extortion, etc. The "legit" made guys finance much of it, and get kicked up to. He even calls it a "Wop Business Club" jokingly. They all lend money to each other, invest in businesses, etc. Says there will always be an outfit because there are always at least some young guys who want to make a quick buck.

Essentially it seems to me that there is a small core group of made men left, who on the surface operate legit biz, but still profit from and finance illegal activities. The young guys do most of that type of activity and strive to get to the level of the older made guys. Violence seems to be way less common, but of course I'm sure there are pockets still capable.

It my educated guess that they are still making guys every once in a while. I would not be surprised if it was a situation where once you are made, you are essentially a partner in the "club", getting a small piece of everyone's businesses. Could be one of the reasons they are so careful about who gets brought in.

Having lived in EP for most of his life, he was an acquaintance of DIfronzo as well. Says that he was the #1 boss from the early 90's through early 2010's before the Alzheimer's crippled him. Says basically everyone who is the know in the area was aware of that and that is was un-questioned.